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Trade Deadline // 2023

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That's a lot of explaining away the fact that we can't hit LHP in exactly the spots Call would fill and most of it we knew before (Straw and Brennan splits).
If there's room for a 3rd string C, there certainly should be room for a perfectly fine bench player like Call, who projects for 2 fWAR over a full season.

It's not a huge mistake, but it was one for this season and yes, it's connected to other problems. Just because there are bigger issues doesn't mean that the team can't run with a higher safety net for a higher floor.

As a wise man once said: you live and die by the margins
 
That's a lot of explaining away the fact that we can't hit LHP in exactly the spots Call would fill and most of it we knew before (Straw and Brennan splits).
If there's room for a 3rd string C, there certainly should be room for a perfectly fine bench player like Call, who projects for 2 fWAR over a full season.

It's not a huge mistake, but it was one for this season and yes, it's connected to other problems. Just because there are bigger issues doesn't mean that the team can't run with a higher safety net for a higher floor.

As a wise man once said: you live and die by the margins
.....we barely have the making of one ML catcher and two guys who wear catching gear but are not close to being complete players.. even poor ones.. The next real catcher we acquire will give the Guardians a chance to have first and second string catchers.. right now.. that's not the case..

It's a pick at a nit.. but.. it defines the fringe where our catching currently resides..
 
.....we barely have the making of one ML catcher and two guys who wear catching gear but are not close to being complete players.. even poor ones.. The next real catcher we acquire will give the Guardians a chance to have first and second string catchers.. right now.. that's not the case..

It's a pick at a nit.. but.. it defines the fringe where our catching currently resides..

If we acquire a catcher, it's a Roberto Perez type... not a high end one...
 
Bigger issues take longer to solve.

Good thing some of you guys don't run teams yourselves, lack of patience would have probably gotten you fired very quickly.

But I'm not going to sit here and lament over a straight platoon OF bat that we got rid of when a guy like Kevin Pillar is getting year-to-year minor league deals every winter. Shows you how valuable an above average RH bat that can handle LHP but can't do much of anything else is leaguewide.

I guess that explains the trades of Benson and Jones.
 
People keep talking about how every team is throwing nothing but lefties at us and our team is completely inept at hitting lefties--we need to stop what we're doing and address this NOW!!!

Yet, on the year, exactly 29.47% of our plate appearances have come against lefties. Our OPS+ against them is 85, which is 26th in baseball. Our OPS+ against righties is 95, which is 20th.

I think the real problem is that our team needs to hit better--not that we need to abandon what we're doing and focus on improving against pitchers we see less than 30% of the time.
 
People keep talking about how every team is throwing nothing but lefties at us and our team is completely inept at hitting lefties--we need to stop what we're doing and address this NOW!!!

Yet, on the year, exactly 29.47% of our plate appearances have come against lefties. Our OPS+ against them is 85, which is 26th in baseball. Our OPS+ against righties is 95, which is 20th.

I think the real problem is that our team needs to hit better--not that we need to abandon what we're doing and focus on improving against pitchers we see less than 30% of the time.
....there you go again.. being logical supported by facts...
 
People keep talking about how every team is throwing nothing but lefties at us and our team is completely inept at hitting lefties--we need to stop what we're doing and address this NOW!!!

Yet, on the year, exactly 29.47% of our plate appearances have come against lefties. Our OPS+ against them is 85, which is 26th in baseball. Our OPS+ against righties is 95, which is 20th.

I think the real problem is that our team needs to hit better--not that we need to abandon what we're doing and focus on improving against pitchers we see less than 30% of the time.

95 to 85 is a quite meaningful drop off. One is acceptable, the other is bad.
 
95 to 85 is a quite meaningful drop off. One is acceptable, the other is bad.
Neither is great.

I'm okay with us hitting 10 points better against the type of pitcher we face over 70% of the time. I don't think that gap is so massive that we need to change our philosophy moving forward.

When we reach our contention window, if we need a platoon player or a pinch hitter who can hit lefties, we can go find the next Brandon Guyer or Jordan Luplow. It's not a pressing need.
 
