Wizards looking to trade?

[jvpertz]

Caron Butler is far from a "bust".

41 percent shooting says Caron is a bust.

 

[Ziggie123]

Also, the Wizards have zero leverage. They are the ones with the underperforming roster that is over the luxury tax with big long contracts and have specifically a guy in Butler who isnt even playing well. Why the hell would I give them anything but cap relief if Im dealing with them?

Well said. I have made those same comments on numerous ocassions. Numerous posters on these boards continually want to overpay and are more than willing to "throw in" JJ in any deal....It will be a buyers market for teams with offering cap relief like the Cavs.

 

[The Oi]

41 percent shooting says Caron is a bust.

17,6 and 44% says you're talking out of your ass.

 

[Triumph36]

People have to realize that the Cavaliers are not in the business of mortgaging everything for one shot a ring. They want to contend for a long time and be in position to win multiple championships.

They are not giving up the only young player with considerable upside for a guy like Butler. Have people not been paying attention to how Ferry does things? Unless it is for a big time player like Bosh or Stoudemire the Cavaliers are not giving up Hickson for any 2nd tier Maurice Williams-like player especially one nearing 30 and is having a bad year.

The Cavaliers want to keep what they have and add to it which is why they were going to give the ghost of Wally Szczerbiak and the shell of what was Delonte West for Stephen Jackson. (btw, how is that Radmanovic thing working out, Warriors?) It is why they want Z back in a deal they put him in.

Also, the Wizards have zero leverage. They are the ones with the underperforming roster that is over the luxury tax with big long contracts and have specifically a guy in Butler who isnt even playing well. Why the hell would I give them anything but cap relief if Im dealing with them?

If LeBron had signed a contract this past off-season, I'd agree with you. But he didn't, so improving this team is objective #1 (and no I don't care about what LeBron has "said" to Ferry or Gilbert, it's meaningless until his name is in ink). If we refuse to give up anything past expiring contracts (which multiple teams have), I have a feeling we'll be outbid for most of the players at the top of our want-list and we'll be stuck settling for a player that won't put us over the top.

I'm not saying throwing Hickson in any deal is a good idea because that's obviously not the case. However, making him untouchable in any deal that isn't for a superstar is ridiculous. I'm not referring to just you specifically, but Hickson is terribly overrated here. Why is he only available in deals that land legitimate established superstars? He hasn't exactly accomplished much in the league, so is he only special because of his upside? Tons of players have upside, and many of them won't reach their potential. Losing out on a legitimate player that WILL improve the team NOW because of what Hickson MAY become is silly IMO.

That being said, I wouldn't advocate trading him for a player like Jamison, and probably not Butler either (so ya, the above was kinda a tangent but whatever). I believe it's somewhat difficult to comment now on Hickson's availability in non-Bosh/Amare deals because we simply don't know what kind of competition we have. He still should not be considered untouchable already though.

You are right in saying the Wiz have zero leverage. However, that's not as relevant because we're not the only team that can deal with them. We wouldn't just be negotiating with the Wiz, we'd be negotiating with the Wiz while competing with offers from other teams. Just because the Cavs refuse to offer anything past an expiring doesn't mean team X will too.

I strongly disagree with the "keep what we have and add to it" mentality, but that's for another thread. Regardless hopefully the Wiz continue to struggle and no other teams put up decent bids for Jamison so we get lucky and get him for an expiring (that will be returned anyway). Then everyone's happy

So I thought we all call the Wizards a bunch of women.......and now we want to trade for them?

Jamison seems to be the only Wiz player without some sort of ridiculous arrogance/attitude/selfishness. Basically he seems to be about the only player on that team that isn't a douchebag. Butler seems to be a bit of a bitch, but meh.

The only fear I have with trading with Washington, is that the only trade they would do would have to send Stevenson our way.

