Z not retiring next season?

[rabman_gold]

Regardless, you don't see any other 34 year old+ 7 footers averaging 7 points and 5 boards. In fact, you could say there's only 14 ever in the league that have done so.

• Kareem (7 times)
• Bill Cartwright
• Wilt Chamberlain (3 times)
• Vlade Divac (twice)
• Patrick Ewing (5 times)
• Artis Gilmore (4 times)
• Dikembe (twice)
• Shaq (four times, including this year)
• Hakeem (6 times)
• Robert Parish (7 times)
• David Robinson (4 times)
• Arvydas (3 times)
• Kevin Willis (5 times)
• And look! Z's the fourteenth guy, ha. You lose.

So Z's not a terrible guy, even only playing 21 or so minutes a night. 13 and 9 is still the same from previous years while Z managed to pick up the slack from early on.

You guys probably underestimate him too much due to his physical appearance and movement (which is sloth slow). That's unwise.

 

[Mo Williams]

Keys, we've seen it before, from Z in his better days. Against good teams, he vanishes into thin air, especially if he misses his first pick n pop. Hell, against a tailor-made match-up against the '06 Spurs, who trotted out the vaunted combo of Fabricio Oberto and Francisco Elson, he came up snake eyes.

Now? Against a team like the Hawks in the postseason? He's toast... crispy and charred.

He played 28 minutes tonight and got 5 whole rebounds against a team with no guy taller than 6'9.

Bury your heads in the sand if you like, but if Ferry wants to win a title this year, he does everything he can to get Antawn Jamison, Z included, buyout or no buyout. I'm done being sentimental.

I'd have to agree.

I'm not a "Z hater" or anything... but even I must admit... he is done and should retire.

 

[jlegg21]

Keys, I'm not arguing for nothing, and lord knows Mike wont ever figure it out, but our future is Andy at Center. If JJ isnt the answer, you upgrade that spot with a guy like Jamison and play LeBron there 10-15 mins a night and surround them with 3pt shooter (which we have).

I believe Bill Simmons (via Twitter) called that lineup "poop in your pants scary". I concur.

Z is done. If we get in this situation in the playoffs, it's gonna be last year v Orlando all over again. Tell me you cant see it. Orlando in round 2, game one at the Q, and Shaq gets 2 fouls in the first minute of the ball game. Does anyone like those odds?

 

[Randolphkeys]

I'd have to agree.

I'm not a "Z hater" or anything... but even I must admit... he is done and should retire.

I find it interesting that the Z haters never use any statistical data that back their points, while those posters who claim Z is a solid backup center consistently use hard evidence. Just interesting, that is all.

 

[Backstage]

Did Z lose the game for us, or did the 11 missed free throws? Or our poor outside game? Or our desire only to play in the 2nd half? Or the fact that Boozer left in free agency? Or that John Kuester is coaching Detroit now?

Putting the blame of a loss on a role player is laughable, especially one who had 11 and 5 with zippo turnovers and was +10 on the floor (whether you take that stat seriously doesn't change the fact that it's still a stat).

Will he still want to play after this season? Who knows. But to ignore his importance is PIPesque.

 

[jlegg21]

His importance would be his contract, which could net us Antawn Jamison. Or do you like his defense too?

The Nuggets scored 47 points in the paint tonight, Z pulled down those 5 rebounds in 28 minutes against an undersized front line. He cant catch a pass unless it buries into his breadbasket.

What am I missing??

 

[Randolphkeys]

His importance would be his contract, which could net us Antawn Jamison. Or do you like his defense too?

The Nuggets scored 47 points in the paint tonight, Z pulled down those 5 rebounds in 28 minutes against an undersized front line. He cant catch a pass unless it buries into his breadbasket.

What am I missing??

You are missing the fact the Cavs outrebounded the Nuggs 45 to 33, for starters. You are missing the fact every credible mind who covers the NBA says Z's hands are one of his greatest attributes.

I'm starting to have a hard time holding back here, fresh meat... your arguments aren't very impressive this evening, yet you are posting like we pay you by the word.

