Why the Cavs are where they are?

[kovanovich]

Great attitude to have but I'm sick of old veterans around LBJ. Ferry needs to find a way to put young talent around him and at least one other young star. There has GOT to be a way. Just having LeBron and old guys like Jamison who just play off of him is not going to be enough. I'm convinced of it.

The thing is, no one yet has identified this young star that Ferry has missed out on. The reason is that he hasn't missed out on anyone. Young stars are almost impossible to come by unless you have a top 10 pick, preferably top 5....When the Lakers got a star in his prime to pair with Kobe (in Pau Gasol), Popovich tried to force the league to conduct an investigation.

Ferry didn't miss anyone in 2005 once Allen and Redd decided to re-sign with their teams. He didn't have the assets to do a sign and trade for Joe Johnson, again because of Paxson's mismanagement.

Look at who else was available in 2005: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2097450

No one other than Allen, Redd, and Johnson was going to be that true second option. That was the one time Ferry had cap space. Not using the space was not an option given the uncertainty of LeBron's future.

In subsequent years, Mickael Pietrus was one FA name that was mentioned in connection with the Cavs when he signed with Orlando in 2008. He'd have been a good signing and was available for what the Cavs had to offer, but Orlando paid a lot for him, arguably too much for a guy who is basically a spot up shooter. And anyway, even at his best, he's obviously not the type of player you are talking about. I won't bore you with all the other MLE type FAs the Cavs have missed out on over the years, since again none would have been a true second option.

Again, Ferry didn't have a pick in either 2005 (should have had the 13th pick) or 2007 (should've had 24th pick). Paxson didn't even leave him with second round picks those years.

Look again at the 2006 and 2008 drafts. I still think Shannon Brown, Boobie Gibson, and JJ Hickson were pretty nearly the best player available where they were picked. Hickson will probably never be quite the player you are talking about, but no one chosen after him is any more likely.

Ferry has done everything possible to get the true second star. He has schemed day and night to find a way to get Bosh here, even though that scenario was always at best a long shot. He is likely still scheming to find a way, despite his limited hand, to find some sort of advantage this coming off-season to land a big name player to pair with LeBron. Truth is that's easier said than done....And that's probably a good thing for the league. Otherwise, the top teams would have all the best players.

 

[Chris]

I'm not saying he missed one, I'm saying he needs to get one. Soon.

 

[BA_CavsFan]

I'm not saying he missed one, I'm saying he needs to get one. Soon.

Agreed. There really haven't been any opportunities for Ferry yet, but this summer there's no chance of getting a 2nd big star with the moves of the last year. Again, Ferry had to make those moves to get LeBron, but they still hurt in the long run.

 

[Chris]

Agreed. There really haven't been any opportunities for Ferry yet, but this summer there's no chance of getting a 2nd big star with the moves of the last year. Again, Ferry had to make those moves to get LeBron, but they still hurt in the long run.

If there is nothing to do in the near future, there is no reason for Lebron james to stay. I hate to say.

I hope he does obviously but I wouldnt if I were him.

 

[mAo_mAo]

Christian Eyenga is the one we are looking for.

 

[Chris]

Christian Eyenga is the one we are looking for.

*crickets*

 

[Mdog1]

So Stereo, are you really saying you wouldn't sacrifice even one or 2 of those 2 round runs into the playoffs for a young star in the making to put alongside Lebron and build a dynasty around? Seems like short-term thinking to me, when the whole goal is to build a dynasty and make sure Lebron sticks around forever.

Personally I'd be more than glad to sacrifice that '06 playoffs run in order to draft Brandon Roy, Rudy Gay, or Rajon Rondo.

At this point, if we don't win it all or make it to the Finals there's is no chance in hell of Lebron staying. We really have no way of getting significantly better and putting that second guy behind him.

We woulldn't have to sacrifice shit man. Al Jefferson could have been drafted instead of Luke and we would be set for a long long time. We also could have taken Granger, check out the blown draft thread and see who we could have taken in the 04 draft alone, it is truly disgusting to see the way that Paxson drafted. We could have had a team that had Boozer, LeBron and Jefferson.