Luckily Gilbert probably wouldn't have a problem with cutting him/buying him out

 

[The Oi]

Excellent post Triumph. The whole point is that the Cavs aren't bargaining in a vacuum. Any player they offer for probably has at least two other suitors that the Cavs need to out-bid.

If that means giving up JJ for a player that improves this team now, I'm all for it.

 

[kovanovich]

The whole point is that the Cavs aren't bargaining in a vacuum. Any player they offer for probably has at least two other suitors that the Cavs need to out-bid.

Either that, or the Cavs will make their lowball offer that the other team (Washington or whoever) won't bite on and Ferry won't budge and the other team will stand pat. That's what happened last trade deadline, right? Ferry basically offered Wally's expiring in the many trade rumors that were floating around at that time.

One way or the other, we are going to find out how dire the finances of some of these other teams are. If that's the factor that proves decisive, Washington isn't among the financially distressed franchises.

I've seen reporting that Ernie Grunfeld has already fielded inquiries about Jamison. There have been no details reported, so who knows what to make of that. Windhorst has said that he wonders whether the Wizards will want to make any changes in view of the new ownership, but my understanding is that Grunfeld was ready to blow things up last year and it was only Abe Pollin who vetoed that idea. So my guess is that Grunfeld will have no qualms about pulling the trigger on a trade or two.

 

[Soda Popinski]

Either that, or the Cavs will make their lowball offer that the other team (Washington or whoever) won't bite on and Ferry won't budge and the other team will stand pat. That's what happened last trade deadline, right? Ferry basically offered Wally's expiring in the many trade rumors that were floating around at that time.
QUOTE]

That's a good point but the main difference between this year's deadline and last year's is how bad some teams are doing financially. The Pistons can not sell tickets. While the team is nowhere near as good that is a team that sold out games for years in a row. Ticket sales are hurting in a lot of places around the league. With Gilbert bringing in the Chinese investors it just allowed him to spend even more. There are not many teams that are looking to add any salary and they are going to be way more teams that are looking to dump some long term money for a bag of chips to try and save something.

 

[castigador]

I still don't get the whole JJ Hickson crap... do you want to develop players ( and not be a contender) or do you want to win now?

If the right deal comes up you trade Z ( your best asset) JJ ( tradeable) and West ( too much of a head case this season to be relied upon). And you trade them for solid pieces like David West, Antawn Jamison or anyone who can make an Impact, make shots, doesn't have butterfingers or has mental issues.

 

[Glenechocreek]

The Wiztards are down by 30 just now. It's time to shake things up.

I wonder who all is interested in Jameson. The Spurs, no doubt, but they can't counter an offer of Z and J.J. I suppose the Celtics could offer Ray Allen and Big Baby. That's about it. Our chances are probably as good as anyone's.

 

[johnnycake44022]

I'd be shocked if they trade with us...

 

[Jezzar]

I'd be shocked if they trade with us...

OK, I got to say this now.

The Wiztards front office hates no one. No front office hates another in this league. It is the front offices and GM's doing the trades not the fans. Yes, the fans and the players hate us but the front office has to do what's best for the Wiztards therefore if they are going to trade someone they have to make sure that they get the best they can.

And if we are offering that best package, they will trade with us.

 

[AMC]

The Wiztards are down by 30 just now. It's time to shake things up.

I wonder who all is interested in Jameson. The Spurs, no doubt, but they can't counter an offer of Z and J.J. I suppose the Celtics could offer Ray Allen and Big Baby. That's about it. Our chances are probably as good as anyone's.

wtf? Why?

 

[Triumph36]

OK, I got to say this now.

The Wiztards front office hates no one. No front office hates another in this league. It is the front offices and GM's doing the trades not the fans. Yes, the fans and the players hate us but the front office has to do what's best for the Wiztards therefore if they are going to trade someone they have to make sure that they get the best they can.

And if we are offering that best package, they will trade with us.

I don't understand why people are having trouble understanding this.

