Time for a Rudy Gay safari?

[godfather]

I have a couple of questions question for @gourimoko , @godfather and others who want us to get Rudy Gay.

1. Do you think Rudy Gay would be that effective playing off the ball? Throughout his career till now, he has always thrived with the ball in his hands. What makes you guys so confident that he would be great playing off the ball?

2. Won't getting another high volume shooter affect the dynamics of the team? There were issues with integrating Love in the offense until last season before Ty took over. Adding another guy who needs the ball in his hands and has been a high volume shooter doesn't seem like ideal.

3. And I still don't see how Rudy Gay will help us negate or restrict KD, because he has never been known for defense.

I agree that we need an athletic wing and it should be the priority. I just don't see Rudy Gay as the ideal option for it.

Wasn't Iggy always a guy that seemed to need the ball in his hands?

I don't get why Rudy isn't an ideal option? It's comforting to know we have another guy that can get his own offense too. I don't see why he "can't" play without the ball. He plays with Boogie Cousins, and that guy can be a black hole offensively. Still pretty productive. He wouldn't benefit playing with one of the greatest passing small forwards ever?

With the often complaints of how horrific this team is without LeBron, it's because we don't have anyone other than Kyrie that can really create offense, or make plays for others.

Outside Love, and to a degree he is still relied on others, given he doesn't dribble the ball. These guys are all relied on LeBron to be so effective.

And I think when Griffin says we need another playmaker, that's what he means. Not a point guard. But another guy that can "make plays" for himself, and others, and not just another guy that needs to play off LeBron to be relevant.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Exactly.

Problem: Gilbert is not going to pay the same tax he's paying this year next year. He's going to keep Shumpert locked in at $10M, and probably re-sign Korver. That's $15-18 million. Gay is going to get around $20-22 million, Batum money essentially and with Korver who I really think is going to be made a priority to keep, that's $25-30 million. I don't see him delving into the tier 3/tier 4 of the luxury tax again. I think the directive the FO has is pretty clear and pretty ironclad and well reported enough to state this confidently.


I really really would like Rudy, but I don't think the Cavs are going to add that kind of money(increases our tax hit NOW and going forward) AND give up our best/last remaining asset who they think very highly of.

 

[Rich]

Problem: Gilbert is not going to pay the same tax he's paying this year next year. He's going to keep Shumpert locked in at $10M, and probably re-sign Korver. That's $15-18 million. Gay is going to get around $20-22 million, Batum money essentially and with Korver who I really think is going to be made a priority to keep, that's $25-30 million. I don't see him delving into the tier 3/tier 4 of the luxury tax again. I think the directive the FO has is pretty clear and pretty ironclad and well reported enough to state this confidently.


I really really would like Rudy, but I don't think the Cavs are going to add that kind of money(increases our tax hit NOW and going forward) AND give up our best/last remaining asset who they think very highly of.

THey could just not keep Korver. Which would make sense if the choice is between Korver and Rudy Gay....

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

THey could just not keep Korver. Which would make sense if the choice is between Korver and Rudy Gay....

It's more like...Shumpert+Korver+Osman(let's be conservative and say he's equivalent to the 25th pick in the draft) +the rest of our roster/trade flexibility besides minimum contracts.

I can see the argument where some people would look at that and say "you know what....worth it.." it's not invalid.

I don't think there's a chance in hell that Dan Gilbert agrees. Not sure about the FO, depends on how they evaluate Gay.

Also---is Rudy Gay willing to accept a bench role and completely shift the way he plays towards complimentary a-la Andre Iguodala? Maybe he is. Don't know.

 

[godfather]

Yeah, they'd easily, hands down, keep Rudy Gay over Korver. I think Korver is just a replacement for JR. They're kinda redundant. I really don't think they plan on keeping Korver IMO. Say we keep this roster, do I think Gilbert will pay Korver 10-12 million a year. I don't. And if they acquire Gay, they definitely won't.

Between Korver, Gay, and JR. I agree, they're not going to play all three over 12 million. That I agree. They'd just let Korver walk, unless he'd re-sign for a very cheap deal. I don't think he would.

Rudy Gay is a better player, by far, than Korver right now.

Another reason why it might make better sense to trade for Rudy if we can. Shumpert would be in that deal. They would IMO make it a priority to re-sign Rudy Gay.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

That's a lot of assets+flexibility to lose for one player when you're actively trying to lower your luxury tax burden with creative deals.

 

[Lyuokdea]

That's a lot of assets+flexibility to lose for one player when you're actively trying to lower your luxury tax burden with creative deals.

It's also possible that we were trying to lower our tax burden on earlier deals so that we could make deals that increase our tax burden later....

 

[godfather]

It's more like...Shumpert+Korver+Osman(let's be conservative and say he's equivalent to the 25th pick in the draft) +the rest of our roster/trade flexibility besides minimum contracts.

I can see the argument where some people would look at that and say "you know what....worth it.." it's not invalid.

I don't think there's a chance in hell that Dan Gilbert agrees. Not sure about the FO, depends on how they evaluate Gay.

Also---is Rudy Gay willing to accept a bench role and completely shift the way he plays towards complimentary a-la Andre Iguodala? Maybe he is. Don't know.

They could start Rudy. I don't see why JR can't come off the bench. I think either way, he'd play 28 minutes a game at least. I think the Cavs would like to go small more too, with LB at the 4. They just don't have a viable small forward right now to do that. But now they have Korver, it's at least more of an option than before.

