Welcome 8th Pick from Brooklyn

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

To be fair, back-to-backs are rare in the Euro schedule and he was probably a little flat after carrying a big load yesterday. Disappointing game for him nonetheless.

I don't think I would be happy if we picked Doncic.

I don't care how he shot the ball, I don't care about the misses. He has issues that scare me on top of issues like being a 18 year old foreigner and coming to the NBA with endless expectations on a contender with Lebron James.

I don't think he is ready to be that guy. He gets frustrated too easily, he gets emotional, it's just too big for him right now.

Seriously, how many highly touted European players came into the league and were impactful in the 1st few years? less than a handful, then you add the fact that most of them were Bigs and some of them were pure scorers and not point guards and it gets a bit scary... also, the better your english is and how familiar you are with american culture, the easier and faster it is for european players to fit in. Luka's english is poor... how is he going to fit in with Lebron while having the expectations of a top 2 pick and being a future heir to Lebron?

Even so, talent prevails, but what i'm seeing even in that aspect is worrisome. A lot of the time when you put a big athletic guy on him he struggles. He forces things, he settles for 3's that he has no business taking, he has problems getting in to the heart of the defense , and when he does he settles for a lot of mid range jumpers and floaters, and for now he gets by much like Young with his free throws that are at times questionable.

His passing game has also regressed in my opinion. not necessarily his execution, but his passing opportunities are way down. Too often I see passing angles that were once there, no longer there, whether it's because of the team switching a big on him, whether it's because he can't take his man off the dribble or because he just looks to score in isolation way too much... and it's not high efficiency isolation, it's just over dribble step back jumpers that now just don't go in.

He is not very creative off the ball and his athleticism limits his ceiling as an off-ball player if his shot isn't great in the NBA. It's super important to be a great off-ball player playing with Lebron James. It doesn't seem like he has a great first step, so I worry that playing off-ball will be limited to mostly Spot ups.

Defensively, i'm having problems with him and seeing where he fits. I mean, obviously it would have been optimal if he could defend the ball handler because it would force teams to go big to match up with him, but if he doesn't, you have to put a decent PG defender or a traditional PG and that lowers the team's ceiling and his on both ends of the floor. When you try to make him guard 4's he just gets overpowered in the post, so having him guard the ball handler and just switch full time in the NBA isn't going to work, at least at first.

Is he going to be able to guard the the better SFs in the NBA?

There are a lot of question marks for Doncic and they are even more amplified on this team. I would rather have other teams pick him and try to enjoy his gifts elsewhere than worry about him. The risk/reward isn't worth it when you have such great prospects that don't have the same question marks and can be effective in more limited playing time/role. He just demands too much.

I love European prospects, as they are often much more fundamentally sound which makes for great role players, and there are times where you get a combination of fundamentals, size and skill and you get a Dirk, Kirilenko, Gasol, Porzingis type of prospect that is so unique in the NBA landscape... Is Doncic going to be this unique in the NBA other than being a very very advanced 18 year old 6'8 PG? Is he PG in the NBA even? How would he be rated if he were a considered a great passing SF?

Doncic reminds me of Lebron if he never had the athletic ability, inside finishing ability and the defensive versatility. Doesn't sound too too bad, but when I look at Doncic I picture him similar to how we see Lebron now that teams just switch a big defender on him to force an isolation... but the difference is that Doncic doesn't have the same 3pt shot, explosiveness(even at this stage) and finishing ability to make them pay(that unless he develops a very good 3pt shot).

I'm not saying that Doncic isn't going to be a great great player eventually, but I'm genuinely afraid for his fit on this team.

*I moved your quote from the Draft thread.

 

[Nathan S]

I don't think I would be happy if we picked Doncic.

I don't care how he shot the ball, I don't care about the misses. He has issues that scare me on top of issues like being a a 18 year old foreigner and coming to the NBA with endless expectations on a contender with Lebron James.

I don't think he is ready to be that guy. He gets frustrated too easily, he gets emotional, it's just too big for him right now.

I agree with all of this, but these are common issues that many 18 year olds deal with. It just sticks out more in his case because he's surrounded with grown men instead of players his own age.

Seriously, how many highly touted European players came into the league and were impactful in the 1st few years? less than a handful, then you add the fact that most of them were Bigs and some of them were pure scorers and not point guards and it gets a bit scary... also, the better your english is and how familiar you are with american culture, the easier and faster it is for european players to fit in. Luka's english is poor... how is he going to fit in with Lebron while having the expectations of a top 2 pick and a future heir to Lebron?

This is also true, but as has been said many times before, those "highly touted European players" just aren't similar to Doncic as prospects. They're all either way older (e.g. Teodosic this year) or wildly inferior in terms of basketball skills (Bender, Ntilikina). It's also worth noting that Doncic's already gone through the new language new culture adjustment once in his life and it hardly slowed him down, so I think realistically it'll be a minor speedbump for him to improve his English and adjust to life in America.

