Tyronn Lue has been fired

[K1rieIrving>AllOtherPG's]

WTF? Especially Byron Scott. How this guy keeps getting hired is a bigger mystery. Probably one of the worst coaches in the league IMO.

I remember the argument for Byron Scott used to be, he got his teams to the finals twice, how bad can he be? It's quite evident now that was all Jason Kidd.

I don't think Mike Brown is horrendous per se, I just thought having him coach a team that needs to be developed was laughable, and so far beyond what he's capable of doing.

That was the worst hire ever IMO.

Spoiler

 

[ACisKING]

Lue is very underrated IMO. He has basically figured out the Warriors. And he has gotten the most out of Kyrie and Kevin. But he doesn't get anywhere near the credit he deserves seemingly even amongst Cavs fans, and for the life of me I don't get why.

 

[BooyaCS]

Lue is very underrated IMO. He has basically figured out the Warriors. And he has gotten the most out of Kyrie and Kevin. But he doesn't get anywhere near the credit he deserves seemingly even amongst Cavs fans, and for the life of me I don't get why.

Lebron...

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Lue is very underrated IMO. He has basically figured out the Warriors. And he has gotten the most out of Kyrie and Kevin. But he doesn't get anywhere near the credit he deserves seemingly even amongst Cavs fans, and for the life of me I don't get why.

How do you know that it was indeed him that figured out the Warriors or that he gets most out of Kyrie and Kevin?
I know for sure that he is the one that manages the rotations and they are still not very good.
2nd, the team still can't figure out how to play without LBJ..
if he fixed both of these things then he is golden in my book.

 

[Pioneer10]

Lue is very underrated IMO. He has basically figured out the Warriors. And he has gotten the most out of Kyrie and Kevin. But he doesn't get anywhere near the credit he deserves seemingly even amongst Cavs fans, and for the life of me I don't get why.

I'll go there: the Blatt fanclub is still out there. You go to big forums like RealGM and people post stuff about how Blatt is still a better coach and no one rebuts them. It's all about he gets along better with James

 

[Chris Parker]

I'll go there: the Blatt fanclub is still out there. You go to big forums like RealGM and people post stuff about how Blatt is still a better coach and no one rebuts them. It's all about he gets along better with James

if Kyrie doesn't break his knee in Game 1 this conversation might've turned out very very differently

 

[Pioneer10]

if Kyrie doesn't break his knee in Game 1 this conversation might've turned out very very differently

<shrug> maybe: we lost a big lead that game and looked like we were on the ropes before the injury. But this type of comments goes back to about Blatt being used as an excuse for not wanting to give Lue as much credit as he deserves. I agree judging a coach when they have a great player/players is difficult as the players cover up a lot of errors but can't really see much to criticize with Lue.

Plus he does seem really really good with certain aspects (timing of TOs and play design after stop balls)

 

[Chris Parker]

<shrug> maybe: we lost a big lead that game and looked like we were on the ropes before the injury. But this type of comments goes back to about Blatt being used as an excuse for not wanting to give Lue as much credit as he deserves. I agree judging a coach when they have a great player/players is difficult as the players cover up a lot of errors but can't really see much to criticize with Lue.

Plus he does seem really really good with certain aspects (timing of TOs and play design after stop balls)

I think that's a broad stroke generalization. Is it not possible to feel that the Warriors hype has ALWAYS been overblown and the Cavs could be looking at a three-peat? And does that somehow disqualify someone from feeling that Lue has also done a good job? I think most of us would accept on face that anybody who is associated with a team that LeBron is on has a significantly higher chance of a championship. But would you then assume they felt the championship was because of LeBron? There's no transitive quality involved. Blatt was good for some things Lue is good at others both were capable of winning championships. How does feeling that make you in any way anti-Lue? One could even suggest there could be an argument made about THIS narrative.

In fact I think Lue has helped Kyrie immeasurably by doing something that Blatt did not. I talk about it in the book a little and it's become even more pronounced this year.