The front office (especially the owner) is almost always concerned with making the best business decision. For some, like the major contenders, that might include trading prospects or taking on salary for players that will help now. For others who are out of contention and have been struggling for the past couple years, like Washington, that might include blowing up the core and getting the best offer you can for what you want to trade. Given the current state of the economy along with Jamison's contract and age, a team out of contention likely won't be interested (and they shouldn't be). That's ~half the league eliminated right there. Then there are some teams that won't want to lose their cap space, so there's a couple more teams eliminated there. Then, most of the other legit contenders are eliminated because they already have a PF. FINALLY, that only leaves a couple teams left, and a couple of those teams can be eliminated as well because they don't have a big expiring, which is what Washington would probably want if they blew things up. Soooo assuming a different team doesn't make a huge mistake and overpay for him, there's a good chance the Cavs will make the best offer.

 

[kovanovich]

I don't understand why people are having trouble understanding this.

The front office (especially the owner) is almost always concerned with making the best business decision. For some, like the major contenders, that might include trading prospects or taking on salary for players that will help now. For others who are out of contention and have been struggling for the past couple years, like Washington, that might include blowing up the core and getting the best offer you can for what you want to trade. Given the current state of the economy along with Jamison's contract and age, a team out of contention likely won't be interested (and they shouldn't be). That's ~half the league eliminated right there. Then there are some teams that won't want to lose their cap space, so there's a couple more teams eliminated there. Then, most of the other legit contenders are eliminated because they already have a PF. FINALLY, that only leaves a couple teams left, and a couple of those teams can be eliminated as well because they don't have a big expiring, which is what Washington would probably want if they blew things up. Soooo assuming a different team doesn't make a huge mistake and overpay for him, there's a good chance the Cavs will make the best offer.

I have seen others in RCF assert (with no evidence) that other teams have offered expirings for Jamison. To my knowledge, it has been reported that other teams have inquired into his availability, but until Windhorst reported today that the Cavs had been in talks, I don't think any specific teams had been mentioned.

Let's look quickly at some teams:

San Antonio -- The only large expiring they have is Ginobili. Young players they could add to the package include DeJuan Blair. But they made their big play over the summer in acquiring Jefferson, and I just don't see them taking on additional longterm salary commitments.

Boston -- Since Ray Allen is expiring, he is occasionally mentioned. But I don't see why Boston would want Jamison since they already have KG and Sheed.

Denver -- They have a thin frontcourt, but personally I don't see that they need more offense, and more to the point they have no expiring contracts worth mentioning, and haven't shown any interest in taking on more salary.

Dallas -- Has a big quasi expiring in Dampier, and could offer a sweetener like Beaubois, I suppose, but do they really need Jamison? They could also offer Josh Howard, but he has one more year on his contract and wouldn't offer the same salary relief as Z.

 

[Photon]

I don't understand why people are having trouble understanding this.

The front office (especially the owner) is almost always concerned with making the best business decision. For some, like the major contenders, that might include trading prospects or taking on salary for players that will help now. For others who are out of contention and have been struggling for the past couple years, like Washington, that might include blowing up the core and getting the best offer you can for what you want to trade. Given the current state of the economy along with Jamison's contract and age, a team out of contention likely won't be interested (and they shouldn't be). That's ~half the league eliminated right there. Then there are some teams that won't want to lose their cap space, so there's a couple more teams eliminated there. Then, most of the other legit contenders are eliminated because they already have a PF. FINALLY, that only leaves a couple teams left, and a couple of those teams can be eliminated as well because they don't have a big expiring, which is what Washington would probably want if they blew things up. Soooo assuming a different team doesn't make a huge mistake and overpay for him, there's a good chance the Cavs will make the best offer.

The usual Ferry-ism. He offers good trade value, but if some other stupid GM overpays for the same player, he wont. I personally like that, a lot. In all the cases we were outbid and really good players that would be good for us were moved, the other team overpaid or so much more talent was shifted around, that it would destroy our team. I like 5% chance at championship better than 0%.