Even so, talent prevails, but what i'm seeing even in that aspect is worrisome. Every fucking time you put a big athletic guy on him he struggles. He forces things, he settles for 3's that he has no business taking, he has problems getting in to the heart of the defense , and when he does he settles for a lot of mid range jumpers and floaters, and for now he gets by much like Young with his free throws that are at times questionable.

His passing game has also regressed in my opinion. not necessarily his execution, but his passing opportunities are way down. Too often I see passing angles that were once there, no longer there, whether it's because of the team switching a big on him, whether it's because he can't take his man off the dribble or because he just looks to score in isolation way too much... and it's not high efficiency isolation, it's just over dribble step back jumpers that now just don't go in.

He is not very creative off the ball and his athleticism limits his ceiling as an off-ball player if his shot isn't great in the NBA. It's super important to be a great off-ball player playing with Lebron James. It doesn't seem like he has a great first step, so I worry that playing off-ball will be limited to mostly Spot ups.

Part of this falls on his team...in the three games of the Copa Del Rey tournament, while Doncic had 13 assists and 2 turnovers, his teammates combined for 18 assists and 24 turnovers. He would have much more success, I think, playing on a team that has at least one other reliable offensive creator.

Defensively, i'm having problems with him and seeing where he fits. I mean, obviously it would have been optimal if he could defend the ball handler because it would force teams to go big to match up with him, but if he doesn't, you have to put a decent PG defender or a traditional PG and that lowers his ceiling on both ends of the floor or him and the team. When you try to make him guard 4's he just gets overpowered in the post, so having him guard the ball handler and just switch full time in the NBA isn't going to work, at least at first.

I don't think this is true. As I've pointed out before, I think his size actually gives you more flexibility with lineups. For instance, when LeBron's on the bench we could hypothetically run a Hood-Cedi-Korver-Doncic-Nance lineup. That wouldn't work with a traditional point guard in place of Doncic.

Is he going to be able to guard the the better SFs in the NBA?

No, but again, not a realistic expectation. What rookie comes into the league and immediately holds his own against the LeBrons and Durants of the world?

There are a lot of question marks for Doncic and they are even more amplified on this team. I would rather have other teams pick him and try to enjoy his gifts elsewhere than worry about him. The risk/reward isn't worth it when you have such great prospects that don't have the same question marks and can be effective in more limited playing time/role. He just demands too much.

I love European prospects, as they are often much more fundamentally sound which makes for great role players, and there are times where you get a combination of fundamentals, size and skill and you get a Dirk, Kirilenko, Gasol, Porzingis type of prospect that is so unique in the NBA landscape... Is Doncic going to be this unique in the NBA other than being a very very advanced 18 year old 6'8 PG? Is he PG in the NBA even? How would he be rated if he were a considered a great passing SF?

Doncic reminds me of Lebron if he never had the athletic ability, inside finishing ability and the defensive versatility. Doesn't sound too too bad, but when I look at Doncic I picture him similar to how we see Lebron now that teams just switch a big defender on him to force an isolation... but the difference is that Doncic doesn't have the same 3pt shot, explosiveness(even at this stage) and finishing ability to make them pay(that unless he develops a very good 3pt shot).

I'm not saying that Doncic isn't going to be a great great player eventually, but I'm genuinely afraid for his fit on this team.

*I moved your quote from the Draft thread.

I do think it's important to evaluate Doncic as a point guard offensively rather than a great passing wing. Like, Dario Saric was touted as a great passing Euro wing. He managed 2 assists and 12 turnovers in his 18-year-old Euroleague season. Those two passes I highlighted yesterday are pure alchemy. If the first one had been a millisecond slower or half a degree off in either direction it would've been a turnover. With the second pass, he sold his no-look so well he tricked the defender into leaving one of the best shooters on the planet open in the corner. Either of them would be on the short list of highlights for any other 18-year-old point guard, and he does that shit every day.

 

[Mr. MacPhisto]

There are a lot of questions depending on where the pick falls and how other teams value players such as Doncic. Phoenix and ATL both have three firsts, so getting ahead of one or both creates the possibility to getting multiple picks in return for one - or adding future picks.

This ultimately comes down to what Altman thinks. Does he move it for a vet? Does he have several players graded the same or near the same? If Doncic, Ayton, Bagley, and Porter are all graded nearly the same and you get a good haul to trade your pick do you do so and build your assets.

Let's say Phoenix comes knocking. Is Doncic better than Porter + Mikal Bridges in trade? Just theoreticals and a lot depends on the draft and what happens (does Miami stay at 8 or do they fall and end up with a pick in the 12-14 range?).

There are so many questions we do not have the answer to because we don't know where the pick will land or how the FO will see the players. If Cedi continues to improve and the new guys continue to mesh, I think we may have some confidence in Altman's abilities to evaluate talent and make tough decisions.

But with Phoenix and Atlanta having extra picks, getting ahead of them could mean more assets for the Cavs in possible trades if either one falls in love with someone as a gamechanger.

