Trade Deadline - Feb 8 at 3:00 EST

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

If your main argument is "a guy is getting paid too much" you are grasping at straws.

That's why I dismiss a lot of Simmons point.

It's not that Hill and Clarkson are bad players and that's why they are unwanted.

It is because people think they are overpaid. That is a big perceptual difference.

We are capped out as is so adding more money only matters if Dan doesn't want to sign the checks.

He does. So just evaluate the trade on "did this make the team better.....and if yes, at what cost?"

Bill is trying to be too technical here. Crowder was on a cheap contract but fucking sucked. Does that make him more valuable than Hill? Who is overpaid bit can actually do something?

But salary matters to other teams and so this is one of criterias that dictate your value and asking price. I don't give a shit Clarkson is paid 12.5 a year, I really don't because we are in cap hell.. but that doesn't mean it didn't mean the world to Magic to get rid of him or it made teams that do have cap space not want to throw anything at him just to maintain flexbility for 2018 and 2019 FA crop.

Isn't this our value is perceived? by buyers and sellers? we just like to bid against ourselves.

 

[Rambo!]

I know most will disagree but i am so so ANGRY!!! The Cavs did the worst thing... They didn't rebuild and they didn't go all in. They love being limbo. They 100% should have gone all in and made a trade for Deandre Jordan or Dwight Howard for the Nets pick. Now they will be a 4 seed. They have a 1 in 50 chance to beat Golden State, but with Deandre it would have increased to 1 in 10. Too bad they were indecisive and didn't go one way or the other. Adios Lebron.... it has been fun....

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

You think Payton is a better basketball player than Clarkson and Hood?

Based on...what exactly?

I'm talking about value here. Better player is so team team dependant and fit dependant when you are talking about role player, so i'm only taking about value.

Both Clarkson and Hood are average role players at best. Hood is minus impact player for Utah, they are -9 with him on the court and even surrounded by plus defenders he still finds himself by far the worst defender on the team and in the NBA by every metric available.
He has been worse for Utah than Payton has been to the Magic and he has injury concerns to boot. But, he is definitely a better prospect for this team, and he might even look signicantly better. I don't know who's the better player, but objectively, digging into the numbers, Hood has been worse.

Clarkson is a wild card though. I think he is perhaps better than Payton, but he is paid signicantly more and teams weren't going to bite on that price tag, and they just weren't willing to offer Magic any help.

I do think Clarkson can improve and round himself into a more complete player... let's see how it goes.

Don't you think we paid a bit too in the Lakers trade and in the Utah trade(considering Crowder's value was by far than both of them combined considering his impact and contract just a few months ago).?

 

[Cavsfan1985]

I know most will disagree but i am so so ANGRY!!! The Cavs did the worst thing... They didn't rebuild and they didn't go all in. They love being limbo. They 100% should have gone all in and made a trade for Deandre Jordan or Dwight Howard for the Nets pick. Now they will be a 4 seed. They have a 1 in 50 chance to beat Golden State, but with Deandre it would have increased to 1 in 10. Too bad they were indecisive and didn't go one way or the other. Adios Lebron.... it has been fun....

I have to disagree. There is no way you trade the Nets pick for either one of those players. We made trades that should set us up to finish the season strong, and get to the finals, and now we have the Net's pick and a bunch of players we can trade for if a Star does come available.

 

[Photon]

Hey hat if we did a “good” thing traded everything for Boogie and he would get injured with us? Everybody would “know” it was bound to happen... It’s way easier to talk crap about things that are just theoretically correct (if).

 

[arglebargle]

I have to disagree. There is no way you trade the Nets pick for either one of those players. We made trades that should set us up to finish the season strong, and get to the finals, and now we have the Net's pick and a bunch of players we can trade for if a Star does come available.

Totally. There was absolutely nobody available that was worth the potential that the Nets pick has. Sure, it could be pick #8-10, but it could also be pick #3-5. The East is really up in the air, and the Nets are still a bad team, just not the worst in the league. In this draft, this pick will be worth something good.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I think it's going to be fun watching LBJ trying to get the young guys involved. He's smart enough to know this isn't a short term move, and that if he wants the guys around him to get better, he's going to have to help them develop.

And I think he's really going to like playing with Nance Jr.

 

[Mr. MacPhisto]

Totally. There was absolutely nobody available that was worth the potential that the Nets pick has. Sure, it could be pick #8-10, but it could also be pick #3-5. The East is really up in the air, and the Nets are still a bad team, just not the worst in the league. In this draft, this pick will be worth something good.

Could be #1. Clippers had the 7th best chance at #1 and that turned into Kyrie Irving.

If that picks gets #1 and the Cavs are in a deep playoff run, that's nuts.

 

[Cavatt]

I'm talking about value here. Better player is so team team dependant and fit dependant when you are talking about role player, so i'm only taking about value.

Both Clarkson and Hood are average role players at best. Hood is minus impact player for Utah, they are -9 with him on the court and even surrounded by plus defenders he still finds himself by far the worst defender on the team and in the NBA by every metric available.
He has been worse for Utah than Payton has been to the Magic and he has injury concerns to boot. But, he is definitely a better prospect for this team, and he might even look signicantly better. I don't know who's the better player, but objectively, digging into the numbers, Hood has been worse.

