Tristan Thompson

[TitleTown]

I'm not saying we could get much, but a young prospect or couple of 2nds is a whole lot better than letting him sit and getting nothing.

It may not be. I'd rather give every second of TT's playing time to literally ANYONE else.

 

[TitleTown]

So you need to play a few young players on the court with two or three legit NBA players in order to get the best out of the young players. Otherwise you are just running the Canton Charge out there every night against the real NBA.

Yes, I totally agree. Frye, Hill, Korver, and Love are those guys.

TT is not.

 

[arglebargle]

So you need to play a few young players on the court with two or three legit NBA players in order to get the best out of the young players. Otherwise you are just running the Canton Charge out there every night against the real NBA.

Agree in a lot of respects. This makes an assumption that the young players you have a capable of developing into top-level talents. NBA teams don't win championships without top-level talent. That kind of talent doesn't come along often with non-lottery picks. The last thing you want is to be one of those perpetually 41-41 teams who never sniff a championship, but are never bad enough to get a chance at a great player or two.

As long as Kevin Love isn't the difference between a top-10 pick and a first-round sweep at the hands of the Celtics, they might as well keep him here. If he's going to be good enough to help them into the first round, I'd rather they ditch him. We need that pick.

 

[Pjlea28]

We are sooooo stuck with this idiot unless we would make a move to take on a worse contract and there are not many of those to pick from.

 

[Randolphkeys]

That kind of talent doesn't come along often with non-lottery picks. The last thing you want is to be one of those perpetually 41-41 teams who never sniff a championship, but are never bad enough to get a chance at a great player or two.

Getting an All Star level talent to develop outside of the lottery is rare but does happen. Off the top of my head Paul Millsap, Marc Gasol, DeAndre Jordan, and Kyle Korver are all examples of players who improved their deficiencies to make All Star games and are still very good players. More important in the draft process, and more numerous, are the first rounders drafted after the lottery who just became above replacement level for 30 minutes a night. If you secure very good play for 30 minutes a night from guys like Cedi, Zizic, and Clarkson - that's how a developing team becomes attractive for a marquee free agent. Sure it's great to win a lottery in a great draft with a blue chip guy available, but the NBA is making it harder to suck on purpose to get there. The Sun's have been bad more years than they have been good, and Ayton is the first #1 pick in franchise history.

 

[Mr. MacPhisto]

Agree in a lot of respects. This makes an assumption that the young players you have a capable of developing into top-level talents. NBA teams don't win championships without top-level talent. That kind of talent doesn't come along often with non-lottery picks. The last thing you want is to be one of those perpetually 41-41 teams who never sniff a championship, but are never bad enough to get a chance at a great player or two.

As long as Kevin Love isn't the difference between a top-10 pick and a first-round sweep at the hands of the Celtics, they might as well keep him here. If he's going to be good enough to help them into the first round, I'd rather they ditch him. We need that pick.

Draymond Green, Carlos Boozer, David West, Josh Howard, Mo Williams, Jameer Nelson, Danny Granger, David Lee, Rajon Rondo, Kyle Lowry, Paul Millsap, Goran Dragic, DeAndre Jordan, Roy Hibbert, Marc Gasol, Kyle Korver, Jamaal Magloire, Michael Redd, Jrue Holiday, Zach Randolph, Jeff Teague, Jimmy Butler, Isaiah Thomas, Rudy Gobert, Gilbert Arenas, Tony Parker, Mehmet Okur, Gerald Wallace. Then there are guys like Ben Wallace. Undrafted and became an All-Star (he's outside of the range for drafts I'm using). But there are guys like Wesley Matthews (pre-injury), Jeremy Lin, Malcolm Brogdon, etc that are all drafted later that aren't All-Star but can be very good

Those are the guys since 2000 that have gone after the lottery and become All-Star selections. Over one per year on average. Odds are not in favor of development, but the chance is there. Usually there is at least one player that develops after pick 16 into a strong player that gets an All-Star pick. The list above is through 2015. That's 28 All-Stars picked after the lottery in 16 drafts - nearly 2 every year. Not staggering, but less rare than most people think and more good players can be found that aren't All-Stars but can be good (we all remember Varejão quite fondly - and we liked him better than lottery pick Drew Gooden).

