Tyronn Lue has been fired

[The Red Viper]

Tyronn Lue is the man. He's a great coach. Tons of playing experience and good coaching experience prior to getting this job, playing next to and coaching under some of the all time greats. Clearly is a good fit with our players. Clearly has the ability to reach ALL the players on this roster. Clearly has demonstrated excellent strategic acumen, both in macro gameplanning and in micro adjustments and in bounds plays/plays out of timeouts.

To date, there is not a single glaring weakness he exhibits. If we do not punish/downgrade Pop, Riley, Phil, Doc, and Spo for coaching stacked teams, there is no reason to do that for Lue.

So given all that, it's entirely irrelevant to me comparing the various differences and experiences of Lue vs. Blatt. We have a great coach who is great for this team on the whole and for all three of his superstars. So I'm not really concerned with what other coaches or previous coaches might do with the 2017 and beyond Cavs.

Of course all that said, I do agree with @gourimoko that Lue also happens to be a superior coach for this team and roster than Blatt was and not just for personality reasons. But again, it's really irrelevant to me, as I see us with a perfect fit at head coach currently, with numerous metrics and approaches to support that he is a perfect fit. As he's only been a head coach for less than one calendar year, it's pointless to try and pinpoint where is is historically in the pantheon of coaches. That can be examined in due time.

One thing I find it very fascinating is just how much players who have played with Ty gush about him. One of the most important aspects of coaching, especially in modern era, is man management and handling the egos and players in locker room. There is a reason why our team is responding to Ty so well and why Love thanked Ty after the NBA Finals. There is a reason why players who played with or coached Ty talk about him so fondly. The man is a genuine stud.

 

[The Red Viper]

But that's what I was saying.. I didn't intend to make this convo so damn long. I don't even remember why we brought up this conversation.
All I was saying is that Blatt would have been a champion also if it wasn't for the freak injury of Kyrie. That's it.
It's undeniable that Lue is better for this team, that's it.

Yep.

I think this is what some including @gourimoko wanted to know.

Anyway, now that we have cleared it up, lets move on!

 

[gourimoko]

Jesus Fucking Christ.

Its almost been a year since we fired Blatt.

In the meantime, we have won a FUCKING NBA CHAMPIONSHIP. The team's chemistry is off the charts. Our three best players are playing how we imagined them to be playing when we got them initially. YET we are still talking about Blatt?

Seriously guys. Do we need to bring in Blatt everytime there is a discussion about Ty?

Blatt is gone. Whatever may be the reasons, things didn't pan out as we had hoped.

That doesn't make Blatt a bad coach. He was and is a good coach. May be just the right one for us.

I hear what you're saying bro, but, I think the problem is that we seem to be stuck in this loop of Blatt being just as good as Lue, so, we can't evaluate Lue compared to the previous coach, which creates somewhat of a problem.. particularly on a sports message board where we always compare players to players and coaches to coaches. Yet, for some reason, Blatt is off limits?

I think the problem is that Blatt is somehow treated as this great coach who just didn't fit; and we have to accept this presumption as fact which invariably means we can't elevate Lue above him based on their results.

This goes back to @Pioneer10 and @Douglar 's points a page back...

It's irrational thinking, and requires misremembering history in order to participate. Frankly, I'm good on this kind of nonsensical hero worship. Blatt wasn't a good coach during his time in the NBA. I'm not sure why we need to pretend that he was?

 

[gourimoko]

You are a smart ass aren't you? lol
Blatt had to deal with a lot of different rosters, at first he had no one on the team, he had no Mozgov, JR and Shump and yet he was still being criticized non stop eventhough he had a terrible roster outside of the BIG 3 and Lebron was really struggling at the start if you remember, he was bad. Do you think that the Lebron Blatt had is anywhere near the Lebron we see now?

LeBron struggled for the first half of Blatt's first season. The LeBron we see now is a product of a combination of things, including Ty Lue and the gelling of this team.

Then the trades are made and the Cavs play their best basketball(Yes, better than they do now).

They played great basketball, but, I wouldn't say better than they are now. Kevin Love is actually an integral piece to our team today; it's not just 2-man show any longer. That's important. It means we can depend on Love winning us games. He doesn't get benched in 4th quarters. And he's no longer an afterthought that turns into a liability against specific matchups. Now he's the matchup problem.