And if multiple picks/players rights do come into play, there's always the possibility of adding a talented rookie and trading another as part of a trade for a vet. I was pretty impressed with what Altman was able to get just over a week ago. I'm excited to see what he can manage come draft time. Though he seems to like the idea of getting younger.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

These last 5 days with no Nets games have been the least stressful days of my life

Can't wait for my blood pressure to spike again Thursday!

 

[czvo]

There are a lot of questions depending on where the pick falls and how other teams value players such as Doncic. Phoenix and ATL both have three firsts, so getting ahead of one or both creates the possibility to getting multiple picks in return for one - or adding future picks.

This ultimately comes down to what Altman thinks. Does he move it for a vet? Does he have several players graded the same or near the same? If Doncic, Ayton, Bagley, and Porter are all graded nearly the same and you get a good haul to trade your pick do you do so and build your assets.

Let's say Phoenix comes knocking. Is Doncic better than Porter + Mikal Bridges in trade? Just theoreticals and a lot depends on the draft and what happens (does Miami stay at 8 or do they fall and end up with a pick in the 12-14 range?).

There are so many questions we do not have the answer to because we don't know where the pick will land or how the FO will see the players. If Cedi continues to improve and the new guys continue to mesh, I think we may have some confidence in Altman's abilities to evaluate talent and make tough decisions.

But with Phoenix and Atlanta having extra picks, getting ahead of them could mean more assets for the Cavs in possible trades if either one falls in love with someone as a gamechanger.

And if multiple picks/players rights do come into play, there's always the possibility of adding a talented rookie and trading another as part of a trade for a vet. I was pretty impressed with what Altman was able to get just over a week ago. I'm excited to see what he can manage come draft time. Though he seems to like the idea of getting younger.

If the Cavs were able to jump ahead of the Suns, and the Suns offered two firsts, including a top-6, I'd say you absolutely make that move. You're just giving the team that much more flexibility.

 

[gaitano]

My boss doubles as an assistant (x) for Kentucky Wildcats, any one have questions on Kevin Knox?

 

[Heej]

Doncic's athleticism concerns compared to other NCAA prospects stand out more because he's playing against grown men. The other collegians are still playing against children comparatively speaking. It does more for his development imo.

 

[Ethan]

Look at a guy like Klay thompson. Even in the paint he is hard to stop. He is the same size and is not super athletic either.
I think Luka has better handles, so he can use that to create space, he already knows how to score.
Now imagine if he grew another inch or two and improved his shooting. Watch out.

 

[TheBigAristotle]

If LeBron signs a long term deal than I don't think we should keep this pick. We should trade TT + Pick (and maybe even Cedi) for either Steven Adams or sign&trade Demarcus Cousins to upgrade our weakest roster spot.

 

[MirORich]

If LeBron signs a long term deal than I don't think we should keep this pick. We should trade TT + Pick (and maybe even Cedi) for either Steven Adams or sign&trade Demarcus Cousins to upgrade our weakest roster spot.

Cousins: may not be ready to play until January. Very little track record of big men coming back from Achilles years. A S&T for Cousins or any FA would lock the Cavs into the hard cap and that will be very difficult to do given our current set up.

Adams: zero evidence OKC has any plans on trading him. Still young. Gets better every year. Locked up for three more years. Where’s their motivation to move him?

Not saying we might not consider trading the draft rights of who ever we elect along with someone like TT or JR, but just not seeing it with the two players you mentioned.

 

[TitleTown]

If LeBron signs a long term deal than I don't think we should keep this pick. We should trade TT + Pick (and maybe even Cedi) for either Steven Adams or sign&trade Demarcus Cousins to upgrade our weakest roster spot.

Adams will not be available. At all. Especially if it's for TT + anything.

OKC's general manager should be fired for even taking calls about Adams.

 

[TheBigAristotle]

My reasoning for Adams is : if Paul George leaves for L.A. then that team won't go anywhere: too good for a decent draft pick and not good enough to be considered as a serious contender.

Adams has a significant impact on their cap space. Trading Adams for a young prospect in Cedi + Potential Top 5 pick may be a gamble to get better in 2-3 years timespan.

I understand that it is a long shot, but we've got great trade assets with this pick, Cedi and young players and we should only target a deal for the right player

 

[TitleTown]

My reasoning for Adams is : if Paul George leaves for L.A. then that team won't go anywhere: too good for a decent draft pick and not good enough to be considered as a serious contender.

Adams has a significant impact on their cap space. Trading Adams for a young prospect in Cedi + Potential Top 5 pick may be a gamble to get better in 2-3 years timespan.

I understand that it is a long shot, but we've got great trade assets with this pick, Cedi and young players and we should only target a deal for the right player

It's not a long shot, it's a NO shot. There's ZERO chance they trade Adams if George leaves. None.

 

[Nathan S]

If PG leaves, Presti would trade every player on that roster and the floorboards for a top-5 pick in this draft.

EDIT: Not including Westbrook, to be clear

 

[TitleTown]

If PG leaves, Presti would trade every player on that roster and the floorboards for a top-5 pick in this draft.

I wouldn't trade Adams for a top 5 pick.

Now, Westbrook on the other hand...I'd trade him asap if I was Presti and someone with a high draft pick was calling.