The unofficial Obamacare thread...

[caf]

Wow man.

Well, when o-care collapses because it's inherently unsustainable, everyone will have equal health coverage...

None.

That's when Dems are happy. When everyone is equally miserable.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Well, when o-care collapses because it's inherently unsustainable, everyone will have equal health coverage...

None.

That's when Dems are happy. When everyone is equally miserable.

The problem is the "do something" mentality. We have a problem, and because of the belief that we must "do something", we accept crappy ideas because they are better than "doing nothing." But that's not always true. The status quo (or status quo ante) is often better than a bad plan.

I'm willing to support a health care bill that provides government support for people with disabling medical conditions. Also willing to consider ideas about drug prices. But the ACA is a horrible bill on a bunch of levels. It creates a bunch of market distortions that lead to the inevitable gaming/work arounds, so you get a slew of unintended negative consequences.

Just in my tiny corner of the world, I have about 200 employees who make a dollar an hour less because of Obamacare. And they don't get any health care or coverage in return. They just get screwed by the law.

A core cost driver is that our system encourages highly expensive medical improvements on the margin, that don't provide a benefit commensurate with their additional cost. That jacks up costs and makes insurance much more expensive than it needs to be. We need to consider and address that problem if we really wish to improve the system.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

It's not your problem until it is. That is the country we live in. It's so strange to say it. I can't even think about living in a world where I don't think about how other people are affected. Even when it comes to healthcare I think of healthy people and how their lives might change under a universal system. But I don't see the same offered to people like myself. All I ever hear when I bring up people born with disabilities is, Oh I don't mind paying for people like you. But then they will vote for shit that will directly effect me.

Really at the end of the day I don't want you to pay for me, I want you to take the burden off of my shoulders so I can be free to have a job and get the care I need if the call should arise.

I just want to say that not supporting the ACA does not mean I believe an alternative should ignore people in your situation. It shouldn't.

 

[Cavatt]

I just want to say that not supporting the ACA does not mean I believe an alternative should ignore people in your situation. It shouldn't.

You just said you were prepared to pay the human cost, and then said he shouldnt be ignored. That is the cost. What don't you understand about that?

Cavman specifically has to not work to get his health covered. It's pretty easy

 

[Cratylus]

Just in my tiny corner of the world, I have about 200 employees who make a dollar an hour less because of Obamacare. And they don't get any health care or coverage in return. They just get screwed by the law.

Dude, c'mon. Your employees are just doing their part to help those less fortunate than they are and to personally contribute to this glorious thing we call America. It is a privilege to give to help others, not a burden. Why are you Republicans always so anti-people and anti-sympathy? Have you no heart? Do you want poor people to die in the streets? Do you want the disabled to suffer and die because hospitals refuse to treat them? Oh, wait...

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

You just said you were prepared to pay the human cost, and then said he shouldnt be ignored. That is the cost. What don't you understand about that?

You apparently didn't read my entire post. You read only the first sentence, made an assumption based on your own biases, and then leapt to a flawed conclusion. Why don't you go back and read the whole thing this time?

 

[DJTJ]

Well, when o-care collapses because it's inherently unsustainable, everyone will have equal health coverage...

None.

That's when Dems are happy. When everyone is equally miserable.

It's not inherently unsustainable; what made it unsustainable moving forward is EO's designed to fail the system because a political party can't get the support to do it without the system crashing.

Hysterical.

 

[cavman]

The problem is the "do something" mentality. We have a problem, and because of the belief that we must "do something", we accept crappy ideas because they are better than "doing nothing." But that's not always true. The status quo (or status quo ante) is often better than a bad plan.

I'm willing to support a health care bill that provides government support for people with disabling medical conditions. Also willing to consider ideas about drug prices. But the ACA is a horrible bill on a bunch of levels. It creates a bunch of market distortions that lead to the inevitable gaming/work arounds, so you get a slew of unintended negative consequences.

