• Changing RCF's index page, please click on "Forums" to access the forums.

Windhorst on Cavs Trade Talk (2/7)

Do Not Sell My Personal Information

wuck

Hustling on the inside
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Apr 8, 2007
Messages
21,068
Reaction score
57,752
Points
148
Brian Windhorst just published his take on the trade scene. Since he covers a lot of players, I thought it deserved its own thread. If a MOD feels otherwise, thanks in advance for moving this.

Most of this has been covered in more detail by RCFers, but I have a question.

Is he right about the trade exception? Must be a typo. EDIT: Answered below: $1.9M

NBA Insider: Cavaliers have trade pieces, but is there a deal that really fits?
by Brian Windhorst/Plain Dealer Reporter
Saturday February 07, 2009, 11:20 PM

CLEVELAND -- The trade season is now in full swing. With the deadline less than two weeks away, the rumors are exploding and the Cavaliers, armed with some valuable trade assets, are right in the middle of things.

Here's a look at what the Cavs have to offer and a handicapping of their chances at the big names on the market.

THE ASSETS

• Wally Szczerbiak's expiring contract. Worth $13 million, his is a classic salary-cap clearer at this point in these troubled economic times. Teams underachieving and getting killed at the box office may look to try and reduce future salary commitments. The Cavs want to keep Szczerbiak, so if a trade with him is a pure salary dump, he could take a buyout and return to the Cavs after 30 days.

• Eric Snow's $7.1 million expiring contract. The Cavs aren't likely to use this, they can save $11 million in real dollars by letting insurance and NBA disability take over. However, if it is required to trade for a superstar, they would consider it.

• Anderson Varejao's $5.78 million expiring contract. Yes, he has an opt-out after this season but so do the Cavs, which makes his deal expiring. The Cavs would only trade him if they got a center with a long-term future here in return.

• Sasha Pavlovic's "virtual" expiring contract. Pavlovic is under contract for next season for $4.9 million. But just $1 million is guaranteed, so it acts like an expiring contract. The Cavs don't want to trade him, either, but he's certainly an asset because of this fact.

• J.J. Hickson is exactly what teams are looking for when they move highly-paid stars. A young, athletic big man with a cheap contract and huge upside. The Cavs are thrilled with his potential, but pairing him with an expiring contract could create an attractive package.

• 2009 first-round draft pick. The early returns are that this upcoming draft is not very deep and the Cavs will likely be picking at the very end of the first round. This diminishes this pick's value and it could be used to sweeten a package.

$1.6 million trade exception. The Cavs have it left over from sending Cedric Simmons to the Bulls last year. It cannot be combined with other assets in a trade, but can be used on its own to take back a player making as much as $41.9 million (EDIT: should read $1.9 million) for nothing. Often large trades can actually be made up of a number of smaller deals put together, and this is where an exception can come into play.

THE POTENTIAL TARGETS

• Marcus Camby, Clippers

Why the Cavs can get him: Because the Clippers are terrible and owner Donald Sterling is probably furious at the payroll he's paying for one of the worst teams in the league. A good citizen and teammate and defender, he fits the Cavs' profile perfectly.

Why they can't: Coach and general manager Mike Dunleavy has said he wants to keep Camby until other stars Chris Kaman and Zach Randolph are healthy to get a better grasp on what he has.

• Amare Stoudemire and Shaquille O'Neal, Suns

Why the Cavs can: In turmoil and teetering financially, the Suns have made nearly their entire roster available. These two don't fit together and one surely seems like he's moving. LeBron James and Shaq are close friends.

Why they can't: Last year, bringing O'Neal in ruined the Suns' chemistry and the Cavs are dearly guarding theirs. For Stoudemire, the Suns want some young stars as part of the package and the Cavs may not be able to deliver that. It also seems like Stoudemire has struggled fitting in when he's not the main star, which he wouldn't be here.

• Vince Carter, Nets

Why the Cavs can: Carter's contract is huge and runs past 2010, when the Nets want to clear cap space. Headed nowhere this season and with another developing star in Devin Harris, the Nets may be willing to budge. Also Carter has played well in a team role this season.

Why they can't: At 32, he's on the downside of his career and it would mess up their cap plans in 2010. He may not be the player they want to do it for.