 

[Heej]

In the 04 draft alone we could have gotten Jefferson, Biedrins, JR Smith, Josh Smith, Tony Allen, Delonte, Kevin Martin, and Ariza who all turned out to be far better pros than Luke Jackson. Mind you I didn't include all the players from that draft that were better than Luke, you nor I have the time to read that.

In 06 we didn't leave much on the board but we could have had Millsap and Leon Powe instead of Shannon.

 

[kovanovich]

If there is nothing to do in the near future, there is no reason for Lebron james to stay. I hate to say.

I hope he does obviously but I wouldnt if I were him.

I understand what you are saying and at some points I have been mildly critical of Ferry for not being willing to take a bigger risk. This year, he and the organization has done pretty much everything any fan (or LeBron James) could reasonably expect.

I don't pretend to know what LeBron is thinking, but I think the experience of this year and last should serve as reinforcement that winning a championship isn't easy, and it's not likely to be easy going to an inferior team that happens to have capspace. Maybe he feels he can go to NY and pair with Bosh or Amare with virtually no supporting cast and turn things around and win it all there. Maybe he feels he can go to Chicago and take on that whole Jordan legacy and win regardless since he will have Noah and Rose. But no one close to the team has indicated he feels this way, and this season is far from over yet.

 

[Mdog1]

Makes me want to cry.

 

[LondonCav]

 

[Heej]

^I don't see how anyone can be alright with those indefensible draft fuck ups. Luke Jackson? Really? What the hell was wrong with our scouts.

 

[Piston Observer]

When I view Danny Ferry's moves with an outsider's perspective, I feel that his goal was to try to win immediately by surrounding LeBron with veterans rather than build for the long term and let a cast of young players grow together.

Ferry isn't the only GM with this mindset, but he has acquired a number of subpar players rather than assembled a well-rounded team and not given LeBron at least one more All Star teammate who can take the heat off of him throughout his time with the Cavs.

IMHO, Ferry has done fairly well with trades, but has an abysmal draft record.

Coming into this season, Ferry has done the best he could with the hand he had, bringing in Shaq, Jamison, Parker, Moon, etc. But those were all band aids for the patchwork foundation he laid from 2005-2009.

J.J. Hickson is the only young Cav player with promise, who looks like he can be a legit supporting player. Ferry has quite a situation to deal with down the road.

Having worked with the Spurs and using the Pistons as an example, I see that Ferry wants to create a dynasty and championship organization in Cleveland. But he went about it the wrong way from day 1.

People are free to disagree and dismiss my opinion if they like.

 

[Randolphkeys]

When I view Danny Ferry's moves with an outsider's perspective, I feel that his goal was to try to win immediately by surrounding LeBron with veterans rather than build for the long term and let a cast of young players grow together.

Ferry isn't the only GM with this mindset, but he has acquired a number of subpar players rather than assembled a well-rounded team and not given LeBron at least one more All Star teammate who can take the heat off of him throughout his time with the Cavs.

IMHO, Ferry has done fairly well with trades, but has an abysmal draft record.

Coming into this season, Ferry has done the best he could with the hand he had, bringing in Shaq, Jamison, Parker, Moon, etc. But those were all band aids for the patchwork foundation he laid from 2005-2009.

J.J. Hickson is the only young Cav player with promise, who looks like he can be a legit supporting player. Ferry has quite a situation to deal with down the road.

Having worked with the Spurs and using the Pistons as an example, I see that Ferry wants to create a dynasty and championship organization in Cleveland. But he went about it the wrong way from day 1.

People are free to disagree and dismiss my opinion if they like.

The problem lies with blown high first rounders during Paxson's tenure. Unless the Cavs tried trading veterans for draft picks, which is next to impossible to pull off, this was the only avenue to explore. Rebuilding teams want to shed young veterans with long contracts or older veterans on short contracts... that is the pool from which Ferry could select.

It takes two to fuck.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

IMHO, Ferry has done fairly well with trades, but has an abysmal draft record.

Ferry's highest draft pick ever was 19th and he took Hickson with it.

Draft record can't be abysmal if you don't have any fkn picks.