A shame JR went down, because they'd probably do this more with Korver too. A Love/Frye, LeBron, Korver, JR and Kyrie would be so devastating offensively. Maybe we'll eventually see some of that with Shumpert instead the way he's shooting the ball.

Just imagine that against GS though. The floor spacing, the shooters. Wow.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

They could start Rudy. I don't see why JR can't come off the bench. I think either way, he'd play 28 minutes a game at least. I think the Cavs would like to go small more too, with LB at the 4. They just don't have a viable small forward right now to do that. But now they have Korver, it's at least more of an option than before.

A shame JR went down, because they'd probably do this more with Korver too. A Love/Frye, LeBron, Korver, JR and Kyrie would be so devastating offensively. Maybe we'll eventually see some of that with Shumpert instead the way he's shooting the ball.

Just imagine that against GS though. The floor spacing, the shooters. Wow.

Gay at the 3 and Bron at the 4 (or Gay "LISTED" at the 4 and Bron "LISTED at 3" ...whatever Bron prefers is the biggest reason I'd love for Gilbert to open up the pocketbook just oneeeee last time for Rudy. That's the real-mismatch this would create.


Also....I just looked at the standings...

unless Sacramento falls hard in the next 3 weeks, I don't think it's even an option. They're a half game out of the 8 seed. They're not trading Rudy Gay for Shumpert+Osman and falling out of the 8 seed race. They're very much trying to make the playoffs at least once with Boogie.

 

[godfather]

Gay at the 3 and Bron at the 4 (or Gay "LISTED" at the 4 and Bron "LISTED at 3" ...whatever Bron prefers is the biggest reason I'd love for Gilbert to open up the pocketbook just oneeeee last time for Rudy. That's the real-mismatch this would create.


Also....I just looked at the standings...

unless Sacramento falls hard in the next 3 weeks, I don't think it's even an option. They're a half game out of the 8 seed. They're not trading Rudy Gay for Shumpert+Osman and falling out of the 8 seed race. They're very much trying to make the playoffs at least once with Boogie.

I don't think we're going to get him either. He's just my dream scenario/option.

I think we're going to see if someone like Tucker/Thabo gets bought out, and sign one of those guys. I don't think we have any interest in trading Osman for those types of players. And I'm not sure what remaining assets we have, while not including Osman, where we can obtain much, if anything.

I think the Cavs might be done in trades unless a Rudy Gay is available.

 

[Otsego Mar]

Am I delirious in thinking that SAC could trade Gay and still make the 8th seed? It's not like they are getting out of the 1st round anyway.

 

[godfather]

Am I delirious in thinking that SAC could trade Gay and still make the 8th seed? It's not like they are getting out of the 1st round anyway.

They've been insisting on it for years now, they want to make the playoffs and try to win now. They got Cousins who could walk soon, and have not made any indication they'd trade him.

Keep in mind this is a very disorganized franchise. I am not even sure they're all on the same page on what they want to do.

Divac has been insisting and pushing to win now.

 

[gourimoko]

unless Sacramento falls hard in the next 3 weeks, I don't think it's even an option. They're a half game out of the 8 seed. They're not trading Rudy Gay for Shumpert+Osman and falling out of the 8 seed race. They're very much trying to make the playoffs at least once with Boogie.

But they would trade Rudy Gay for Ricky Rubio; which likely makes them much better as a team, both offensively and defensively.

Also the Cousins situation is pretty much a non-factor these days since he's now working on an extension with the Kings.

The new CBA makes it highly improbable that Cousins would leave the Kings; so much so, that once it was finalized, the word came out that the Kings and Cousins would sign an extension this year.

So their need to make the playoffs solely to appease Cousins isn't a concern any longer; moreover, they'd very much like to add a guy like Ricky Rubio -- and if you could do that, with Rubio's contract, and the only piece going out the door is one you're going to lose in a few months anyway, you do that 10 times outta 10.

 

[Jordan]

But they would trade Rudy Gay for Ricky Rubio; which likely makes them much better as a team, both offensively and defensively.

Also the Cousins situation is pretty much a non-factor these days since he's now working on an extension with the Kings.

The new CBA makes it highly improbable that Cousins would leave the Kings; so much so, that once it was finalized, the word came out that the Kings and Cousins would sign an extension this year.

So their need to make the playoffs solely to appease Cousins isn't a concern any longer; moreover, they'd very much like to add a guy like Ricky Rubio -- and if you could do that, with Rubio's contract, and the only piece going out the door is one you're going to lose in a few months anyway, you do that 10 times outta 10.

Rubio actually gives the Kings a sort of identity. I.E., a PG that can pass into post and set-up the big via PnR. I really like that trade for Sacramento. It's a shame half this board could draft bettter than the Kings' management. They could have a decent team, otherwise.

 

[Rich]

That's a lot of assets+flexibility to lose for one player when you're actively trying to lower your luxury tax burden with creative deals.

LeBron James is 32. The fact that lowering the tax bill is a primary objective right now is pretty damn sad. I'm sorry, Gilbert shouldn't get a pass on this. Our window isn't infinite. We are coming up on a time very, very soon where his play is going to fall off dramatically. I'm trying to think of a player who was 35 and still considered a top 10..hell, a top 20 player in the league? We should be doing everything we can to win right now and next year.