Chris
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I understand this as someone born in 1989. Just no connection to the Browns. Still a fan obviously, but yea.
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Your 2018 Cleveland Indians
- Thread starter Steve_424
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I understand this as someone born in 1989. Just no connection to the Browns. Still a fan obviously, but yea.
Urban
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13 Bullpen Loses
#1-5 of the April losses are pretty typical you see through the season.
The stretch of #7-12 are the really bad ones. Giving up a ton of runs, blowing big leads vs. bad teams, blowing/losing games late vs. the Yankees. Like Derek said earlier, a lot of these games came down to Miller not being there and Miller being there but not being right. That double header vs. Toronto and the absence of Miller really killed us in the Yankees series.
1. Apr 1, 5-4 SEA- Was 2-2 going into Bottom 7. Otero & Olson allowed 3 runs
2. Apr 4, 3-2 LAA- Kluber went 7 IP, game was tied 2-2. Bullpen went 5-1/3 scoreless until McAllister allowed a run in the bottom of the 13th. Not a game I put on the bullpen for losing
3. Apr 13, 8-4 TOR- Tied 4-4 through 9. TOR scored 1 in the top of the 7th off a double. Run was unearned because of a passed ball on Gomes that allowed a runner to advance to 2nd. 5-4 before Belisle gave up 3 in the Top of the 9th
4. Apr 18, 2-1 MIN- Indians took a 1-0 lead in the 14th. Belisle gave up the lead in the bottom of the 14th. Kipnis throwing error in 16th that advanced Rosario to 3rd which led to MIN walk off. *I never saw a highlight of this error fwiw
5. Apr 26, 5-4 SEA- Goody blew 4-4 lead in the 8th. Would’ve been Miller in there if he were healthy
6. May 1, 8-6 TEX- Top 7, Texas up 2-0. Clevinger leaves with a runner on first and 2 outs. Beliveau hits a pitcher, allows a 2 run double and a 2 run HR. Indians battle back from 6-0 deficit and 6-2 deficit in the 9th. Goody ultimately gives up 2 in the 12th.
7. May 3, 13-11 TOR- 1st game of a double header. Summary would be too long. Goody, ZacMac and Olson gave up 7 ER combined. Enough said
8. May 4, 7-6 NYY- Indians offense came back from 5-0 in the 8th and 6-5 in the 9th. Bullpen was depleted from the double header and Ogando who had just been called up was put into a situation he normally would’ve never been near. Walked 3 batters in the 8th and had to return in the 9th before giving up a leadoff double to Stanton.
9. May 6, 7-4 NYY- Indians were up 4-0 in the 8th. Allen pitched poorly
10. May 11, 10-9 KC- Indians blew 9-4 lead. Otero mostly responsible for the blown lead. Miller gave up go ahead run
11. May 15, 9-8 DET- Indians blew 8-3 lead. Miller gave up back to back doubles to tie the game and left on the go ahead run
12. May 25, 11-2 HOU- Indians led 2-0 through the 7th. Miller and Allen weren’t sharp in the 8th to go down 4-2. Wheels came completely off in the 9th
13. June 3, 7-5 MIN- Eddie Rosario game. Olson and Allen gave up 3 ER
Stark
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Here's the Indians 1-4 pitching rotation (as of June 6th) with their stats:
Corey Kluber: 9-2, 1.96 ERA, 0.85 WHIP, 95 K
Trevor Bauer: 4-4, 2.77 ERA, 1.16 WHIP, 97 K
Mike Clevinger: 4-2, 3.36 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, 64 K
Carlos Carrasco: 7-4, 4.23 ERA, 1.19 WHIP, 83 K
Pretty damn solid, although Carrasco's had a few bad games that make his counting numbers not look that great. Lower WHIP and more strikeouts than Clevinger, but almost a run worse in ERA. Carrasco is good and will likely settle into around a 3.20-3.40 ERA this season for all of those guys who are into that stat.