Kyrie gets injured and so does Mozgov. Blatt starts his 2nd year without Kyrie and with Mozgov being a big net negative so he basically has the team going for 30-11 without Mozgov and Kyrie and no Frye. Kyrie was inserted slowly, he wasn't himself and he was playing limited minutes with no b2bs.

Kyrie didn't really even play much until Lue took over, but again, going back to the 30-11, just to be clear, Lue's record today is better than that... You can point to various times where Blatt had to deal with injuries, surely, and Lue will have to deal with the same thing in the future; but this doesn't negate the point. Blatt did not have a better record than Lue. Blatt didn't do a better job coaching the team than Lue has thus far.

Don't downplay it too, Frye is a huge addition to this team, he makes a huge different and the Cavs don't look quite the same without him.

Frye is a huge addition, but that addition does not outweigh the loss of Delly and Mozgov.

I'm logging off now.. good night.

Later.

 

[The Red Viper]

I hear what you're saying bro, but, I think the problem is that we seem to be stuck in this loop of Blatt being just as good as Lue, so, we can't evaluate Lue compared to the previous coach, which creates somewhat of a problem.. particularly on a sports message board where we always compare players to players and coaches to coaches. Yet, for some reason, Blatt is off limits?

I think the problem is that Blatt is somehow treated as this great coach who just didn't fit; and we have to accept this presumption as fact which invariably means we can't elevate Lue above him based on their results.

This goes back to @Pioneer10 and @Douglar 's points a page back...

It's irrational thinking, and requires misremembering history in order to participate. Frankly, I'm good on this kind of nonsensical hero worship. Blatt wasn't a good coach during his time in the NBA. I'm not sure why we need to pretend that he was?

I won't say he wasn't a good coach, Gouri.

I think he was a good coach. Just not the right coach or the best possible coach for us.

Anyway, the reason I think we should stop comparing is because its been a year. Blatt has another job now. We have achieved a lot in this meantime. I think its time we move on from him.

I feel at this point, we should be able to praise/criticize Ty without bringing Blatt into the discussion considering how things have transpired.

 

[gourimoko]

Yep.

I think this is what some including @gourimoko wanted to know.

Anyway, now that we have cleared it up, lets move on!

Yes, my only point is that the "this team" qualifier is a bit misleading considering both have ever only coached for one NBA franchise.

As far as the NBA is concerned; Lue > Blatt.

Shouldn't be that hard for people to admit..

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Yep.

I think this is what some including @gourimoko wanted to know.

Anyway, now that we have cleared it up, lets move on!

But I said it from the start. I just don't think Blatt was a bad coach, just bad circumstances. But that's enough talk about Blatt.
You all remember the bad things but after the trades it was damn fun team to watch.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Gour, i'll take off my disagree if you take yours. Deal?

 

[ACisKING]

I'll go there: the Blatt fanclub is still out there. You go to big forums like RealGM and people post stuff about how Blatt is still a better coach and no one rebuts them. It's all about he gets along better with James

I think there may be some truth to this. I specifically recall how even on this forum, every Cavs win would result in pages of posts extolling Blatt's virtues. But the same doesn't seem to be the case with Lue irrespective of how well the Cavs do.

And, as another poster said, there is a perception that LeBron coaches the team and that Lue is just along for the ride. Yet we have seen story after story about how Lue isn't afraid to take LeBron (or anyone else) to task.

However, regardless of how little respect the fans of the NBA seem to give Lue, I do think that Lue's x's and o's are getting increasing respect from commentators and the analytic community. Just this morning,for instance, Nate Duncan and Danny Leroux were saying on their podcast how Lue coached a brilliant game and how great his after-timeout play was late in the game. And former players and coaches seem to love Lue (they always talk about him positively on Sirius NBA radio). So maybe Lue will get the respect he deserves as the Cavs continue to win.

 

[gourimoko]

Gour, i'll take off my disagree if you take yours. Deal?

It's not that deep man..

I removed it nonetheless.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

It's not that deep man..

I removed it nonetheless.

Yeah, it was a joke.. I'll keep the disagree till tomorrow cause I feel like I earned it.
It's time for me to step up my Disagree game.

