Windhorst on Cavs Trade Talk (2/7)

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

wow so he already maks $9.5mil+an extra 7.5mil if he gets traded=$16mil

dam,that is ****ed up

Bossman, what are you smoking today? 9.5 with a 15% raise would be 10.925. 7.5 million extra would be like a 68% raise. Such a trade kicker does not exist.

 

[Radar]

Bossman, what are you smoking today? 9.5 with a 15% raise would be 10.925. 7.5 million extra would be like a 68% raise. Such a trade kicker does not exist.

o my bad....i must have missread what BW said,when he mention the 7.5

thanks though,as you can see im not good when you deal with that stuff


i would still like to get kaman,an estimated $11mil is worth it IMO

 

[Megamansilly]

I'd trade Andy if we could get kaman....

 

[Zone]

I know Windy says that Snow is unlikely to be traded unless it's for a superstar, but could Snow, Wright and a 1st = Camby? The salaries match up.

I also wanted to add something about Camby and I think there's been some confusion about his salary #'s. I was looking around and I think the $10 million # that most people associate with him is his "trade value" when trying to match salaries for trades. He's listed at $10 million because he had a trade kicker in his original contract. But for salary/luxury cap purposes, his salary is $8 million for this season and $7.65 million next season.

I say this because I see a lot of Wally/1st for Camby ideas and I don't think there's any way that Sterling and the Clips would take on an additional $5+ million in salary (which is what a Wally deal would produce for them) this year just to get a 1st and Camby's deal off the books. But Snow, Wright, 1st keeps their books equal this year and saves them approximately $7.65 million next year, where a Wally deal would really only be saving them about $2 million in the long run.

 

[The George]

interesting stuff by Windy as usual but also stuff that if you read RCF daily you would have known by now

not knocking Windy of course because we have some top notch guys and I am just giving credit to this site thats all...

My point is Zack Randolph is balling for LA and the young fella from Texas AM the rookie has been looking good as well, the Jordan kid, I honestly think that Dunleavy will bust...Stearling is paying wayyyy too much for that teamand he knows it and they actually do have a lot of capable big men once Kaman comes back after the All Star break

So wally for Camby and Filler and I am going to like it...a goo solid defense improving deal that doesnt threaten 2010 plans but improves them

I would really love to hear someone smarter than me (max or W&G) (not you PIP) talk about the possibility of a VC deal and what that would mean potentially for this team....

 

[Cavatt]

I know Windy says that Snow is unlikely to be traded unless it's for a superstar, but could Snow, Wright and a 1st = Camby? The salaries match up.

I also wanted to add something about Camby and I think there's been some confusion about his salary #'s. I was looking around and I think the $10 million # that most people associate with him is his "trade value" when trying to match salaries for trades. He's listed at $10 million because he had a trade kicker in his original contract. But for salary/luxury cap purposes, his salary is $8 million for this season and $7.65 million next season.

I say this because I see a lot of Wally/1st for Camby ideas and I don't think there's any way that Sterling and the Clips would take on an additional $5+ million in salary (which is what a Wally deal would produce for them) this year just to get a 1st and Camby's deal off the books. But Snow, Wright, 1st keeps their books equal this year and saves them approximately $7.65 million next year, where a Wally deal would really only be saving them about $2 million in the long run.

If they buy him out for very little money it would save them money right? Say they end up paying him 6 million or something and we resign him for 4 or less. That would be acceptable to Wally I think and they would go for it. If you get a contract like his for cap relief and he is willing to be bought out for millions less, I think you do it.

 

[Zone]

If they buy him out for very little money it would save them money right? Say they end up paying him 6 million or something and we resign him for 4 or less. That would be acceptable to Wally I think and they would go for it. If you get a contract like his for cap relief and he is willing to be bought out for millions less, I think you do it.

So you're saying (in your example) Wally is going to forfeit $2 million? It's possible (ie McDyess) but I don't know how likely it is.

You also have to take into account that using Snow instead of Wally could provide for the most continuity. Trading for a player that's going to play a solid amount of minutes is already a transition. Then you wait 30 days and bring in another guy that's going to get minutes and it could provide some disruption.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I know Windy says that Snow is unlikely to be traded unless it's for a superstar, but could Snow, Wright and a 1st = Camby? The salaries match up.

I also wanted to add something about Camby and I think there's been some confusion about his salary #'s. I was looking around and I think the $10 million # that most people associate with him is his "trade value" when trying to match salaries for trades. He's listed at $10 million because he had a trade kicker in his original contract. But for salary/luxury cap purposes, his salary is $8 million for this season and $7.65 million next season.

I say this because I see a lot of Wally/1st for Camby ideas and I don't think there's any way that Sterling and the Clips would take on an additional $5+ million in salary (which is what a Wally deal would produce for them) this year just to get a 1st and Camby's deal off the books. But Snow, Wright, 1st keeps their books equal this year and saves them approximately $7.65 million next year, where a Wally deal would really only be saving them about $2 million in the long run.

Actually, Camby's salary is 10,000,000. The trade kicker kicked in when he was traded from Denver to the Clippers. If he gets traded again, it will not go up another 15%.

However, I completely agree that Snow might be a better idea than Wally for the Clippers. With a Snow trade, they'd save about 17 million over the next two years. That makes more sense than a Wally trade where they'd only save 6 million.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

interesting stuff by Windy as usual but also stuff that if you read RCF daily you would have known by now

not knocking Windy of course because we have some top notch guys and I am just giving credit to this site thats all...

