Wizards looking to trade?

[Cavatt]

I do wonder if Butler is the right fit. He plays the 3 most often, how well does he play the 2? He would have to if he wanted minutes.

I really think our main need is a pf, and that points to Jamison to me. Shaq inflates a good pf numbers, so Jamison would do even better and find himself wide open all the time. Maybe Butler would experience the same thing, but we need a guy who can really nail the 3 on the wing.

 

[The Oi]

I would ABSOLUTELY trade JJ for Butler. I'm almost offended that anyone wouldn't and just annoyed by the fact that anyone thinks he wouldn't be capable of being a second option on the Cavs. He's primarily a scorer and IMO that's exactly what the Cavs need.

Who cares what kind of season he's having right now with a terrible team in a system that does not work for the type of players they have? He's playing on a team with one of the worst ball-hogs in the league in Arenas, and Jamison who to no fault of his own needs to have the ball in his hands a lot to be an effective player.

Caron's history suggests he's more of a 19-21ppg scorer that shoots between 45%-47% from the field and does so with about 14-16 shots per game (which is admittedly more than what he'd get with the Cavs). The only inconsistent part of his game is his 3pt% and the Cavs simply do not need another three point shooter.

It's almost absurd to say he's having all that bad of a season because he's still scoring 17 and putting up about 7 rebs. I understand he's not as efficient as he has been, but his past suggests he's a much better player than he appears to be this year. I'd take his work any day of the week.

His consistency prior to this year was fantastic. He's a tough guy who is capable of playing good defense. He's only 29 and in his prime, and he's a far better player than JJ Hickson is capable of becoming.

 

[Silky Smooth]

As much as i would like Butler i think this team needs a PF way more than a SG. AP has been playing pretty solid so far. When he is open he knocks down a shot and he plays good defense. A PF would make our offense more dynamic. You would have the outside threats in Mo, Boobie, Delonte, and Lebron. Then you would have the defensive presence in Shaq and with a PF like Jamison (or David West) we would finally have a post presence that can get us points and stretch the floor and give more room for Shaq and Lebron to do their thing. A PF like Jamison could be that final piece we need to really contend against the better teams.

 

[The George]

while im not really sold on butler to be honest.... a guy like Butler would allow us (or maybe I should say force Mike Brown) to play LeBron at the 4 more which would be good for the team

not sure if Caron is the guy or not but I like that idea of Bronnie at the 4 with a capable guy at the 3 not to mention they could still play together at the 2 and 3 spots

 

[The Oi]

As much as i would like Butler i think this team needs a PF way more than a SG.

I do agree with that statement 100% actually. This has more to do with the future than this current season, because after this year this team is down to Darnell Jackson, JJ Hickson and Anderson Varejao as it's front court.

That said, if they can't get a PF who is capable of scoring some points, then Caron Butler wouldn't disappoint me in the least. I see zero chance of the Wiz trading with the Cavs though, three-way deal or not.

 

[Silky Smooth]

I do agree with that statement 100% actually. This has more to do with the future than this current season, because after this year this team is down to Darnell Jackson, JJ Hickson and Anderson Varejao as it's front court.

That said, if they can't get a PF who is capable of scoring some points, then Caron Butler wouldn't disappoint me in the least. I see zero chance of the Wiz trading with the Cavs though, three-way deal or not.

Id kind of be shocked too if Washington trades with us but we do have another option with David West in N.O. He's not a bad option either.

 

[The Oi]

Id kind of be shocked too if Washington trades with us but we do have another option with David West in N.O. He's not a bad option either.

Agreed on West.

Oddly enough, West and Caron are having very similar seasons statistically albeit playing different positions entirely. Their scoring and rebounding numbers are very similar, and both are having down seasons scoring-wise. With West it has more to do with taking fewer shots than missing more. West and Caron are also the same age, though the positions they play would suggest Caron should have a longer prime than West will.

I know that some other people completely disagree with me on the 15ppg scorer thing, and that's all well and good. I've put the information out there showing that a team needs either a big three or two HOF-quality players and people can disagree all they want, but almost the entire history of the league is working against those people. There are no HOF options out there for the Cavs to get but West would give them a member of a Big Three. West is more than capable of scoring 15 any given night, is currently scoring over 16 and has scored 20ppg in the past as well. I would expect him to score more like 14-15ppg for the Cavs based on the style of game they play and their lack of a player that passes as much as CP3 does. Still, he'd offer the Cavs another scoring option in addition to Mo and LeBron and I think that's what they need.

Personally, I'd rather have Butler than West but I think either piece would put the Cavs over the top.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Maybe I'm the only one who's watched Butler and the Wizards a lot this year, but I don't understand the fascination with Butler. He's a sucky black-hole this year.

 

[The Oi]

Maybe I'm the only one who's watched Butler and the Wizards a lot this year, but I don't understand the fascination with Butler. He's a sucky black-hole this year.

He can be a black hole at times, but so can LeBron and so can Kobe. To that point, so can Jamison and Arenas. I just don't think that's a good team for a guy like Butler and I've watched him play good team ball in the past.

My fascination with him is his ability to score. I do respect what you're saying about his tendency to hog the ball at times, but I think it's something you have to live with at times with guys who have a score-first mentality.

Now, if you don't think Butler would be WILLING to be a second-option with the Cavs and play within their system, that's another story. It's also an issue if Mo Williams is unwilling to give up the ball as much as he'd hvae to with a guy like Butler. In that case, the Cavs wouldn't want to mess around with him at all.

I don't think the Cavs should risk screwing up team chemistry. They just need a scorer.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

He can be a black hole at times, but so can LeBron and so can Kobe. To that point, so can Jamison and Arenas. I just don't think that's a good team for a guy like Butler and I've watched him play good team ball in the past.

