Why the Cavs are where they are?

[Chris]

I've been talking about this with someone else. I'm curious from you long time die hards, I have a question for you (may be wrong section, not sure, if so- move it please mods, thanks and my apologies).

Why are the Cavs where they are, with over the hill talent and no draft picks? No, I don't mean just right now, I'm talking back in the early 2000s, when I was a young, casual sports fan who watched the games and cheered for what I saw on the TV and didn't spend hours perusing online forums with in depth draft and trade analysis. :chuckles: I know Paxson mismanaged the team before Ferry took over, but I've been talking to people who are telling me the Cavs should be building a "dynasty" right now but due to mismanagement, aren't.

So what gives? Why aren't we accumulating/don't we have the young talent other teams have built around their stars? OKC, Portland, Orlando. These teams have really bright futures with multiple stars who are young.

The more detailed, the better. I'm very curious, and really don't remember much beyond the general consensus that Paxson sucked at his job (I remember when he got fired and Ferry and Co came in- what could they have done differently, really?)

 

[col63onel]

I've been talking about this with someone else. I'm curious from you long time die hards, I have a question for you (may be wrong section, not sure, if so- move it please mods, thanks and my apologies).

Why are the Cavs where they are, with over the hill talent and no draft picks? No, I don't mean just right now, I'm talking back in the early 2000s, when I was a young, casual sports fan who watched the games and cheered for what I saw on the TV and didn't spend hours perusing online forums with in depth draft and trade analysis. :chuckles: I know Paxson mismanaged the team before Ferry took over, but I've been talking to people who are telling me the Cavs should be building a "dynasty" right now but due to mismanagement, aren't.

So what gives? Why aren't we accumulating/don't we have the young talent other teams have built around their stars? OKC, Portland, Orlando. These teams have really bright futures with multiple stars who are young.

The more detailed, the better. I'm very curious, and really don't remember much beyond the general consensus that Paxson sucked at his job (I remember when he got fired and Ferry and Co came in- what could they have done differently, really?)

Look no further than the drafts he conducted after being named GM in 1999

1999 - Andre Miller, who was a stud, who he then traded for Darius Miles.

2000 - Chris Mihm (actaully drafted Jamal Crawford and traded), sadly, one of his better picks.

2001 - Lasagna Flop, Brendan Haywood (who we immediately traded for Michael Doleac).

2002 - Dajuan Wagner, who was quickly out of basketball.

2003 - LeBron

2004 - Luke Jackson, quickly out of basketball

2005 - No 1st pick because he traded it for...Jiri Welsch

Of course, he did nab Carlos Boozer in 2002, and we know what happened there.

Basically, he got nothing out of the 4 pre-LeBron drafts and 2 post LeBron drafts. 6 years of no talent is hard to overcome, even for LeBron.

 

[chrisrich91]

We didn't have draft picks to build around LeBron with.

 

[theSTEREO.]

Why aren't we accumulating/don't we have the young talent other teams have built around their stars? OKC, Portland, Orlando.

Well, for one thing, those teams sucked serious balls until recently. Like, single-digit-wins sucked. That's how Seattle got so many high draft picks. When you're a lottery team for years, you get lottery players.

Portland had a great draft not too long ago by snagging Roy and Lamarcus all in the same day through draft day trades, but they were the Jailblazers for years leading up to that and had to start from nothing in 2006 or so.

This was all while the Cavs were climbing the ranks of the NBA, and you don't get high draft picks by winning 50 games each season, earning top 2, top 4 seeds in the Playoffs. If you want Seattle's pick, we should have aimed for 7 wins.

And Danny Ferry has generally drafted very well. He drafted JJ Hickson, Daniel Gibson, and Danny Green, all of which have the tools to contribute to a winning team, one of whom has All-Star potential. Shannon was a bust for the Cavs, but he helped net us Delonte in the long run, and Shaq by proxy if you consider Ben Wallace was the key to that trade.

All in all, Danny Ferry was in a crap situation, and he's done a tremendous job making it work. He turned players that are now in other teams' garbage heaps into All-Star caliber players.

Now its up to the players and the coach to play up to their potential.

 

[TheNewEra]

If you think about it, LeBron sort of hurt Cavs in longrun by being so good at a young age and not letting us get another great player next to him. JMO.

 

[theSTEREO.]

If you think about it, LeBron sort of hurt Cavs in longrun by being so good at a young age and not letting us get another great player next to him. JMO.