Here's a few rotations that I found comparable:
Houston
Justin Verlander: 7-2, 1.24 ERA, 0.72 WHIP, 104 K
Gerrit Cole: 7-1, 2.16 ERA, 0.84 WHIP, 124 K
Charlie Morton: 7-1, 2.84 ERA, 1.08 WHIP, 92 K
Lance McCullers: 7-3, 3.94 ERA, 1.19 WHIP, 76 K
Dallas Keuchel: 3-8, 4.13 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, 63 K
The best rotation in baseball right now in my mind. Their #5 guy this season is a former Cy Young award winner. McCullers has come back down to earth a bit, and I still expect Verlander and Cole to revert a bit to their norm, but both could easily be top-5 guys in the Cy Young race at the end of the season. I'll give this current Houston rotation the edge over Cleveland, especially since they have five consistent starters to our four.
LA Angels
Shohei Ohtani: 4-1, 3.10 ERA, 1.13 WHIP, 61 K
Andrew Heaney: 3-4, 3.12 ERA, 1.10 WHIP, 58 K
Garrett Richards: 4-4, 3.25 ERA, 1.23 WHIP, 69 K
Tyler Skaggs: 4-4, 3.27 ERA, 1.27 WHIP, 70 K
A bit of a surprising mention here, but the Angels' top-4 have been right up there with the best in the American league so far. I do think it's mostly an aberration and advanced stats say that they're overachieving for the most part, but I do think it's been interesting. I'd expect Richards and Heaney's numbers to tail down as the season goes on and Ohtani is currently on the DL. Their 5th starter, Tropeano, is nothing to write home about either.
Washington
Max Scherzer: 10-1, 1.95 ERA, 0.83 WHIP, 133 K
Gio Gonzalez: 6-2, 2.27 ERA, 1.23 WHIP, 72 K
Jeremy Hellickson: 2-0, 2.28 ERA, 0.92 WHIP, 34 K
Stephen Strasburg: 6-5, 3.20 ERA, 1.05 WHIP, 93 K
Tanner Roark: 3-6, 3.56 ERA, 1.09 WHIP, 65 K
In my mind, the best rotation in the National League is led by the best pitcher in baseball in Scherzer. Gonzalez, Strasburg, and Roark make up a helluva 2-4 in the rotation, and Hellickson, currently on the DL, has started out extremely strong. I'd place them ahead of Cleveland but behind Houston.
St. Louis
Carlos Martinez: 3-2, 1.83 ERA, 1.16 WHIP, 52 K
Miles Mikolas: 7-1, 2.27 ERA, 0.95 WHIP, 58 K
Michael Wacha: 7-1, 2.41 ERA, 1.09 WHIP, 61 K
Jack Flaherty: 2-2, 3.20 ERA, 1.16 WHIP, 42 K
Luke Weaver: 3-5, 4.12 ERA, 1.23 WHIP, 57 K
The best rotation in the NL Central is also very young, with none of these guys over 30 years old. Wainwright looks about done, so this should be their guys going the rest of the way. Martinez, Mikolas, and Wacha all have #1-2 guy stuff, but the jury is still out on Flaherty and Weaver who have a bit to prove.
Other Honorable Mentions
Boston (Sale, Price, Porcello, Rodriguez) - no current 5th guy with Pomeranz struggling and on the DL. Sale is pitching well, Price continues to face his decline a bit, and Porcello and Rodriguez are good middle of the rotation guys. Cleveland is definitely better.
Philadelphia (Nola, Arrieta, Pivetta, Velasquez, Eflin) - kind of an interesting group of guys here. They've got a lot of youth led by their ace Aaron Nola paired with Jake Arrieta. Worst ERA of this bunch is Velasquez with a 3.82, who also has the worst WHIP at 1.28. Advanced stats, like the Angels, say this group is overachieving a bit and should regress, but they've been damn solid to start the year.