 

[Backstage]

His importance would be his contract, which could net us Antawn Jamison. Or do you like his defense too?

The Nuggets scored 47 points in the paint tonight, Z pulled down those 5 rebounds in 28 minutes against an undersized front line. He cant catch a pass unless it buries into his breadbasket.

What am I missing??

I am all about getting Jamison, and I understand Z will 99% have to be a part of that, but the difference is: I'm hoping he gets bought out because he brings the opposite of what Shaq brings, and that will still throw teams off as long as they're used effectively, though that was difficult with the whistles on Shaq tonight.

Lakers had no answer for Twin Towers. Z will hit the shots down. He still has some hustle in him, but to say he has no worth because the coach made the decision to leave him out there (though there wasn't much else to do but go small) just doesn't make sense to me. Soft, yeah. He was last year. He's been for a long time. His strength is not in defense, and if you say he should be off the team because he's not a good defender anymore, then why do we have Mo?

 

[Otsego Mar]

I don't know what to tell you, jlegg. Z is our backup center, and I have it on good authority that the Cavs were trying to acquire another backup center for over a month. We couldn't get one.

When Shaq is in foul trouble, it's Z or nothing, and you are arguing for nothing. Nothing just doesn't work. Do I want a young athletic backup center? Anyone who has read my posts in the last six years knows that answer. I can't wait for one.

BTW: The Cavs rebounded fairly well tonight. We just didn't attack on offense, and on the rare occasion we did, the refs didn't call the game equitably.

Jamison is a guy that will attack on offense.

 

[Backstage]

Mike Brown did not give a good answer, in my opinion, as to why he left Shaq on the floor to get his fifth foul midway through the third quarter. Shaq played well in spurts in this game, but he was a step slow several times and he committed two very cheap fouls that put him in that spot. He's an offensive weapon though and the Nuggets had trouble handling him. When he left with the fouls he never came back and the Cavs usually would have played him to start the fourth. Perhaps if they had, they would not have allowed fast 13-2 run to start the quarter, especially seeing how Nene came out attacking against Zydrunas Ilgauskas.


Here's what Mike said: "It was an experiment, I wanted to see what would happen because we haven't been in that situation before."

Experiment result = fail.

Via Windy.

First time we were in that situation, first time Mike Brown tried such a long substitution with Z, first time it failed. You can only ask so much out of a player like Z at his age, and he was asked too much. Sure, I wish he was as quick as he used to be (slightly speedier than a snail), but he was put into a role where he was overwhelmed.

 

[Otsego Mar]

And Z was NOT the problem tonight.

Not having Antawn Jamison was

 

[Backstage]

And Z was NOT the problem tonight.

Not having Antawn Jamison was

You are killin' me, Smalls.

 

[Otsego Mar]

Here's what Mike said: "It was an experiment, I wanted to see what would happen because we haven't been in that situation before."

What, to see what it would be like to go without Shaq, in the event we use his expiring contract instead of Z's? :chuckles:

What situation......not too sure about all that.

Can't wait to see Powe here soon........somebody's gonna be the odd man out, especially with..I mean if Jamison is here.

 

[jlegg21]

My bad Keys, I'll toe the company line. Off night, poor team performance, bad officials and some luck for the Nuggets at the end.

As I said from the beginning, Mike Brown is at fault for 'experimenting' and leaving Z out there to die. I dont hate Z, I dont want him off the team necessarily, but if Jamison or someone of that caliber comes available, dont sweat the buyout and make a deal.

It's unfortunate really, that even in the rare 10% of instances where Mike's 'experiments' work (Andy, Bron, Parker, West, Mo = crunch time 5), dude doesnt have the sense to go to it more often.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Jamison is a guy that will attack on offense.

Isn't that the jump shooter who can't defend J.J. Hickson? The guy who was already reported as NOT being available for just Z's expiring? How would he have attacked the defense and held K-Mart in check?

As we approach the trade deadline, its amazing to me how players on losing teams suddenly walk on water while Cavs contributors are suddenly worthless.

Hell, I'd like to trade Z for Bosh, but just like the Jamison deal, journalists say that the deal has been turned down.