People keep talking about how every team is throwing nothing but lefties at us and our team is completely inept at hitting lefties--we need to stop what we're doing and address this NOW!!!

Yet, on the year, exactly 29.47% of our plate appearances have come against lefties. Our OPS+ against them is 85, which is 26th in baseball. Our OPS+ against righties is 95, which is 20th.

I think the real problem is that our team needs to hit better--not that we need to abandon what we're doing and focus on improving against pitchers we see less than 30% of the time.
Well, Texas did exactly that. They threw lefties at us. 2 out of 3 starters, and both late inning relievers. But that was Texas and is mostly a consequence of who they had on their team. But it did seem weird to me that we didn't even try to make a move before that series or before Saturday to add anyone to the roster who might have a chance of hitting lefties. I'm just thinking of an in house guy like OGonz who might not be great but it was definitely puzzling to see these lineups with both Gallagher and Fry at the same time, etc.

Overall though yeah I think you're very right about that. There just aren't THAT many lefties out there to throw at us. Some bullpens don't even have one decent lefty.

As to improving the offense, sure it can be improved, but we have so many young players that I just feel like adding a temporary patch this year isn't a great idea when we could be giving some of them some PT and hopefully being more built for years to come. We can mix and match OFs depending on situations if we have a halfway decent bat-first RH guy (not sure it's OGonz but anyone similar, I don't think Call really fits the bill though as he is closer to glove-first) and all of him, Straw, and Brennan would STILL be able to play 2/3 of the time, and all 3 players would be very synergetic and cover for each other's weaknesses.

I'm not saying throw in the towel this year but I don't see a problem with Straw having a significant role on this team as long as we have ways to get him out of the game when it really matters. I don't have a problem with Brennan having being an almost-starter as long as he isn't playing every day against lefties. If OGonz is on the roster just make sure he's out of the field when we care more about defense.

Straw is still an asset. Brennan is more than just an asset. Kwan is probably more than that. When navigating the OF situation I think good management of what we have plus a minor addition (either from AAA or outside) can alleviate the problems. Management can at least patch some of the talent deficiencies there.


Regarding the CATCHING situation...

The mid minors are pretty brutal. Nobody is standing out even in the lower minors but we drafted strong in C. Let's see where that goes but I do think Lavastida is important and I agree with the idea that we shouldn't be overly concerned with adding a second strong catcher. At least for now we can ride or die with Naylor and hope that Lavastida or Fry are passable enough as backups in the long term. If we don't think that's the case we can always add someone but the time isn't really now for that.


I'm still more concerned about the pitching situation. We've got a bunch of question-marks and 3 young guys who have potential who are the future (along with hopefully Espino and maybe someone like Cantillo) but AAA is pretty much depleted of arms. Next season we might see some fringier arms get called up but it's hard to see anyone as really leading the charge.
 
Well, Texas did exactly that. They threw lefties at us. 2 out of 3 starters, and both late inning relievers. But that was Texas and is mostly a consequence of who they had on their team. But it did seem weird to me that we didn't even try to make a move before that series or before Saturday to add anyone to the roster who might have a chance of hitting lefties. I'm just thinking of an in house guy like OGonz who might not be great but it was definitely puzzling to see these lineups with both Gallagher and Fry at the same time, etc.

Overall though yeah I think you're very right about that. There just aren't THAT many lefties out there to throw at us. Some bullpens don't even have one decent lefty.

As to improving the offense, sure it can be improved, but we have so many young players that I just feel like adding a temporary patch this year isn't a great idea when we could be giving some of them some PT and hopefully being more built for years to come. We can mix and match OFs depending on situations if we have a halfway decent bat-first RH guy (not sure it's OGonz but anyone similar, I don't think Call really fits the bill though as he is closer to glove-first) and all of him, Straw, and Brennan would STILL be able to play 2/3 of the time, and all 3 players would be very synergetic and cover for each other's weaknesses.

I'm not saying throw in the towel this year but I don't see a problem with Straw having a significant role on this team as long as we have ways to get him out of the game when it really matters. I don't have a problem with Brennan having being an almost-starter as long as he isn't playing every day against lefties. If OGonz is on the roster just make sure he's out of the field when we care more about defense.

