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Why the Cavs are where they are?
- Thread starter Chris
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Piston Observer
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I tend to mix Paxson's picks with Ferry's.
Christian Eyenga wasn't a great selection, though, when players like Jonas Jerebko, DeJuan Blair, and Chase Budinger were available. DaJuan Summers has done well in limited playing time for Detroit. His problem is there's a minutes crunch at small forward.
Not picking in the top 10 is a major handicap. Luck and excellent scouting and evaluation are needed to find the diamonds in the rough who get overlooked.
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Boozer would've been a big help for Cleveland--if he'd kept his promise to not pursue offers and he wasn't so injury prone. This season in which he played the whole year was atypical for him.
Da_James_Gang
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Cavs had no intention for Eyenga to play now, thats why they drafted him. He has a shit load of raw talent and they want to let him develop over seas. All those guys you named wouldn't see playing time on this team.
BA_CavsFan
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If Ferry picked Blair, then Hickson wouldn't have gotten much playing time since Blair was more NBA-ready than Hickson at the start of this year. Jerebko wouldn't have gotten any PT behind LeBron, and the same with Budinger. Green might end up being the same caliber player as Jerebko and Budinger, but Green was buried behind LeBron, Moon, Parker, West, etc.
Piston Observer
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OK. I had the impression he turned down the chance to join the Cavs this season.
It seems like he could've been brought in as an undrafted free agent, though.
TheNewEra
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He would of got drafted, raptors were mad at us after draft for taking eyenga in 1st round.
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Anything to make Toronto upset.
Coming into this season, some Raptors fans tried to talk smack about being a 40 win playoff team. From the start, it was easy to tell the Raptors wouldn't have been able to stop other teams and compete nightly.
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They didn't have the cap room and he wasn't a restricted free agent.
Mdog1
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^ Pretty much, Paxson screwed this team, he made one good move his entire tenure and that was drafting LeBron which was as big of a no brainer as there has ever been. The following season our team could have been Boozer, LeBron and Jefferson and that makes me very unhappy that instead we had Luke.
Adam
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I still think it will be interesting to compare ou situation with miamis, they followed the opposite strategy and said to wade to make a committment before the did any deals.
Ferry is doing the best within the perameters he has, he had to try and get players who fit on the right contracts and hes done a great job. Even if lebron leaves i have confidence in ferry's ability to build a team over the next few years, following an okc 'scorched earth' strategy.
Ferry is doing the best within the perameters he has, he had to try and get players who fit on the right contracts and hes done a great job. Even if lebron leaves i have confidence in ferry's ability to build a team over the next few years, following an okc 'scorched earth' strategy.
Kyrieville
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The Andre Miller dump was necessary to land LeBron. The current sorry state of the Cavs started when they let Boozer slip away. That lead to a cascade of events that screwed this franchise royally. The one benefit of the Boozer trade was the fact that Paxson went out and got Varejao from Orlando.
Then Wagner's personal issues and health issues ruined him... he could have been a player in this league, he just ran into a string of bad luck.
We traded a LOTTERY PICK for JIRI WELSH, who Boston traded to Phoenix and eventually got RONDO for. That Jiri Welsh trade ultimately got us eliminated from the playoffs this year.
Not to mention we drafted LUKE JACKSON, a 3... WE HAD LEBRON!! We DESPERATELY needed a 1... Jameer Nelson was there for the taking!! I know I was screaming for them to take him.
Then cap room came, and no quality FA wanted to come to Cleveland (Redd and Ray Allen), and Ferry didn't even try for Joe Johnson... so we had to overpay for Larry Hughes, Damon Jones, and Donyell Marshall. The star power of LeBron James isn't enough for someone to make the sacrafice of living in Cleveland.
Then we have last year's draft. Quality talent is still on the board and we draft a project, who will likely never step foot on an NBA court. Bad move after bad move after bad move, combined with a city that noone wants to live in, ultimately lead to the sorry state that is this geriatric roster.
Then Wagner's personal issues and health issues ruined him... he could have been a player in this league, he just ran into a string of bad luck.
We traded a LOTTERY PICK for JIRI WELSH, who Boston traded to Phoenix and eventually got RONDO for. That Jiri Welsh trade ultimately got us eliminated from the playoffs this year.
Not to mention we drafted LUKE JACKSON, a 3... WE HAD LEBRON!! We DESPERATELY needed a 1... Jameer Nelson was there for the taking!! I know I was screaming for them to take him.
Then cap room came, and no quality FA wanted to come to Cleveland (Redd and Ray Allen), and Ferry didn't even try for Joe Johnson... so we had to overpay for Larry Hughes, Damon Jones, and Donyell Marshall. The star power of LeBron James isn't enough for someone to make the sacrafice of living in Cleveland.
Then we have last year's draft. Quality talent is still on the board and we draft a project, who will likely never step foot on an NBA court. Bad move after bad move after bad move, combined with a city that noone wants to live in, ultimately lead to the sorry state that is this geriatric roster.
Bob_The_Cat
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I posted this over in the 2010-11 roster thread, but it's extremely relevant to this discussion.
For those out there that want to blame Ferry, do yourself a favor and look at the roster in 2005 when he took over as GM:
Jeff McInnis, Dajuan Wagner, Pavs, Z, Lucious Harris, Ira Newble, AV, Eric Snow, Lebron James, Robert Traylor, Luke Jackson, Jiri Welsch, Scott Williams, Desagana Diop, and Drew Gooden.
How that team won 42 games is beyond belief. Much of what we're facing now is a result of a hole that we were put in by Paxson. He did about 3 good things during his time as Cavs GM, draft LBJ (which was a no brainer), draft Boozer, and trade for AV. Of course the AV trade only occurred because Paxson was an idiot and let Boozer out of his contract early. I guess you could add making every bad move possible to make sure we were the worst team in the league and in position to draft LBJ.
