The "What are you playing now?" Thread

[Chris]

@gourimoko For the record, I didn't say the sole reason I play games is escapism. A lot of the things you list are why I enjoy video games. Really, it's the same reasons I like movies and books, too. But I don't like politics in my games. I have to hear about Trump and safe spaces and gun control literally every time I turn on any form of media. I don't need to be preached at in a video game.

 

[gourimoko]

From what I've read, the game is too afraid to even confirm the cult is Christian even though it very clearly is.

Right.. that's the nature of the criticism.. the game so obviously tip-toes around the topics so as not to ruffle anyone's feathers without actually asking if that's a good idea, or how that improves the story, or makes it worthwhile...

It has nothing to do with right or left politics; I don't consider cultists ultra-right-wing lunatics representative of "the right," because they're extremists -- just like cultist ultra-left-wing lunatics wouldn't be representative of "the left" .. again, because they're extremists.

But this reflexive need by many on the right to defend all of the right, even the extreme and far-right, is what likely drove Ubisoft to decide it wasn't worth pissing anyone off, even at the cost of the story.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Right.. that's the nature of the criticism.. the game so obviously tip-toes around the topics so as not to ruffle anyone's feathers without actually asking if that's a good idea, or how that improves the story, or makes it worthwhile...

It has nothing to do with right or left politics; I don't consider cultists ultra-right-wing lunatics representative of "the right," because they're extremists -- just like cultist ultra-left-wing lunatics wouldn't be representative of "the left" .. again, because they're extremists.

But this reflexive need by many on the right to defend all of the right, even the extreme and far-right, is what likely drove Ubisoft to decide it wasn't worth pissing anyone off, even at the cost of the story.

I'd contrast Far Cry 5 with a series like GTA. GTA is constantly making sociopolitical statements and poking fun at both the right and left and those games sell better than just about any other series in the industry. I appreciate the satire in GTA and the way it doesn't shy from targeting everyone.

Then again, I think GTA does a lot of that targeting in a way that goes over a lot of peoples' heads, which may be why they so easily get away with it. I'd imagine there are plenty of people who play GTA who don't understand the satire at all.

 

[Chris]

I get it. But it just doesn't really detract from a great game for me. Oh well.

 

[Jack Brickman]

I get it. But it just doesn't really detract from a great game for me. Oh well.

Well, it can detract from the story without detracting from the fun of the game.

 

[Chris]

Who ever bought a Far Cry game for the story?

 

[Jack Brickman]

Who ever bought a Far Cry game for the story?

That's why I consider the direction they took more of a missed opportunity than a game-breaking problem.

But, as I've said, I do think it's at least something worth talking about with the game, so I have no problem with reviews bringing it up. I do agree that docking it significantly for it is stupid, though, as story has never been the main focus of Far Cry.

 

[Chris]

That's why I consider the direction they took more of a missed opportunity than a game-breaking problem.

But, as I've said, I do think it's at least something worth talking about with the game, so I have no problem with reviews bringing it up. I do agree that docking it significantly for it is stupid, though, as story has never been the main focus of Far Cry.

Then we mostly agree.

 

[MRMsix6]

What exactly is the game missing that people are looking for? Is the game not already a caricature of rural, gun-loving, religious right-wingers? Is the player's job not to go around murdering these people? I haven't played the game, so I honestly don't know. But from what I have seen, it seems like a pretty specific fantasy fulfillment for some.

Would it have more narrative heft if there were MAGA hats hidden about the map? (that would actually be pretty funny ) Would that help people get their rocks off?

Who is offended by Far Cry 5 NOT making a political statement about right wing extremism, or any other kind of extremism for that matter?

 

[gourimoko]

You haven't even played the game and are trying to comment on it based on what you read in reviews...

That's right... Your original post was about the reviews and why they docked the game; I'm speaking as to why that makes sense given what so many reviewers have said about the game.

no, it doesn't make a grand political statement, so you are correct in that aspect.

Okay.