LA Dodgers (Kershaw, Wood, Ryu, Hill, Maeda, Buechler) - four of these six guys are on the DL right now. They have a very high ceiling, but if they can't stay healthy, it won't matter.
If I had to, I'd currently rate the rotations in baseball:
1) Houston
2) Washington
3) St. Louis
4) Cleveland
5) LA Angels
6) Philadelphia
7) Boston
Healthy Dodgers playing up to par are probably top-4. And just for reference, the Yankees rotation sans Severino has been average at best. Tanaka and Gray's ERA/WHIP are 4.79/1.14 and 4.81/1.46 respectively. Sabathia has been pretty solid but is 57 years old. Montgomery is on the DL.
Corey Kluber: 9-2, 1.96 ERA, 0.85 WHIP, 95 K
Trevor Bauer: 4-4, 2.77 ERA, 1.16 WHIP, 97 K
Mike Clevinger: 4-2, 3.36 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, 64 K
Carlos Carrasco: 7-4, 4.23 ERA, 1.19 WHIP, 83 K
Pretty damn solid, although Carrasco's had a few bad games that make his counting numbers not look that great. Lower WHIP and more strikeouts than Clevinger, but almost a run worse in ERA. Carrasco is good and will likely settle into around a 3.20-3.40 ERA this season for all of those guys who are into that stat.
Here's a few rotations that I found comparable:
Houston
Justin Verlander: 7-2, 1.24 ERA, 0.72 WHIP, 104 K
Gerrit Cole: 7-1, 2.16 ERA, 0.84 WHIP, 124 K
Charlie Morton: 7-1, 2.84 ERA, 1.08 WHIP, 92 K
Lance McCullers: 7-3, 3.94 ERA, 1.19 WHIP, 76 K
Dallas Keuchel: 3-8, 4.13 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, 63 K
The best rotation in baseball right now in my mind. Their #5 guy this season is a former Cy Young award winner. McCullers has come back down to earth a bit, and I still expect Verlander and Cole to revert a bit to their norm, but both could easily be top-5 guys in the Cy Young race at the end of the season. I'll give this current Houston rotation the edge over Cleveland, especially since they have five consistent starters to our four.
LA Angels
Shohei Ohtani: 4-1, 3.10 ERA, 1.13 WHIP, 61 K
Andrew Heaney: 3-4, 3.12 ERA, 1.10 WHIP, 58 K
Garrett Richards: 4-4, 3.25 ERA, 1.23 WHIP, 69 K
Tyler Skaggs: 4-4, 3.27 ERA, 1.27 WHIP, 70 K
A bit of a surprising mention here, but the Angels' top-4 have been right up there with the best in the American league so far. I do think it's mostly an aberration and advanced stats say that they're overachieving for the most part, but I do think it's been interesting. I'd expect Richards and Heaney's numbers to tail down as the season goes on and Ohtani is currently on the DL. Their 5th starter, Tropeano, is nothing to write home about either.
Washington
Max Scherzer: 10-1, 1.95 ERA, 0.83 WHIP, 133 K
Gio Gonzalez: 6-2, 2.27 ERA, 1.23 WHIP, 72 K
Jeremy Hellickson: 2-0, 2.28 ERA, 0.92 WHIP, 34 K
Stephen Strasburg: 6-5, 3.20 ERA, 1.05 WHIP, 93 K
Tanner Roark: 3-6, 3.56 ERA, 1.09 WHIP, 65 K
In my mind, the best rotation in the National League is led by the best pitcher in baseball in Scherzer. Gonzalez, Strasburg, and Roark make up a helluva 2-4 in the rotation, and Hellickson, currently on the DL, has started out extremely strong. I'd place them ahead of Cleveland but behind Houston.