Yeah man, I'm super pissed at all these Playoff runs and year-to-year improvement.

Why couldn't we have just sucked balls for an extra 3 or 4 years? That way, we could have been set up to take Greg Oden at #1 two years ago, and would just this year maybe be crowning past that 40 win mark. That would be ideal for the years leading up to Lebron's free agency. That Finals run was a waste. Would have rather hit that nice early April vacation and not had the satisfaction of a competitive team.

It's a real shame that we only managed to build one of the best NBA teams in recent history with back to back 60 win seasons, and multiple real opportunities to compete for a championship. I mean , think of it. Instead of telling Lebron that we have one of the most dominant teams in the NBA for him to stick around with, we could have like, Michael Beasley or Hasheem Thabeet on this roster! Heck yeah!

What a waste. I'm super jealous of the Timberwolves sometimes. We're really blowing it.

 

[TheNewEra]

Yeah man, I'm super pissed at all these Playoff runs and year-to-year improvement.

Why couldn't we have just sucked balls for an extra 3 or 4 years. That Finals run was a waste. Would have rather hit that nice early April vacation and not had the satisfaction of a competitive team.

It's a real shame that we only managed to build one of the best NBA teams in recent history with back to back 60 win seasons, and multiple real opportunities to compete for a championship.

What a waste. I'm super jealous of the Timberwolves sometimes.

All that stuff is great and everything, but looking at our roster right now and looking at OKC roster, they have chance to build a dynasty. Just saying that it would be great if we had true running mate still in his prime with lebron for the next 10 years.

 

[theSTEREO.]

:shakehead

 

[Chris]

Thanks for the insight.

I actually agree with lbj2300. I'm not MAD about it, Stereo. He's just got a point. The Cavs, during LeBron's time here be it another month or another 10 years, will forever be putting band aids on roster holes due to this.

 

[BigErieCavsFan]

Yeah man, I'm super pissed at all these Playoff runs and year-to-year improvement.

Why couldn't we have just sucked balls for an extra 3 or 4 years? That way, we could have been set up to take Greg Oden at #1 two years ago, and would just this year maybe be crowning past that 40 win mark. That would be ideal for the years leading up to Lebron's free agency. That Finals run was a waste. Would have rather hit that nice early April vacation and not had the satisfaction of a competitive team.

It's a real shame that we only managed to build one of the best NBA teams in recent history with back to back 60 win seasons, and multiple real opportunities to compete for a championship. I mean , think of it. Instead of telling Lebron that we have one of the most dominant teams in the NBA for him to stick around with, we could have like, Michael Beasley or Hasheem Thabeet on this roster! Heck yeah!

What a waste. I'm super jealous of the Timberwolves sometimes. We're really blowing it.

Pretty brutal Stereo, when you think about it is true. Not that I would trade the good years we have had, but another lottery pick or 2 in 2004/05 sure could have helped...

 

[Chris]

Pretty brutal Stereo, when you think about it is true. Not that I would trade the good years we have had, but another lottery pick or 2 in 2004/05 sure could have helped...

That's what I mean. Obviously I'm glad we've been competitive. But we havent won anything yet, guys, and we ain't exactly looking like gang busters this year. Our future also looks bleak (as of now- we dont know what Gilbert/Ferry will do) at this point.

 

[col63onel]

It's a valid point.

Miami got the #2 pick. It ended up being Beasley, who's been hot garbage, but imagine had it been timed that Durant or Rose would be paired with Wade.

OKC got Westbrook via the same principal.

 

[Otsego Mar]

BECAUSE THEY ARE WHO THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE!

 

[Chris]

This cat also thinks the Cavs should have gotten cap space to spend in 08 and 09 and we've be in a better situation with an FA from those pools.

 

[Heej]

So Stereo, are you really saying you wouldn't sacrifice even one or 2 of those 2 round runs into the playoffs for a young star in the making to put alongside Lebron and build a dynasty around? Seems like short-term thinking to me, when the whole goal is to build a dynasty and make sure Lebron sticks around forever.

Personally I'd be more than glad to sacrifice that '06 playoffs run in order to draft Brandon Roy, Rudy Gay, or Rajon Rondo.

At this point, if we don't win it all or make it to the Finals there's is no chance in hell of Lebron staying. We really have no way of getting significantly better and putting that second guy behind him.