My fascination with him is his ability to score. I do respect what you're saying about his tendency to hog the ball at times, but I think it's something you have to live with at times with guys who have a score-first mentality.

Now, if you don't think Butler would be WILLING to be a second-option with the Cavs and play within their system, that's another story. It's also an issue if Mo Williams is unwilling to give up the ball as much as he'd hvae to with a guy like Butler. In that case, the Cavs wouldn't want to mess around with him at all.

I don't think the Cavs should risk screwing up team chemistry. They just need a scorer.

I know he has scoring ability, but I'm extremely concerned about his plummeting percentages and his plummeting assist rate, which have both coincided with a lower USG rate. On the Cavs, his USG rate would continue to be low, so can he be efficient without volume? I don't know, judging from this year...no. Maybe judging from the past there's a chance. I just don't know.

But if we get mad at LeBron for taking bad shots...Caron would take our hate to another level. He's a non-existent force in the clutch and his percentages on closer shots has plummeted 15%.

I have a sneaking suspicion he's playing through an injury. He doesn't look like the same player on the court than in years past. If you give me last years Caron Butler, I'd drive Hickson there myself. But I'd have a tough time giving up an expiring contract for this years Caron Butler...let alone Hickson.

 

[rabman_gold]

I guess it's ok to say that getting Butler would've been similar to getting S-Jax. Both haven't necessarily playing shooting guard before the (possible) trades. Both are huge. Both can create. It would be something that Ferry could attempt to trade West for. Use Wally for money savings.

Then there's Antawn. He makes us better at the forward spots. A stretch four. And still has game left. Could be a difference maker for a championship.

Not sure if the Wizards would do it, because they really want to suffer through a few more weeks to see if Miller makes a difference (which I find absolutely idiotic).

Grunfeld didn't return a call seeking comment, but a source with knowledge of the team's inner workings said the Wizards have told inquirers that they want to see whether things turn around when Miller returns late this month or in early January, giving Washington a healthy roster for the first time this season.

The Wizards are a difficult team because you just don't know what the hell they're gonna do. They're in the same category as Phoenix, Charlotte, and Memphis... We either can make a deal with them, or we don't. We'll probably have a clear answer in February.

 

[NarlCavs]

I've always been a fan of Butler's game but his drop off this season has to be a cause for concern. His shooting % is the biggest concern. With the Cavs he'll have to be a spot up shooter who can hit those shots consistently. Who knows if it's a slump or the start of a drop off as a player.

Jamison's contract and age have always been a concern for me but he's the Wizards player who makes more sense for the Cavs and what they need. He's still having very good production and there has been a drop off in his game. PF is the bigger need too. You're also talking about a bigger contract that runs a year longer meaning the Wiz might want to dump that more.

 

[DG's wallet]

What makes me lean toward Jamison is that even on an off shooting night he gives you almost 10 boards a game. When his shooting is on he is PF that forces the defense to spread the floor which gives us huge mismatches with Lebron and Shaq. I have to say i like them both (butler and Jamison) but i just feel that on an off shooting night Jamison offers more to the team than butler does.

 

[Lyuokdea]

Well...I assume if the wizards are looking to blow it up, they'll really have to blow it up - So both Jamison and Butler will be gone. Doing otherwise would put you in a quasi-rebuilding mode, with overpriced "win now" pieces still sitting around.

So if they can both be had. And we agree that you could probably get Jamison for Z's expiring (which most people seem to think). And we agree that you could probably get Butler for Hickson+West+Wally+Pick? (which most people seem to think giving the SJax trade).

Then you could probably do both. (Even saving West, since you don't need to have equal money on both trades) Hickson+Z+Wally (S&T at ~5.5 million) for Jamison and Butler works. (You can save a little money on the Cavs (and Wizards) side by sending Jackson/Carl/Williams before Jan 15, and they can be instantly cut).

You could always throw in Moon/Parker/West, but I don't know why Washington would really want any of the above. They'd probably rather have a first round pick, or Eyenga, or something similar.

And the Cavs would have a team that's really really deep going into the playoffs.

~Lyuokdea

 

[imahustla]

Here we go again...this is a disease that sweeps the fanbase of every team in every league, and it's sweeping Cavs fans again: OVERVALUING OUR OWN PLAYERS.

Cavs fans overvalue the fuck out of J.J. Hickson. Yeah, he's raw. He's got some great potential. But that's the word I hate so much: POTENTIAL. Why should we just hold on to a guy who MAY or MAY NOT be good five years from now? We forget the stakes for this club. It's win a championship right now. Guys like Caron Butler and Antawn Jamison will help us accomplish that goal far far more than J.J. Hickson. That's a fact, you can take that to the bank.

I mean, forget about making progress towards being the best team in the league...you can make an argument that teams like Denver and Atlanta, two teams that we were clearly better than last year (and proved to be since we swept ATL out of the playoffs and swept Denver in the reg season), have passed us by.

Yet, we insist on holding on to J.J. Hickson and playing this game of wait-and-see. Even when a guy like Antawn Jamison is 100X the player that J.J. is today.

Look at Orlando. They wanted a guy like Vince Carter, who is the same age as Jamison and in the same year in the league. They coughed up Courtney Lee to get him. In five years, Lee may be an All-Star. He may not. Who knows? What we do know is that Orlando wants the chip and they want it now, and they were willing to trade a blossoming young SG to get one who is top of the line RIGHT NOW.

And Orlando doesn't need to win RIGHT NOW. They know that they have Dwight Howard locked up for several seasons. Cleveland? We all want to think that there's no way LeBron would leave us, but we don't know this. We do know that there's a 0.000001% chance he walks away from a championship parade down Euclid Avenue. If we move Hickson for either Butler or Jamison, we're in a far better position to accomplish that goal.