I know hindsight is 20/20, but the two drafts following LBJ's rookie year were an absolute disaster and gave us no young players to build around him. In the '04 Draft we took Luke Jackson (Al Jefferson went 5 picks later, Nelson 10), in '05 we had no first round pick because of some 3 way trade we made in 1997 , and in '07 we had no first round pick because of the Jiri Welsch trade (brilliant). That means in '05 we missed the chance to pick a guy like Danny Granger, and in '07 we missed a chance to pick some guys like Rudy Fernandez, Aaron Brooks, Arron Afflalo, Carl Landry, Glen Davis, and Marc Gasol. The only two players that we've drafted since LeBron has been in the league that are still on the team are Daniel Gibson and J.J. Hickson.
It's kind of weird, but we actually suffered a bit in the draft not only from poor management early on, but because of the fact that LeBron developed so quickly at a young age and improved the team around him so much, we didn't get the younger players around him soon enough to set-up the potential for long term success. Look at how Portland, OKC, and Orlando have been built. All teams with young cores, and all teams built with good drafting.
Portland got Aldridge and Roy in '06, Oden (has been injured but could still work out for them) and Rudy Fernandez in '07, and Jerryd Bayless and Nicolas Batum in '08.
OKC got Durant and Jeff Green in '07, Westbrook and Serge Ibaka in '08, and Harden in '09.
Orlando got Howard and Nelson in '04, Gortat in '05, Reddick in '06, and C Lee '08(traded for Carter but played well in rookie year).
Though they might not all be studs, these guys are at least important role players. The point is these teams added young pieces to their stars early on through the draft, something which we were never able to do, and it put us in a bad spot having to trade for older players past their prime. It's not easy to attract another big star to Cleveland through free agency even though we do have LeBron, because most of those players want to be the "man" and it would never happen in Cleveland with LeBron there (see Ray Allen and Michael Redd in '06).
Also, can we please stop with the Amare trade? People act like the offer was sitting on Ferry's desk waiting for him to accept. Ferry made the Suns an offer that he was comfortable with. The Suns decided they didn't want to trade Amare or made a counter offer that Ferry didn't like, and Ferry pulled the trigger on a back-up deal that he liked and allowed him to get a player that fit our system for essentially nothing, while holding onto one of the few good young players on the team. End of story. If the Amare deal was ever a realistic possibility, I have no doubt that Ferry would have made it happen.
For those out there that want to blame Ferry, do yourself a favor and look at the roster in 2005 when he took over as GM:
Jeff McInnis, Dajuan Wagner, Pavs, Z, Lucious Harris, Ira Newble, AV, Eric Snow, Lebron James, Robert Traylor, Luke Jackson, Jiri Welsch, Scott Williams, Desagana Diop, and Drew Gooden.
How that team won 42 games is beyond belief. Much of what we're facing now is a result of a hole that we were put in by Paxson. He did about 3 good things during his time as Cavs GM, draft LBJ (which was a no brainer), draft Boozer, and trade for AV. Of course the AV trade only occurred because Paxson was an idiot and let Boozer out of his contract early. I guess you could add making every bad move possible to make sure we were the worst team in the league and in position to draft LBJ.
I know hindsight is 20/20, but the two drafts following LBJ's rookie year were an absolute disaster and gave us no young players to build around him. In the '04 Draft we took Luke Jackson (Al Jefferson went 5 picks later, Nelson 10), in '05 we had no first round pick because of some 3 way trade we made in 1997 , and in '07 we had no first round pick because of the Jiri Welsch trade (brilliant). That means in '05 we missed the chance to pick a guy like Danny Granger, and in '07 we missed a chance to pick some guys like Rudy Fernandez, Aaron Brooks, Arron Afflalo, Carl Landry, Glen Davis, and Marc Gasol. The only two players that we've drafted since LeBron has been in the league that are still on the team are Daniel Gibson and J.J. Hickson.
It's kind of weird, but we actually suffered a bit in the draft not only from poor management early on, but because of the fact that LeBron developed so quickly at a young age and improved the team around him so much, we didn't get the younger players around him soon enough to set-up the potential for long term success. Look at how Portland, OKC, and Orlando have been built. All teams with young cores, and all teams built with good drafting.
Portland got Aldridge and Roy in '06, Oden (has been injured but could still work out for them) and Rudy Fernandez in '07, and Jerryd Bayless and Nicolas Batum in '08.
OKC got Durant and Jeff Green in '07, Westbrook and Serge Ibaka in '08, and Harden in '09.
Orlando got Howard and Nelson in '04, Gortat in '05, Reddick in '06, and C Lee '08(traded for Carter but played well in rookie year).
Though they might not all be studs, these guys are at least important role players. The point is these teams added young pieces to their stars early on through the draft, something which we were never able to do, and it put us in a bad spot having to trade for older players past their prime. It's not easy to attract another big star to Cleveland through free agency even though we do have LeBron, because most of those players want to be the "man" and it would never happen in Cleveland with LeBron there (see Ray Allen and Michael Redd in '06).
Also, can we please stop with the Amare trade? People act like the offer was sitting on Ferry's desk waiting for him to accept. Ferry made the Suns an offer that he was comfortable with. The Suns decided they didn't want to trade Amare or made a counter offer that Ferry didn't like, and Ferry pulled the trigger on a back-up deal that he liked and allowed him to get a player that fit our system for essentially nothing, while holding onto one of the few good young players on the team. End of story. If the Amare deal was ever a realistic possibility, I have no doubt that Ferry would have made it happen.