During that same time 49 All-Stars came from lottery picks. That's just over 3 per year.

So reality is the odds are not too far off finding an All-Star after the lottery as compared to being in the lottery. Better chances in the lottery definitely, but far from rare or unheard of. And sometimes you find special guys like Jimmy Butler. His work ethic really set him apart - and Cedi has a great one as well.

It's great to get a high pick, but remember that the only top ten pick Golden State made themselves while building a championship caliber team was Curry at 7. Klay was outside of the Top Ten and Draymond was in the 2nd Round. They added Durant later, but they were championship caliber before he came on board. ​

 

[stowfan]

Draymond Green, Carlos Boozer, David West, Josh Howard, Mo Williams, Jameer Nelson, Danny Granger, David Lee, Rajon Rondo, Kyle Lowry, Paul Millsap, Goran Dragic, DeAndre Jordan, Roy Hibbert, Marc Gasol, Kyle Korver, Jamaal Magloire, Michael Redd, Jrue Holiday, Zach Randolph, Jeff Teague, Jimmy Butler, Isaiah Thomas, Rudy Gobert, Gilbert Arenas, Tony Parker, Mehmet Okur, Gerald Wallace. Then there are guys like Ben Wallace. Undrafted and became an All-Star (he's outside of the range for drafts I'm using). But there are guys like Wesley Matthews (pre-injury), Jeremy Lin, Malcolm Brogdon, etc that are all drafted later that aren't All-Star but can be very good

Those are the guys since 2000 that have gone after the lottery and become All-Star selections. Over one per year on average. Odds are not in favor of development, but the chance is there. Usually there is at least one player that develops after pick 16 into a strong player that gets an All-Star pick. The list above is through 2015. That's 28 All-Stars picked after the lottery in 16 drafts - nearly 2 every year. Not staggering, but less rare than most people think and more good players can be found that aren't All-Stars but can be good (we all remember Varejão quite fondly - and we liked him better than lottery pick Drew Gooden).

During that same time 49 All-Stars came from lottery picks. That's just over 3 per year.

So reality is the odds are not too far off finding an All-Star after the lottery as compared to being in the lottery. Better chances in the lottery definitely, but far from rare or unheard of. And sometimes you find special guys like Jimmy Butler. His work ethic really set him apart - and Cedi has a great one as well.

It's great to get a high pick, but remember that the only top ten pick Golden State made themselves while building a championship caliber team was Curry at 7. Klay was outside of the Top Ten and Draymond was in the 2nd Round. They added Durant later, but they were championship caliber before he came on board. ​

Just to add a few Kawhi Leonard, #15 in 2011, The Greek freak went 15 as well, Steven Adams #15, Clint Capella #27, and so on. So far I'm impressed with Altman's eye for talent. That said, having a lottery pick in 2019 where we got one more young player to build with would be nice

 

[arglebargle]

It's great to get a high pick, but remember that the only top ten pick Golden State made themselves while building a championship caliber team was Curry at 7. Klay was outside of the Top Ten and Draymond was in the 2nd Round. They added Durant later, but they were championship caliber before he came on board. ​

None of this is unknown. The fact, still, is that the Cavs lose any pick next year unless it's within the bottom 10. Thus, the need for a bottom 10 pick. This team will not get better without draft picks, and the only one available to them next year is one in that range. So, whether picks outside of that range can develop or not is irrelevant. In general, there are guys who develop outside of that range, and we will need to hit on those as well, when they become available to us. IMO, it's more probable for the Cavs to get lucky and get yet another top-3 pick to nab a truly talented player than it is for them to develop a later-picked player into someone who resembles a top-tier player. The Cavs will not be nabbing top free agents. They need every draft pick they can get their hands on until the day when a young MVP candidate is again on the roster. Kevin Love is likely to be an impediment to that. He should be dealt if there is even a chance that he rids the team of this year's pick.