By allowing Kyrie to only think about the thing he does best -- attacking -- he's relieved Ky of the second-guessing which was diminishing the decisiveness of his PnR play. Kyrie wanted to be deferential when he's at his best selfishly attacking like a whirling dervish. Relieving him of ball distribution (or really traditional point guard) "responsibilities" Lue allowed Kyrie to concentrate on making defenses pay, and now that he's thoroughly comfortable with it, he's finding there are so many options to create for others when the defense is falling all over themselves unsuccessfully trying to stop him.

that change to me is part and parcel of the first thing Lue did, and it was sort of an inevitable outgrowth of trusting Kyrie to find out not just how to score at will, but eventually make others better while doing it.

 

[Pioneer10]

I think that's a broad stroke generalization. Is it not possible to feel that the Warriors hype has ALWAYS been overblown and the Cavs could be looking at a three-peat? And does that somehow disqualify someone from feeling that Lue has also done a good job? I think most of us would accept on face that anybody who is associated with a team that LeBron is on has a significantly higher chance of a championship. But would you then assume they felt the championship was because of LeBron? There's no transitive quality involved. Blatt was good for some things Lue is good at others both were capable of winning championships. How does feeling that make you in any way anti-Lue? One could even suggest there could be an argument made about THIS narrative.

In fact I think Lue has helped Kyrie immeasurably by doing something that Blatt did not. I talk about it in the book a little and it's become even more pronounced this year.

By allowing Kyrie to only think about the thing he does best -- attacking -- he's relieved Ky of the second-guessing which was diminishing the decisiveness of his PnR play. Kyrie wanted to be deferential when he's at his best selfishly attacking like a whirling dervish. Relieving him of ball distribution (or really traditional point guard) "responsibilities" Lue allowed Kyrie to concentrate on making defenses pay, and now that he's thoroughly comfortable with it, he's finding there are so many options to create for others when the defense is falling all over themselves unsuccessfully trying to stop him.

that change to me is part and parcel of the first thing Lue did, and it was sort of an inevitable outgrowth of trusting Kyrie to find out not just how to score at will, but eventually make others better while doing it.

TBH I think this is a classic rhetorical maneuver to take away the impact of Blatt's fandom has done for Lue's perception. What one feels maybe completely accurate but what one feels to borrow very liberally from Trotsky may not be what the dialectic perceives from the same base set of facts. Lue has actually won a title not just capable and doesn't seem to much recognition even on this board (it's been gravedug to bring attention) and clearly noted in other more general basketball forums.

Riley is an interesting example: he took over from Paul Westhead who unlike Blatt won a title with the Lakers and he did it again with SVG. I don't think there is any doubt that Riley even before he left the Lakers was a good to great coach (if nothing else for the zone err two man trap defense he designed for the Lakers). Yet we get very little discussion with Lue outside of ironically a lot of GS fans on RealGM who feels the Cavs relentlessly go after GS weaknesses.

 

[Chris Parker]

TBH I think this is a classic rhetorical maneuver
...
we get very little discussion with Lue outside of ironically a lot of GS fans on RealGM who feels the Cavs relentlessly go after GS weaknesses.

Classical rhetorical maneuver like ignoring the positive comments about Lue made in the very same comment to concentrate on point you were making?

Or better, why does it have to be either/or with your guys? Can't you like Sprite and Coke in different ways, or is that not allowed?

 

[Pioneer10]

Classical rhetorical maneuver like ignoring the positive comments about Lue made in the very same comment to concentrate on point you were making?

Or better, why does it have to be either/or with your guys? Can't you like Sprite and Coke in different ways, or is that not allowed?

Hmm: back to my original post:

I'll go there: the Blatt fanclub is still out there. You go to big forums like RealGM and people post stuff about how Blatt is still a better coach and no one rebuts them. It's all about he gets along better with James

then my rebuttal:

What one feels maybe completely accurate but what one feels to borrow very liberally from Trotsky may not be what the dialectic perceives from the same base set of facts.