 

[buzzdog]

So many people denigrated Lue after the coaching change. Lots of folks wanted Lue fired for an established head coach, so many thought he'd never coach this team to a championship whenever things got a little sluggish during Lue's short stint of his first regular season.

I loved Blatt but I absolutely had to believe that Griffin had compelling reasons to make the change otherwise he wouldn't have changed horses mid-stream. So even though I thought it was disturbing when it happened I was immediately able to roll with it.

Bottom line, Griffin was right, period.

 

[Douglar]

I'd go as far as to say that Blatt was complete bust and an NBA coach. I'd be surprised to see him ever come back.

NBA coaches are paid to get up on a podium several times a week and not embarrass themselves or their team. Blatt was temperamentally unfit to deal with the US press and made enemies for no reason and said head scratching things on a regular basis. NBA coaches need to be able to control a bunch of spoiled, entitled 20 year old millionaires. Blatt's relationship with his stars was so poor that at times that their behavior bordered on out-right mutiny.

But what about the basketball? Maybe he was some sort of basketball savant in Europe, but his basketball coaching in Cleveland looked severely flawed. He couldn't get in bounds plays to work. The offense frequently looked constipated. The team frequently seemed to under perform. The team lost a game on purpose because they were so unhappy with him. For God's sake, Blatt tried to call a timeout that he didn't have when a playoff game was on the line. That's just undeniable coaching incompetence. That just doesn't happen on the NBA level. Anyone who does that is not fit to be an NBA coach.

Some may feel Blatt got an "incomplete" grade in the NBA because of playoff injuries in 2015 and because he got fired before he could take the team back. Whatever. It's a cute little rhetorical place to live. It's a safe, dark little cave where people have a hard time beating on your emotional opinions with cold hard logic. Have fun there, but it doesn't make Blatt look like an NBA success.

Lue has been great. He plays the press like a harp. Seems like the players would take a bullet for the guy. The team is playing like everyone thought it should when three legit max players where brought together. He won a stinkin' ring. He stopped Blatt from calling that timeout back in 2015. What more does the guy have to do to be a better NBA coach than Blatt?

 

[TitleTown]

Lue = championship.

Blatt = champagne smell in locker room.

(Hint: this is a metaphor)

 

[gourimoko]

I'd go as far as to say that Blatt was complete bust and an NBA coach. I'd be surprised to see him ever come back.

NBA coaches are paid to get up on a podium several times a week and not embarrass themselves or their team. Blatt was temperamentally unfit to deal with the US press and made enemies for no reason and said head scratching things on a regular basis. NBA coaches need to be able to control a bunch of spoiled, entitled 20 year old millionaires. Blatt's relationship with his stars was so poor that at times that their behavior bordered on out-right mutiny.

But what about the basketball? Maybe he was some sort of basketball savant in Europe, but his basketball coaching in Cleveland looked severely flawed. He couldn't get in bounds plays to work. The offense frequently looked constipated. The team frequently seemed to under perform. The team lost a game on purpose because they were so unhappy with him. For God's sake, Blatt tried to call a timeout that he didn't have when a playoff game was on the line. That's just undeniable coaching incompetence. That just doesn't happen on the NBA level. Anyone who does that is not fit to be an NBA coach.

Some may feel Blatt got an "incomplete" grade in the NBA because of playoff injuries in 2015 and because he got fired before he could take the team back. Whatever. It's a cute little rhetorical place to live. It's a safe, dark little cave where people have a hard time beating on your emotional opinions with cold hard logic. Have fun there, but it doesn't make Blatt look like an NBA success.

Lue has been great. He plays the press like a harp. Seems like the players would take a bullet for the guy. The team is playing like everyone thought it should when three legit max players where brought together. He won a stinkin' ring. He stopped Blatt from calling that timeout back in 2015. What more does the guy have to do to be a better NBA coach than Blatt?

So.. what you mean to say is.. Blatt's a really great coach; maybe the best ever, right?

I mean, if I'm reading you right (and I'm not, lol), then what you're really saying is that Blatt is the hero Cleveland deserves, but just not the one it needs right now? Is that right? Because surely, Blatt is the next Popovich.. Just none of us are smart enough to understand him... He'll go down as the next Mozart, the next Newton, he's the Chosen One of all sports... Surely this is what you mean to say, right?