Straw is still an asset. Brennan is more than just an asset. Kwan is probably more than that. When navigating the OF situation I think good management of what we have plus a minor addition (either from AAA or outside) can alleviate the problems. Management can at least patch some of the talent deficiencies there.


Regarding the CATCHING situation...

The mid minors are pretty brutal. Nobody is standing out even in the lower minors but we drafted strong in C. Let's see where that goes but I do think Lavastida is important and I agree with the idea that we shouldn't be overly concerned with adding a second strong catcher. At least for now we can ride or die with Naylor and hope that Lavastida or Fry are passable enough as backups in the long term. If we don't think that's the case we can always add someone but the time isn't really now for that.


I'm still more concerned about the pitching situation. We've got a bunch of question-marks and 3 young guys who have potential who are the future (along with hopefully Espino and maybe someone like Cantillo) but AAA is pretty much depleted of arms. Next season we might see some fringier arms get called up but it's hard to see anyone as really leading the charge.
When I say that our team needs to hit better, I don't mean that we need to make trades and short-term moves to address that this season.

Things like not having Andres Gimenez, Josh Bell and Steven Kwan slumping/regressing for a big part of the year will help those numbers. Replacing Amed Rosario can help those numbers. Bo Naylor coming in (and developing) for Zunino can help those numbers. Figuring out RF can help those issues.

There are paths to internal development everywhere--and those are the avenues we should pursue. We use free agency and trades to fix the areas where our internal pipeline came up short.
 
You keep saying that, but we keep missing one every damn season. So is this either a FO blind spot or there aren't as many as you claim.

You won't convince me or many others here that we don't need a capable RH OF platoon bat, Guardians twitter/Internet is full of trade hypotheticals looking for exactly that kind of profile
Uhhhhh I hate platoons and that should not be a revelation to anyone here.
 
Few points,
1) How would Jones and Benson look with Arias/Freeman inconsistent playing time? Or, just 500 ABs like Oscar and be exposed to real pitching? We will see.

2) You don't fill 40 man winter space with a RHB who plays 30% of time. You reserve it for Bensons (really Valera Rocchio) with upside. But, then again, we robbed 40 man space for Rosario. That's why I said, we only keep 1 (if that) of Fry or Lava (if we add him for rule 5). And with Fry in RF, how much do we miss Call? Again, for 30% of time, it's that 1-2 game WAR at most ... Does it matter if we win 82 vs 81 games? In this division maybe. But, Call ain't making us WS contenders.

3) Even though Bell is hitting near career average now, we didn't add him for career average (and his wild swings). You hope for the higher upsides like Naylor. Until we see this, people will complain because this isn't his potential (average). And, getting $16.5 million - he will get criticized, it's part of the job (imagine if he was in NY like Lindor).
 
A couple more points,
4) There is value to small market teams to break in new talent like Benson, Jones, Calls, Oscar's. .. A team out of contention can do many and get rewarded for gambles that work and not pay a huge consequence for those that don't. We did do many (16) last year, but outside few like Oscar or Pilk who were up for good portion of season, who got anything more than a few games (up to month) like Curry and Morris or Brennan to just start getting feet wet?

This year our focus due to injury is trying to put vets behind our starters. I would like more Freeman, Arias and Fry but wondering if Tito is not pushing them as much to add instability behind a Williams, Bibee or Allen. See it in my kids games, when games go south, many heads go down and it snowballs unless you have vets to stabilize things. Maybe why Naylor isn't playing as much. While Fry is also rookie, he is older with bit more maturity.

5) I would like to see more rookie relievers but there isn't much other than Herrin and Morris. And, you do we ditch in trade when most of pen is inconsistent? Who would take them? There maybe point to SC saying we need vet in pen. Yet, it is more than 1 player but more of team approach where everyone know they got eachothers back. Like 90s, pitchers knew they had room to blow lead as hitters would bring them back. It took pressure off. Bringing Shaw or Hedges back wouldn't stop this bleeding. It's a mindset of TEAM.
 

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