But if Wolfenstein's great statement it makes is "Nazis are bad" and that is acceptable, then I think it's fair to say Far Cry says far right religious doomsday cults are bad. But that isn't enough...it has to do more?

I think the argument is that it didn't really do anything. It didn't really expound whatsoever on any of the aspects of the cult so as to avoid controversy. That's the point.

Given your last statement, I'm assuming you played the game and thought it sufficiently spoke to the trouble of religious extremism?

Mmkay. We can agree to disagree.

Curious as to what we're disagreeing about? You don't think video games can or should serve as a vehicle for social commentary like books or movies? Should they be purely general entertainment appealing to the widest audience possible without controversy? I'm honestly asking, not in anyway trying to be facetious -- I'm curious as to your thoughts.

What would you have done with Far Cry 5's story in order to have some deeper meaning, or to say something about right wing extremism? Just curious.

If the setting is Montana, and it's a gun-loving cult that's the antagonist group here; then I think making that somewhat draw on a realistic understanding of what such a cult would look like in that part of the country. Meaning, they should probably be explicitly Christian, and explicitly far-right ... that would make the game more interesting .. And FWIW, I do not think the game has to make the protagonist anti-right wing. I think the better approach would be to give the protagonist the choice on their own, very much like Bethesda-style games like Fallout or Bioshock both of which have had settings where fascist dictators were the main-story antagonist.

By contrast, so that you understand this isn't about pushing any sort of biased agenda, but more about creativity in storytelling; one of my favorite games is an anti-leftist satire of communism called 'KGB' for the old-school Commodore Amiga. The game pulls zero punches criticizing far-left ideology and group-think and does so in the communist backdrop of the perestroika-era Soviet Union. It's an awesome game, with an engrossing environment which makes the brief story compelling enough to want to complete even though it's brutally difficult.

And FWIW, if Ubisoft didn't want this kind of expectation, the setting choice itself which evokes the notion of political critique seems strange? Like, why not put the game in a foreign country if the goal weren't to criticize far-right Christian fundamentalism and extremism? Why make the backdrop rural Montana, and the cultist group overtly Christian and gun-loving if not to draw parallels to real-world associations, groups and beliefs? And all that more confusing, why run from those obvious parallels when you've already decided to use them as the backdrop for your story?

That's why the reviews explicitly state, before someone might think to play this game, "hey, this isn't going to go how you think... don't expect any social commentary or political commentary, because Ubisoft ran from that as fast as they could."

I'll still likely play the game, but that definitely detracts me from moving it to the front of my list.

 

[gourimoko]

Who is offended by Far Cry 5 NOT making a political statement about right wing extremism, or any other kind of extremism for that matter?

Lol... nobody is offended by Far Cry 5. That's basically the point..

They made the game as uncontroversial as possible and in doing so, reviewers are noting the obvious nature of Ubisoft's choices in their reviews. I think some people are offended that reviewers are commenting that the game lacks a compelling story and missed the opportunity to discuss the setting and backdrop the creators chose for their game.

 

[Chris]

That's right... Your original post was about the reviews and why they docked the game; I'm speaking as to why that makes sense given what so many reviewers have said about the game.



Okay.



I think the argument is that it didn't really do anything. It didn't really expound whatsoever on any of the aspects of the cult so as to avoid controversy. That's the point.

Given your last statement, I'm assuming you played the game and thought it sufficiently spoke to the trouble of religious extremism?



Curious as to what we're disagreeing about? You don't think video games can or should serve as a vehicle for social commentary like books or movies? Should they be purely general entertainment appealing to the widest audience possible without controversy? I'm honestly asking, not in anyway trying to be facetious -- I'm curious as to your thoughts.



If the setting is Montana, and it's a gun-loving cult that's the antagonist group here; then I think making that somewhat draw on a realistic understanding of what such a cult would look like in that part of the country. Meaning, they should probably be explicitly Christian, and explicitly far-right ... that would make the game more interesting .. And FWIW, I do not think the game has to make the protagonist anti-right wing. I think the better approach would be to give the protagonist the choice on their own, very much like Bethesda-style games like Fallout or Bioshock both of which have had settings where fascist dictators were the main-story antagonist.

