Trade Deadline // 2023

[Damage]

I've listed most of the teams I think should be in contention to acquire Bieber. Thoughts? And given he would be the top pitching (maybe top overall) player available

Dodgers
Diamondbacks
Braves
Rangers
Brewers
Phillies
Giants
Marlins
Reds

 

[kriegs]

Astros

 

[Damage]

Astros

Fuck those guys. But yea..

 

[bob2the2nd]

no Orioles?

 

[Damage]

no Orioles?

Even though I always found the notion of don't trade in your division/conference to be silly, trying to stay away from AL teams as much as possible.

 

[bob2the2nd]

Even though I always found the notion of don't trade in your division/conference to be silly, trying to stay away from AL teams as much as possible.

I dont disagree, but i think they are a natural trading partner. They are absolutely loaded with high end hitting prospects (i think they have like 4 in the top 100). But the Os are going to be a force for the next 5 years at this point, so i could definitely see your point.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I've been on the "trade Bieber for maximum value" train for a while now.

I think it's pretty clear he, Myles and Rosario aren't being traded.

The front office wouldn't do that to Tito. The team's in a race for the division title and they aren't going to pull the rug out from under him. It would cause more problems with personalities than it would solve via talent acquisition.

I'm all for the "what do you think we should do" discussions--but as far as "what will we do" I'd be surprised if any of those big 3 names we constantly talk about get moved.

I think the most likely thing to happen amongst any of them is Straw to become a part-time starter if someone like OGon plays well enough to force the issue, getting more AB's in RF, sliding Brennan over to CF a little more.

If we sell anything, I expect it to be around the edges--maybe sell a bullpen arm or two plus some 40-man surplus in order to make the team a little better over the next couple years.

 

[yrm0019]

I've been on the "trade Bieber for maximum value" train for a while now.

I think it's pretty clear he, Myles and Rosario aren't being traded.

The front office wouldn't do that to Tito. The team's in a race for the division title and they aren't going to pull the rug out from under him. It would cause more problems with personalities than it would solve via talent acquisition.

I'm all for the "what do you think we should do" discussions--but as far as "what will we do" I'd be surprised if any of those big 3 names we constantly talk about get moved.

I think the most likely thing to happen amongst any of them is Straw to become a part-time starter if someone like OGon plays well enough to force the issue, getting more AB's in RF, sliding Brennan over to CF a little more.

If we sell anything, I expect it to be around the edges--maybe sell a bullpen arm or two plus some 40-man surplus in order to make the team a little better over the next couple years.

My thoughts exactly, we all have been Cleveland fans for a while knowing the payroll/contract challenges...and we know the cycle of trading assets, ideally at peak value. Whereas Clevinger/Bauer were closer to 'peak' values, I think Bieber is going to be more of the Kluber route, which is a bit unfortunate because I think the market is ripe for Bieber. Everyone else of similar ability is an 11-12 start rental; Bieber has 40+ starts of value. (Yes, Kluber netted Clase...but even that was dicey for a while with Clase's suspension and DeShields being DeShields.)

The key phrase is "..the front office wouldn't do that to Tito." That's why I am not hopeful of any significant moves. The FO has a deep reverence for Tito and the coaching staff and they wouldn't pull the rug out from under his feel like that. The only time I think that really happened -- just guessing here -- is when Brantley walked after his contract. Tito seemed to get a misty-eyed talking about Brantley afterwards and I always got the feeling that Tito wished the FO would have made a better effort to keep Brantley. Again, just speculation on my part, no real knowledge.

If any major deal is struck, I have a feeling it would need to be a multi-team trade. That opens up the possibility of the Guards getting major league ready talent back in a deal.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

My thoughts exactly, we all have been Cleveland fans for a while knowing the payroll/contract challenges...and we know the cycle of trading assets, ideally at peak value. Whereas Clevinger/Bauer were closer to 'peak' values, I think Bieber is going to be more of the Kluber route, which is a bit unfortunate because I think the market is ripe for Bieber. Everyone else of similar ability is an 11-12 start rental; Bieber has 40+ starts of value. (Yes, Kluber netted Clase...but even that was dicey for a while with Clase's suspension and DeShields being DeShields.)

The key phrase is "..the front office wouldn't do that to Tito." That's why I am not hopeful of any significant moves. The FO has a deep reverence for Tito and the coaching staff and they wouldn't pull the rug out from under his feel like that. The only time I think that really happened -- just guessing here -- is when Brantley walked after his contract. Tito seemed to get a misty-eyed talking about Brantley afterwards and I always got the feeling that Tito wished the FO would have made a better effort to keep Brantley. Again, just speculation on my part, no real knowledge.

If any major deal is struck, I have a feeling it would need to be a multi-team trade. That opens up the possibility of the Guards getting major league ready talent back in a deal.

It wasn't the front office.

Brantley chose to walk away. We were willing to pay him what he got in Houston. He just didn't want to be here anymore.

 

[KluberSociety]

I've been on the "trade Bieber for maximum value" train for a while now.

I think it's pretty clear he, Myles and Rosario aren't being traded.