Ignoring positive comments is the opposite of what I was saying as noted

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

I think Blatt had his shortcomings, I had some problem with his defensive scheme against the Warriors when he gambled on certain Warrior players to missthe open 3 or let the Warriors get inside the paint and gamble on whether Mozgov was able to contest the shot at the rim.
GSW and Green in particular are good passers so that tactic wasn't very good once Green was going inside, he is a very good decision maker with the ball.

Now, Lue is able or the team as a whole stop the Warriors completely without gambling. Although they do have much better personnel to do so, deeper team and the Big 3 that are playing much better for the coach that at the end of the day they prefer to play for.(except for Kyrie who I believe loved Blatt).

I believe Blatt would have made that team play better with James on the floor, I sometimes loved seeing his motion offense once Delly was on the floor with the other bench warmers.

Lue is just the better coach for this squad but in no way do I think he is the better coach overall. But we have no way of knowing this.

Anyways, I think the Cavs were better in game 1 of the 2015 finals till Kyrie got injured and I 100% believe the Cavs would have taken the ship in 2015. actually they were better than GSW right until they were too fatigued to keep fighting.

 

[gourimoko]

Lue is just the better coach for this squad but in no way do I think he is the better coach overall. But we have no way of knowing this.

This is @Pioneer10 's point...

Why would you say "Lue is just the better coach for this squad but in no way do I think he is the better coach overall" and then immediately acknowledge "But we have no way of knowing this."

It's irrational.

You have no way of knowing that Blatt is a better NBA coach overall compared to Lue, yet, you equate the two anyway even with the implication that Blatt could/would be better with a different squad - because for some reason Lue is "just the better coach for this squad." How does this make sense?

What does Lue have to do to demonstrate he's the better coach? Win a championship? Get a handle on a disjointed team of prima donnas? Make a team of athletes play like a team of athletes?

How long do we discount what Lue has achieved in order to prop up Blatt far beyond his accomplishments in the NBA? It's getting to the point of being a bit weird... in the worst way.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

This is @Pioneer10 's point...

Why would you say "Lue is just the better coach for this squad but in no way do I think he is the better coach overall" and then immediately acknowledge "But we have no way of knowing this."

It's irrational.

You have no way of knowing that Blatt is a better NBA coach overall compared to Lue, yet, you equate the two anyway even with the implication that Blatt could/would be better with a different squad - because for some reason Lue is "just the better coach for this squad." How does this make sense?

What does Lue have to do to demonstrate he's the better coach? Win a championship? Get a handle on a disjointed team of prima donnas? Make a team of athletes play like a team of athletes?

How long do we discount what Lue has achieved in order to prop up Blatt far beyond his accomplishments in the NBA? It's getting to the point of being a bit weird... in the worst way.

I think my post was perfectly clear and fair. I added "But we have no way of knowing this" at the last moment cause I felt obligated in a way.
What has Lue done up until this point before he took a team with LBJ and the other 2 superstars? he was an assistant coach but without a lot of experience.
I'm basing my opinion just for the fact that Blatt has achieved a lot in his long stint in europe and is a well respected coach for long ass time. Now he may not be very good NBA coach, we don't have enough data right now (but i'm sue he will come back to a young team with promise in 2 years) but Blatt was a damn good coach in europe.

I just can't tell you that I have faith in Lue if he coached a team without a trancendent superstar like LBJ that understands the game so well and acts as the coach on the court. You can see that the team just don't know what to do when he is off the floor so that has to be somewhaton the coach, don't you think?
I think any coach can look good with LBJ on his side.

But yes, Blatt was a bit awkward with the players and just didn't fit while the players seem to love playing for Lue and they are playing just fine but I still find myself dissatisfied with some parts of his coaching.

 

[Douglar]

This is How long do we discount what Lue has achieved in order to prop up Blatt far beyond his accomplishments in the NBA? It's getting to the point of being a bit weird... in the worst way.[/USER]

Lue's been a great coach for the Cavs. The team is happy in the locker room. Games are getting won. The players seem to understand and enjoy the play calls. Noone is trying to call timeouts that we don't have. It's like a night and day difference from the previous regime.

View: https://twitter.com/cavsdan/status/813146952464498688