St. Louis
Carlos Martinez: 3-2, 1.83 ERA, 1.16 WHIP, 52 K
Miles Mikolas: 7-1, 2.27 ERA, 0.95 WHIP, 58 K
Michael Wacha: 7-1, 2.41 ERA, 1.09 WHIP, 61 K
Jack Flaherty: 2-2, 3.20 ERA, 1.16 WHIP, 42 K
Luke Weaver: 3-5, 4.12 ERA, 1.23 WHIP, 57 K
The best rotation in the NL Central is also very young, with none of these guys over 30 years old. Wainwright looks about done, so this should be their guys going the rest of the way. Martinez, Mikolas, and Wacha all have #1-2 guy stuff, but the jury is still out on Flaherty and Weaver who have a bit to prove.
Other Honorable Mentions
Boston (Sale, Price, Porcello, Rodriguez) - no current 5th guy with Pomeranz struggling and on the DL. Sale is pitching well, Price continues to face his decline a bit, and Porcello and Rodriguez are good middle of the rotation guys. Cleveland is definitely better.
Philadelphia (Nola, Arrieta, Pivetta, Velasquez, Eflin) - kind of an interesting group of guys here. They've got a lot of youth led by their ace Aaron Nola paired with Jake Arrieta. Worst ERA of this bunch is Velasquez with a 3.82, who also has the worst WHIP at 1.28. Advanced stats, like the Angels, say this group is overachieving a bit and should regress, but they've been damn solid to start the year.
LA Dodgers (Kershaw, Wood, Ryu, Hill, Maeda, Buechler) - four of these six guys are on the DL right now. They have a very high ceiling, but if they can't stay healthy, it won't matter.
If I had to, I'd currently rate the rotations in baseball:
1) Houston
2) Washington
3) St. Louis
4) Cleveland
5) LA Angels
6) Philadelphia
7) Boston
Healthy Dodgers playing up to par are probably top-4. And just for reference, the Yankees rotation sans Severino has been average at best. Tanaka and Gray's ERA/WHIP are 4.79/1.14 and 4.81/1.46 respectively. Sabathia has been pretty solid but is 57 years old. Montgomery is on the DL.
MirORich
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I’ll take mercurial personalities, one Championship, and 4 straight Finals appearances over a steady classy organization with a good approach but no titles any day of the week.
Not a knock on the Indians at all, as I do believe they are run very well given their market parameters, but just saying, in the end, the name of the game if winning a championship. Cavs won one 2 years ago. Indians last won one 60 years ago
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AZ_
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While I would like to use the Cavs championship to exemplify organizational stability, that’s not really the case.
The stability was having the best player in basketball history alongside the #1 draft pick you got for being so utterly terrible that he left the first time.
Beyond that, it’s hard to make an argument that the organization is stable compared to any other, much less one as generally well run as the Indians.
I want the good, classy organization. I just want some fuckin’ luck like the Cavs had.
MirORich
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That was not my point at all.
I felt I made it clear that the Indians were the far better run organization and have put themselves in position to compete for titles.
Just saying that although the dynamics in baseball and basketball are different, I would still take a championship, 4 straight Finals appearances and a drama filled unstable organization over one WS appearance and no titles(to date) from a better run, more stable organization.
I still love the Indians and admire and appreciate what their leadership has been able to set up and sustain since Shapiro left. And yes I hope they do win a WS and if and when they do, at that point, my perspective will change in terms of Indians vs Cavs, but as unfair as it is, it’s all about the Ring, no matter the pathway to it.
The Wizard of Moz
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The fact that Durant even has burners on fucking RCF amazes me
Urban
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Rockies could become deadline sellers if they continue to spiral while the Dodgers and D'Backs surge. They're trending the wrong way and have a -42 run differential.
Adam Ottavino has been a top 5 reliever this year and is a UFA in the offseason
0.95 ERA / 1.66 FIP
0.64 WHIP
14.3 K/9
Adam Ottavino has been a top 5 reliever this year and is a UFA in the offseason
0.95 ERA / 1.66 FIP
0.64 WHIP
14.3 K/9
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AZ_
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Easily the top target available, IMO.