Clarkson is a wild card though. I think he is perhaps better than Payton, but he is paid signicantly more and teams weren't going to bite on that price tag, and they just weren't willing to offer Magic any help.

I do think Clarkson can improve and round himself into a more complete player... let's see how it goes.

Don't you think we paid a bit too in the Lakers trade and in the Utah trade(considering Crowder's value was by far than both of them combined considering his impact and contract just a few months ago).?

Wow no way. Crowder is worth basically nothing. We just increased our shooting and athleticism big time. Hood is not a great defender, but he is not as bad as you say. He has like for real talent as well. He can light it up and Lebron is the perfect guy for him to play with. It's a gamble with his defense, but hopefully he is young enough to put more effort in there. Crowder was a good value for a cheap contract, but both Clarkson and Nance are more relevant to this team. Crowder couldn't play the 4, that was a failuer and he could not rebound. Hell Clarkson rebounds better than Crowder.

Clarkson is def better than Payton. He can hit the 3 which is vitally important to spacing. All the guys but Nance are spacers. We have seen how much harder Lerbons job is without spacing. TT became unplayable with less space. Nance, Jeff Green, and TT are going to look much better, and Korver is going to be able to operate much better without having 2 guys on him all the time on the perimeter. The game will open up.

I thought last night that we were super lucky to get away with just giving up a late first as opposed to Cedi. It was worth giving up the 1st to keep him IMO.

Also, screw the Lakers. They are going to attract some high priced semi-stars, but no way they add Paul George with the way he is playing on the Thunder.

I am just glad the team actually has some upside. This team can get better without doing anything next year, and we have the nets pick. I think this is the best possible outcome from a bad situation.

 

[avs2000]

Wow no way. Crowder is worth basically nothing. We just increased our shooting and athleticism big time. Hood is not a great defender, but he is not as bad as you say. He has like for real talent as well. He can light it up and Lebron is the perfect guy for him to play with. It's a gamble with his defense, but hopefully he is young enough to put more effort in there. Crowder was a good value for a cheap contract, but both Clarkson and Nance are more relevant to this team. Crowder couldn't play the 4, that was a failuer and he could not rebound. Hell Clarkson rebounds better than Crowder.

Clarkson is def better than Payton. He can hit the 3 which is vitally important to spacing. All the guys but Nance are spacers. We have seen how much harder Lerbons job is without spacing. TT became unplayable with less space. Nance, Jeff Green, and TT are going to look much better, and Korver is going to be able to operate much better without having 2 guys on him all the time on the perimeter. The game will open up.

I thought last night that we were super lucky to get away with just giving up a late first as opposed to Cedi. It was worth giving up the 1st to keep him IMO.

Also, screw the Lakers. They are going to attract some high priced semi-stars, but no way they add Paul George with the way he is playing on the Thunder.

I am just glad the team actually has some upside. This team can get better without doing anything next year, and we have the nets pick. I think this is the best possible outcome from a bad situation.

we did not give up one player we are going to miss except a little bit of frye

wade to me was not part of the moves to get better, management just did the right thing for him. he could have stayed, he wanted to leave

 

[Photon]

If Wade wanted out I strongly suspect he thinks he is done = not able to play until finals. Cavs probably knew that also...

 

[KilgoreTrout]

It’s okay, Kilgore. Do what you gotta do for the betterment of the team!!

And just like that - Reon returns, and things get better for the Cavs!

And just like that - checking the RCF boards is NSFW...

 

[KilgoreTrout]

Good news. Bill Simmons is worried about Cavs again

We didn't give up a first, to take Clarkson on.

We gave up a first for Nance.

We basically gave them IT and Frye for Clarkson.

The question is whether we could have kept our first and used it to get DJ, instead of Nance.

 

[KilgoreTrout]

Does anyone know what it might have TAKEN to get DJ?

Do we get DJ without giving up the Nets pick?

Do we get DJ for something resembling JR + TT + our first-rounder?

 

[Cavsfan1985]

I'm talking about value here. Better player is so team team dependant and fit dependant when you are talking about role player, so i'm only taking about value.

Both Clarkson and Hood are average role players at best. Hood is minus impact player for Utah, they are -9 with him on the court and even surrounded by plus defenders he still finds himself by far the worst defender on the team and in the NBA by every metric available.
He has been worse for Utah than Payton has been to the Magic and he has injury concerns to boot. But, he is definitely a better prospect for this team, and he might even look signicantly better. I don't know who's the better player, but objectively, digging into the numbers, Hood has been worse.

Clarkson is a wild card though. I think he is perhaps better than Payton, but he is paid signicantly more and teams weren't going to bite on that price tag, and they just weren't willing to offer Magic any help.

I do think Clarkson can improve and round himself into a more complete player... let's see how it goes.

Don't you think we paid a bit too in the Lakers trade and in the Utah trade(considering Crowder's value was by far than both of them combined considering his impact and contract just a few months ago).?

I don't think we overpaid at all. I really think all of the players are going to fit in, and look good next to LJ. I think Hood is a guy who will flourish, he was having a down year, which is why we got him so cheap. It all is a risk, but we got younger faster and players who can shoot and fit with the team. Hill and Hood are great 3 point shooters that fit with LJ on the court. I agree the defense does scare me thought.