Just in my tiny corner of the world, I have about 200 employees who make a dollar an hour less because of Obamacare. And they don't get any health care or coverage in return. They just get screwed by the law.

A core cost driver is that our system encourages highly expensive medical improvements on the margin, that don't provide a benefit commensurate with their additional cost. That jacks up costs and makes insurance much more expensive than it needs to be. We need to consider and address that problem if we really wish to improve the system.

The ACA has not helped people like myself get insurance. It has made getting specialty care for spina bifida worlds better. My issue with medicaid is they give you no clear path to become a productive citizen. You follow the rules and make 400 a month or less or you get off the program. They are even giving me shit about going to school. It's all very frustrating.

 

[Whittaker]

DP

 

[Whittaker]

It has made getting specialty care for spina bifida worlds better.

And that's a big plus for you because of Obamacare.
But will you concede that for many other people Obamacare has been a big minus?

 

[cavman]

And that's a big plus for you because of Obamacare.
But will you concede that for many other people Obamacare has been a big minus? Anecdotal evidence goes both ways.

Absolutely. The ACA lost my support without the public option. I'm not against them reworking it. I do worry about losing some of the protections it provides.

 

[Cavatt]

You apparently didn't read my entire post. You read only the first sentence, made an assumption based on your own biases, and then leapt to a flawed conclusion. Why don't you go back and read the whole thing this time?

I read it. I think you are ideologically committed to making life worse for Cavman and all you have for him is to say, "we shouldn't ignore you".

Guys like him are the absolute biggest losers if Republicans get their way. We know this and he knows this because he has lived it his whole adult life. Many of us have friends or relatives with diabetes if not something worse that has made health are a lifelong burden, when it doesn't have to be.

You are also saying moderates need to fall in line with Hardline right wingers that want to dismantle health insurance for the poorest Americans so they can go back to treating their chronic health conditions at the emergency room ruining them financially when they can no longer declare bankruptcy due to medical catastrophe.

We know you want to remove health insurance from workers at this company that apparently can't afford to pay their workers a decent wage or get them a proper health plan so they can... Get an unsubsidized plan on their own which will undoubtedly cost more than what it is costing the company? Good logic

You say the health plan does nothing, but we know it doesn't qualify unless it doesn't have caps and has to include the mandatory list of coverages that have proven to be overwhelmingly popular. *Shrugs* it probably isn't the plan you are used to, but some of us take what we can get so we don't become financially ruined.

We know this company could probably afford a better health plan or give their employees a 1 dollar raise if they weren't paying their lawyer for how many months so far? That lawyer wants to fight for "what is right" meaning hurting a bunch of low wage workers so they can buy their own health care with the extra 2k per year. That buys like what 4 months of insurance tops?

How much money have they paid you so far? Those fees accumulating for months couldn't have gone to raises? Maybe they paid you 50k on the low end? That would give 50 people a .50 raise and they could keep their health insurance. Maybe you are so committed to taking away their insurance that you are working pro Bono.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I read it.

Did you catch this part:

It has driven up costs for a lot of people to the point where they have insurance, but cannot afford actual health care.

That's a human cost.

You say the health plan does nothing, but we know it doesn't qualify unless it doesn't have caps and has to include the mandatory list of coverages that have proven to be overwhelmingly popular.

Doesn't qualify for what? And do you have any clue how MEC skinny plans end up working in practice?

Clearly not.

 

[CommD]

Rather than the Republican-wrought catastrophe you predict, it is also possible that the bi-partisan Senate based effort applying fixes to the ACA market place might be the path chosen by wise leaders in both parties.

If a bill reaches Trump's desk through this process, he just might surprise you and sign it. We all know the key to that is to simply call it 'trump-care' instead of 'obamacare'.

Progress made on the bi-partisan approach; Trump involved:

Bipartisan senators reach small deal on health care

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/17/politics/health-care-csr-payments-deal-reached/index.html

 

[caf]

Gotta feel bad for Gordon Hayward. Just signed a hundred million dollar contract and will probably go bankrupt trying to pay his massive O-care deductible.