 

[Mr. MacPhisto]

None of this is unknown. The fact, still, is that the Cavs lose any pick next year unless it's within the bottom 10. Thus, the need for a bottom 10 pick. This team will not get better without draft picks, and the only one available to them next year is one in that range. So, whether picks outside of that range can develop or not is irrelevant. In general, there are guys who develop outside of that range, and we will need to hit on those as well, when they become available to us. IMO, it's more probable for the Cavs to get lucky and get yet another top-3 pick to nab a truly talented player than it is for them to develop a later-picked player into someone who resembles a top-tier player. The Cavs will not be nabbing top free agents. They need every draft pick they can get their hands on until the day when a young MVP candidate is again on the roster. Kevin Love is likely to be an impediment to that. He should be dealt if there is even a chance that he rids the team of this year's pick.

You're assuming they cannot alleviate a team's longer term salary issues by trading ending money for picks.

As for the pick they owe, they need to be bottom 10 for two years and then give up second rounders in drafts where younger players will likely be eligible and the G-League will be more robust for development. Conveying the pick to Atlanta next year means they know what picks they will have - unless they swing a deal with ATL to get their pick back. Taking Bazemore from ATL would give ATL spots for two max contracts next year. So that may be an option (and Bazemore > JR Smith - and Smith for Bazemore works under the cap). I might try to get our pick back and a 2nd rounder out of it (they have two in next year's draft). Or I might aim a little higher if they are desperate to dump the salary and ask for a middle first rounder - between theirs, ours, the Dallas pick, and the OKC pick. They may have four firsts next year and too many higher firsts will impede their large salary slots in a big free agency year after they have opened their rebuilt arena. I could see them being willing to trade one of those picks, so we might be able to get one close to 10 on either side.

 

[Cavatt]

You're assuming they cannot alleviate a team's longer term salary issues by trading ending money for picks.

As for the pick they owe, they need to be bottom 10 for two years and then give up second rounders in drafts where younger players will likely be eligible and the G-League will be more robust for development. Conveying the pick to Atlanta next year means they know what picks they will have - unless they swing a deal with ATL to get their pick back. Taking Bazemore from ATL would give ATL spots for two max contracts next year. So that may be an option (and Bazemore > JR Smith - and Smith for Bazemore works under the cap). I might try to get our pick back and a 2nd rounder out of it (they have two in next year's draft). Or I might aim a little higher if they are desperate to dump the salary and ask for a middle first rounder - between theirs, ours, the Dallas pick, and the OKC pick. They may have four firsts next year and too many higher firsts will impede their large salary slots in a big free agency year after they have opened their rebuilt arena. I could see them being willing to trade one of those picks, so we might be able to get one close to 10 on either side.

I think it is very risky to give up 2nds in the double draft.

 

[stowfan]

I think it is very risky to give up 2nds in the double draft.

MHO, I would happily give up the Cavs first rounder in 2020 for a lottery pick in 2019. Maybe the Gilbert kid will be blessed again and the Cavs will have a core of 3 or 4 good young players to built with. The finish touches can come through trades or free agency.

 

[Mr. MacPhisto]

MHO, I would happily give up the Cavs first rounder in 2020 for a lottery pick in 2019. Maybe the Gilbert kid will be blessed again and the Cavs will have a core of 3 or 4 good young players to built with. The finish touches can come through trades or free agency.

2020 is a deeper draft than 2019. 2019 is a weaker draft.

2020 is also a much more balanced draft. This past year was very centered on big men. Next year is more guard centered. 2020 looks to have a lot of balance a various positions.

 

[TitleTown]

2020 is a deeper draft than 2019. 2019 is a weaker draft.

2020 is also a much more balanced draft. This past year was very centered on big men. Next year is more guard centered. 2020 looks to have a lot of balance a various positions.

These projections mean almost nothing at this point. And they certainly shouldn't be the basis for decisions on what we do with future picks. At all.

 

[Mr. MacPhisto]

These projections mean almost nothing at this point. And they certainly shouldn't be the basis for decisions on what we do with future picks. At all.

That may be the case, but covering the pick clears up future drafts and doesn't requiring two bottomten finishes.

If that does end up being the case then the FO will have mud on their face.

Best thing is to get another pick and convey the pick. Have your cake and eat it to.

 

[tonyn]

Remember when people wanted to trade him for melo