• Brad Miller, Kings

Why the Cavs can: Miller is a good rebounder and a shooter who can stretch the floor, plus his contract runs just one more season.

Why they can't: Miller is out of shape and having a poor season and it's not clear how he'd fit in.

• Mike Miller, Timberwolves

Why the Cavs can: They always can use shooters and Miller's contract expires after next season. They have liked him for several years.

Why they can't: Bothered by injuries, he's not played as well this season as last and the Timberwolves are winning now and may not want to mess with their core.


http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2009/02/nba_insider_cavaliers_have_tra.html
 
good find even though nothing new....camby and vc i like...i wander why no interest in kaman??
 
I think he meant 1.6 wuck lol. Don't know where that 41.9 came from, he must of been thinking about something....
 
I think he meant 1.6 wuck lol. Don't know where that 41.9 came from, he must of been thinking about something....

Maybe he meant 1.9M? (1.6 plus some percentage of difference between the incoming and outgoing salaries?)

I have no idea but no player makes close to $41M, so it's got to be some kind of typo.
 
He meant 1.9. The 4 is the $ key as well when you have shift held down. He just hit it twice.

I feel like we have a little CSI or Monk going on here. Thanks a lot. Edited original post.

Windhorst or a PD copyeditor has now changed the original piece to "making as much as $2 million for nothing."
 
Is Kaman gonna be back before the TD? I know Randolph is back already, he played in 4games since coming back. He put up 35/10/3 and 25/9/3 in his last 2 games back. So it didn't take him long to get back into a groove. And get this, Zach was 7 of 8 from the 3 point line combined between those 2 games.

Edit: The faster Kaman comes back, the better chance we might have at Camby.
 
Last edited:
Finally, an article I feel inspired to talk about. Given that I don't know what goes on in the minds of the General Managers, it helps that Brian keeps everything in perspective. I have some thoughts that I need to let out:

You could say that none of these players would be the ultimate answer.
Whether or not they result in a championship, they all have their faults. We'll just have to hope that whatever option here works best will give us as many rings as possilble. On the other hand, I bet Danny still throws another in left field. We'll have to hear about that one in the next week, as rumors always start a little before any actual deadline. But if not, I'm sure one of these options might work. I just don't care... as long as the Cavs are winning it all, I just don't care.

I know that Marcus is a pretty good defender, yet an aged warrior like Ben, still has some decent offense.
I don't mind having him as additional big man depth, yet you wonder who's going to have to take the seat? Z is a given starter because he's still all-star quality. But do you give Ben the role at power forward? Ben might be better off starting the game, because that way he probably won't start having complaints. One would think there's no reason for that to happen, but keep in mind that Ben was always a starter... adjusting is one thing that doesn't always play off in the best way.

One would think that with Camby playing off the bench several years in New York and one in Denver, he might be able to be the solid 6th man. Team him with Andy, and you're set with a four big-man rotation. I guess it all relies on having Kaman and Randolph back. Kaman isn't going to be back before the deadline. That may kill off the deal, assuming the Clippers don't screw it up again (c'mon Clips... screw it up :chuckles:). But I like Camby.

Amare and Shaq are very extreme pieces to trade for. That's going to be a deal breaker...
I find it hard to believe that Amare would work here.
He's been complaining about not being the top alpha dog, and that's not going to happen here. He does have some personality issues that I find hard to believe that make it hard for him not to ruin chemistry. He's not Larry Hughes, but the comparison isn't a bad one either. Chemistry will still play a part in the decision-making of Danny Ferry and our true hopes of winning it all. I just don't see Danny biting.

Shaq on the other hand is a different story, but not much better.