The front office wouldn't do that to Tito. The team's in a race for the division title and they aren't going to pull the rug out from under him. It would cause more problems with personalities than it would solve via talent acquisition.

I'm all for the "what do you think we should do" discussions--but as far as "what will we do" I'd be surprised if any of those big 3 names we constantly talk about get moved.

I think the most likely thing to happen amongst any of them is Straw to become a part-time starter if someone like OGon plays well enough to force the issue, getting more AB's in RF, sliding Brennan over to CF a little more.

If we sell anything, I expect it to be around the edges--maybe sell a bullpen arm or two plus some 40-man surplus in order to make the team a little better over the next couple years.

Another reason is just looking at the pitchers that Cleveland has traded over the years and what they have turned into. Who is going to give even fair market value to a Cleveland pitcher whose historically most effective pitches have lost their effectiveness?

In order for me to be aboard a "trade Bieber for maximum value" kind of proposition, I need to know what that maximum value is. And I worry about just how low it can be.

I also think there's a huge correlation between players Cleveland fans want to trade, and players that other teams don't necessarily want that much. Like who is actually going to cough up much of anything for Rosario? Does he even have positive net value when you factor in the amount he got in his arb contract? Now I am for trading Rosario regardless of that just because we need to deal with that logjam problem impacting Freeman, Arias, and Rocchio, and maybe even in not too much time Brito.

 

[440]

Probably not a popular take but I'd trade Bieber AND Civale. Bieber is a given but there is a good chance Civale never has the trade value he has now in his lifetime and next year we are in the same position with him that we are right now with Bieber. Top 3 trade partners would be Baltimore, Arizona, and Cincinnati. This is pretty much giving up on the season with our rookies innings caps coming up at some point but we aren't advancing far anyways without them. My rotation until they hit their caps would be Williams, Bibee, Morris, Allen, Cantillo.

 

[mopete12]

Probably not a popular take but I'd trade Bieber AND Civale. Bieber is a given but there is a good chance Civale never has the trade value he has now in his lifetime and next year we are in the same position with him that we are right now with Bieber. Top 3 trade partners would be Baltimore, Arizona, and Cincinnati. This is pretty much giving up on the season with our rookies innings caps coming up at some point but we aren't advancing far anyways without them. My rotation until they hit their caps would be Williams, Bibee, Morris, Allen, Cantillo.

This would be giving up on 2024 too unless you are getting at least one MLB ready pitcher back.

 

[Gson]

My thoughts exactly, we all have been Cleveland fans for a while knowing the payroll/contract challenges...and we know the cycle of trading assets, ideally at peak value. Whereas Clevinger/Bauer were closer to 'peak' values, I think Bieber is going to be more of the Kluber route, which is a bit unfortunate because I think the market is ripe for Bieber. Everyone else of similar ability is an 11-12 start rental; Bieber has 40+ starts of value. (Yes, Kluber netted Clase...but even that was dicey for a while with Clase's suspension and DeShields being DeShields.)

The key phrase is "..the front office wouldn't do that to Tito." That's why I am not hopeful of any significant moves. The FO has a deep reverence for Tito and the coaching staff and they wouldn't pull the rug out from under his feel like that. The only time I think that really happened -- just guessing here -- is when Brantley walked after his contract. Tito seemed to get a misty-eyed talking about Brantley afterwards and I always got the feeling that Tito wished the FO would have made a better effort to keep Brantley. Again, just speculation on my part, no real knowledge.

If any major deal is struck, I have a feeling it would need to be a multi-team trade. That opens up the possibility of the Guards getting major league ready talent back in a deal.

In the MLB Network Special: Tito... Tito was interviewed and stated that the 2022 season, after coming back from the illness marred 2020 and 2021.. was a joy for him.. So many young kids that he could influence for the best baseball they could play.. He stated that he would take less money to manage a team like that.. This year, with fully a third of the starters innings being pitched by rookies.. is more of the same.. and there was chicken..

imho.. Tito should manage the way he has as long as he wants...

 

[440]

This would be giving up on 2024 too unless you are getting at least one MLB ready pitcher back.

I would think if we traded two pitchers we'd get one back but I don't see how trading Civale who is hurt a lot anyways is giving up on 2024. Besides his FIP is 3.62 or over a run above his ERA. He's in for some major regression at some point.

 

[Gson]

Probably not a popular take but I'd trade Bieber AND Civale. Bieber is a given but there is a good chance Civale never has the trade value he has now in his lifetime and next year we are in the same position with him that we are right now with Bieber. Top 3 trade partners would be Baltimore, Arizona, and Cincinnati. This is pretty much giving up on the season with our rookies innings caps coming up at some point but we aren't advancing far anyways without them. My rotation until they hit their caps would be Williams, Bibee, Morris, Allen, Cantillo.

Civale has two years of club control (ARB II and III)... Consideration for trade and his value should be peaking after this year.. He's, perhaps, the most complete "pitcher" on the current squad.. A good guy for young kids to see and learn from.. I'm torn between trading him and keeping him..