My point is Zack Randolph is balling for LA and the young fella from Texas AM the rookie has been looking good as well, the Jordan kid, I honestly think that Dunleavy will bust...Stearling is paying wayyyy too much for that teamand he knows it and they actually do have a lot of capable big men once Kaman comes back after the All Star break

So wally for Camby and Filler and I am going to like it...a goo solid defense improving deal that doesnt threaten 2010 plans but improves them

I would really love to hear someone smarter than me (max or W&G) (not you PIP) talk about the possibility of a VC deal and what that would mean potentially for this team....

A Vince Carter deal would likely revolve around Wally and at least a first. New Jersey, given Rod Thorn's past deals, will drive a VERY hard bargain, probably opening the discussions at Wally, JJ, and 2 firsts. This might make it difficult to get a deal done, regardless of Vince's impact on this team, because we will not pay that much for him. Wally, a first, and a minor asset (Sasha, Darnell, Sasha Kaun, or a 2nd round pick) would be the max we'd be willing to pay.

As for Vince's fit on this team, he'd start at SG, which would make our guards off the bench Delonte and Boobie. Personally, I don't think you'll find many backcourts that are this good off the bench. If we get to keep Sasha, we'd have our long athletic defensive 2/3 and we'd be set in the backcourt for the next couple of seasons. Vince has a terrific outside shot, and still has the ability to get to the basket, whether it's by beating his man off the dribble, or making a backdoor cut for Devin Harris (or in this case, Mo or LeBron) to hit him for an easy bucket. Vince's defense isn't that bad either.

Unfortunately, there are some concerns with Vince. The first is his age and contract. He's 32 years old and this is his eleventh year in the league. You'd have to assume that his age will soon stop him from being an elite scorer in this league. His contract is guaranteed through 2010-2011, with 2011-2012 as an unguaranteed year. His salary will stop us from having any room under the salary cap in the 2010 offseason (assuming LBJ stays), and keep us to our familiar MLE and BAE. Also, Vince's attitude is something that is a minor issue, according to Toronto fans. However, it seems that as long as the team is winning, Vince's attitude doesn't prove to be an issue.

So, with Vince, he does sure up your backcourt for this year and the next. However, he ruins any 2010 cap space plans. Personally, I would stay away from him because I feel that our front court is more of an issue. However, if you feel that a shooting guard is more important at this time, and you care about winning over the next two years as opposed to getting young talent that can help you win past 2010, VC is arguably the best option out there.

 

[Megamansilly]

A Vince Carter deal would likely revolve around Wally and at least a first. New Jersey, given Rod Thorn's past deals, will drive a VERY hard bargain, probably opening the discussions at Wally, JJ, and 2 firsts. This might make it difficult to get a deal done, regardless of Vince's impact on this team, because we will not pay that much for him. Wally, a first, and a minor asset (Sasha, Darnell, Sasha Kaun, or a 2nd round pick) would be the max we'd be willing to pay.

As for Vince's fit on this team, he'd start at SG, which would make our guards off the bench Delonte and Boobie. Personally, I don't think you'll find many backcourts that are this good off the bench. If we get to keep Sasha, we'd have our long athletic defensive 2/3 and we'd be set in the backcourt for the next couple of seasons. Vince has a terrific outside shot, and still has the ability to get to the basket, whether it's by beating his man off the dribble, or making a backdoor cut for Devin Harris (or in this case, Mo or LeBron) to hit him for an easy bucket. Vince's defense isn't that bad either.

Unfortunately, there are some concerns with Vince. The first is his age and contract. He's 32 years old and this is his eleventh year in the league. You'd have to assume that his age will soon stop him from being an elite scorer in this league. His contract is guaranteed through 2010-2011, with 2011-2012 as an unguaranteed year. His salary will stop us from having any room under the salary cap in the 2010 offseason (assuming LBJ stays), and keep us to our familiar MLE and BAE. Also, Vince's attitude is something that is a minor issue, according to Toronto fans. However, it seems that as long as the team is winning, Vince's attitude doesn't prove to be an issue.

So, with Vince, he does sure up your backcourt for this year and the next. However, he ruins any 2010 cap space plans. Personally, I would stay away from him because I feel that our front court is more of an issue. However, if you feel that a shooting guard is more important at this time, and you care about winning over the next two years as opposed to getting young talent that can help you win past 2010, VC is arguably the best option out there.

Thats 100% true and we could resign andy this offseson and make a move at bosh next deadline with Gibson, Ben, Jackson and picks

PG Mo, West
SG Carter, West
SF James, Pav
PF Bosh, Hickson
C Z, Andy

 

[The George]

Is VC worth the Risk????

Is improving our frontcourt a more pressing issue? And if we do, like by adding a Camby, is AV going to Bolt in the Summer?

these are my questions for Danny Ferry? good luck to that guy...whew

 

[Megamansilly]

Is VC worth the Risk????

Is improving our frontcourt a more pressing issue? And if we do, like by adding a Camby, is AV going to Bolt in the Summer?

these are my questions for Danny Ferry? good luck to that guy...whew

If we get Camby why would we need AV? We would have Z, Ben, Hickson, Camby next year and in 2010 more than likely Z, Bosh, Hickson and 2009 Draft pick...

 

[Hydroponic3385]

I don't know if you can say we'd "more than likely" have Bosh in 2010.

 

[Megamansilly]

I don't know if you can say we'd "more than likely" have Bosh in 2010.

well than you cant say LBJ is "more than likely going to still be with the cavs past 2010" than... if LBJ is here in 2010 and we have Cap Bosh will be here if he isnt already......

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Thats 100% true and we could resign andy this offseson and make a move at bosh next deadline with Gibson, Ben, Jackson and picks

PG Mo, West
SG Carter, West
SF James, Pav
PF Bosh, Hickson
C Z, Andy

Probably not. We won't have the picks to trade because we would have traded them for VC.