By contrast, so that you understand this isn't about pushing any sort of biased agenda, but more about creativity in storytelling; one of my favorite games is an anti-leftist satire of communism called 'KGB' for the old-school Commodore Amiga. The game pulls zero punches criticizing far-left ideology and group-think and does so in the communist backdrop of the perestroika-era Soviet Union. It's an awesome game, with an engrossing environment which makes the brief story compelling enough to want to complete even though it's brutally difficult.

And FWIW, if Ubisoft didn't want this kind of expectation, the setting choice itself which evokes the notion of political critique seems strange? Like, why not put the game in a foreign country if the goal weren't to criticize far-right Christian fundamentalism and extremism? Why make the backdrop rural Montana, and the cultist group overtly Christian and gun-loving if not to draw parallels to real-world associations, groups and beliefs? And all that more confusing, why run from those obvious parallels when you've already decided to use them as the backdrop for your story?

That's why the reviews explicitly state, before someone might think to play this game, "hey, this isn't going to go how you think... don't expect any social commentary or political commentary, because Ubisoft ran from that as fast as they could."

I'll still likely play the game, but that definitely detracts me from moving it to the front of my list.

I disagree that it should be docked for not making a political statement. Think it's a silly thing to tank a game's review for when you spend it praising the rest of the game.

Good ideas on the game, and I think that might have been cool, but I certainly won't complain that a far Cry game didnt go that route you detailed (again, though, it'd have been interesting, sure).

 

[Chris]

Lol... nobody is offended by Far Cry 5. That's basically the point..

They made the game as uncontroversial as possible and in doing so, reviewers are noting the obvious nature of Ubisoft's choices in their reviews. I think some people are offended that reviewers are commenting that the game lacks a compelling story and missed the opportunity to discuss the setting and backdrop the creators chose for their game.

Cheap shot...

I am annoyed that a game will be given a low score when the game is very good but doesn't make a political statement the reviewer wanted to see. That is silly. You are reviewing a VIDEO GAME. If the game is great otherwise, why is it getting a D-quality score?

 

[Jack Brickman]

Curious as to what we're disagreeing about? You don't think video games can or should serve as a vehicle for social commentary like books or movies? Should they be purely general entertainment appealing to the widest audience possible without controversy? I'm honestly asking, not in anyway trying to be facetious -- I'm curious as to your thoughts.

Well, I personally don't think every game needs to serve as a vehicle of social commentary, but if you don't want to make a statement, you should pick a suitable setting. For example, a game set in a zombie apocalypse doesn't necessarily need to say anything. Like in Dead Rising, it can just be fun. Or, like The Walking Dead Telltale games, it can make you think about the choices you might have to make to survive in such a world, and the consequences those choices can and will have on you.

But picking a deliberately controversial setting and then refusing to offer any commentary just feels lazy.

Cheap shot...

I am annoyed that a game will be given a low score when the game is very good but doesn't make a political statement the reviewer wanted to see. That is silly. You are reviewing a VIDEO GAME. If the game is great otherwise, why is it getting a D-quality score?

Has this happened in more than like one instance, though? The game is sitting in the 80-85 range on Metacritic, and given the previous installments, that's not surprising to me. They've never been 9 or 10 games. They belong in the 7-8 range. Fun, but ultimately not terribly memorable. They're the type of games you enjoy while you're playing, but then forget entirely when you're done.

 

[gourimoko]

I disagree that it should be docked for not making a political statement. Think it's a silly thing to tank a game's review for when you spend it praising the rest of the game.

Let me ask you this: again, I'm assuming you've played the game; do you think Far Cry 5's story is compelling in it's own right?

Good ideas on the game, and I think that might have been cool, but I certainly won't complain that a far Cry game didnt go that route you detailed (again, though, it'd have been interesting, sure).

Of course, there's an infinite number of ways they could have gone with the story. I just think given the setting, people's expectations got set that this would be a Bioshock like satirical take on extremism; and it turned out, it wasn't that at all. I think that left many reviewers disappointed.