  1. He's always been in the Sunny South. Why would he even bother coming to a place like Cleveland? Forget LeBron... he'd never shut up about the cold weather...
  2. Also, just imagine what would happen if he interacted with these personalities? Z, Andy, and Sasha are foreign players, will Shaq respect their boundaries and not offend them? I remember when a certain player on our team in 2005 or 2006 (Ira? Damon?), overheard a conversation that Sasha was having on the phone and asked the god-damn stupid question if it was a certain language that wasn't even close. These type of guys do ask stupid questions and Shaq might not do that, but still disturb the peace...
  3. He's a very large personality, as we all know... Still, if he gets it right here, Shaq, even at his ripe old age of 36+ years, has true low post dominance. LeBron can feed him and have as much chemistry with him as he does with Z. Shaq will give us a true low post presence in every game, because Shaq still works down low, 100% of the time. And he passes out well for our three point shooters (that's why Damon Jones operated so well in 2005).
  4. But it still won't work with Z and Shaq in there at the same time, obviously. Does Shaq work off the bench? Probably not, being a starter since the beginning, it's too big of an ego to let go of. I'd take my chances with Z off the bench, because he's done it before (2002) and he'll be just fine with it, trust me. Or switch games in the regular season (because Phoenix has given Shaq off days on back-to-backs)... Z one day, Shaq another. They'll play at a gigantic level come playoff time, when you switch one for another rotation-wise...
  5. But he's still Shaq... He can still ruin our chemistry like he did with the Suns (even though we're a half court team, he has a strong personality while our team is very happy with not so strong personalities... with exception to LeBron, but he doesn't use his personality here like he did at All-Star games or Olympic events... LeBron might tell Shaq to tone it down, he revolts... I'm just throwing around every thought now, but these are all important, if you guys are still paying attention...).

I have my thoughts on Vince Carter.

  • He helps us.
  • He gives us a facilitator.
  • He drives like Mo and LeBron, finishes like Mo and LeBron, and can shoot it pretty well despite his superior strengths, like dunking.
  • He can mix it up with them as much as Boobie and Delonte could. That makes us better.
  • I would hope we could get him pretty cheap, but asking for a guy like J.J. won't happen.
  • Delonte may not be used either, since he's pretty valuable. We'll just have to see if Rod bites. We have a good chance with our assets. Also, it's going to work a lot better than it did for Phoenix (Shaq) and Vince to New Jersey. That's because we already have a strong team established with a strong superstar with the perfect philosophy to win playoff games. This could have the impact that it did with Rasheed to Detroit.

Brad Miller is an oddity.
Does he really work well? He's a depth player... But an off year? I don't even know if I want to find out. Still, if he could get it right, he might be a piece to the championship puzzle?

Mike Miller is a better Wally, I guess.
But his injury probably tells me we aren't buying at this time. If it gets better in a week and a half, who knows?

This was a nice piece, as there's a real (and decent) article to share these tidbits with.

I look forward to sharing these fun speculations with you, guys! And Maximus... Wine and Gold... please do keep us in the loop, if you so desire. We, the new guys guys after 2008 trade deadline day, look forward to seeing interesting things. But this is up to you both... I'm not gonna press anything... I respect you guys too much (and the rest of the RCF staff, wherever you may be...).
 
Is Kaman gonna be back before the TD? I know Randolph is back already, he played in 4games since coming back. He put up 35/10/3 and 25/9/3 in his last 2 games back. So it didn't take him long to get back into a groove. And get this, Zach was 7 of 8 from the 3 point line combined between those 2 games.

Edit: The faster Kaman comes back, the better chance we might have at Camby.

i read on the clippers board(real gm) that he should be back after the AS break
 
So Snow might be used if we need him to get a superstar? How bigs his expiring again?

Would be pretty hard for Phoenix or even Toronto to say
no to Wally, Snow, JJ and a pick for Bosh or Amare.

Camby would be great and my first option if we can't get one of the two mentioned above. But it doesn't sound like he's available.

Hell no to either of the Millers.

Richard Jefferson would be great too, and unless I'm wrong, he seems like maybe the most likely since he's available for probably just Wally.

One guy that people used to dream about being available might just be. Caron Butler is apparently on the table. Not sure what I'd give up for him. Probably Wally, Sasha and a 1st? If they took that we'd be unstoppable.
 
Richard Jefferson would be great too, and unless I'm wrong, he seems like maybe the most likely since he's available for probably just Wally.
I agree completely!I've read multiple things which basically say that the Bucks would love an expiring for Jefferson.
 
Notice how he does not mention Bosh at all.

My thinking is that Camby is the best trade available, of those listed, with VC being the second best. Neither of these would upset me. Beyond that it gets less and less interesting, unless there is a surprise deal out there. The Cavs have been pretty good at keeping trades quiet. Last year we had very little warning that Wally, Wallace and West were coming.
 

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Video

Episode 3-14: "Time for Playoff Vengeance on Mickey"

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Spotify

Episode 3:14: " Time for Playoff Vengeance on Mickey."
Top