Z not retiring next season?

[Otsego Mar]

I have a defensive ranking of sort.

Here is an article explaining exactly what adjusted plus/minus is and does: http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/4082/meet-adjusted-plus-minus

I am not going to explain it at all, I will let the article speak for itself. However, I post these stats with somewhat of an asterisk. This stat is very fluky and can have some random noise. For example, Dwight Howard had a very average rating last year. That doesn't mean it's a bad stat, it just means it's still a very new statistic that we are still learning about. Take what you want out of it. If you want some good examples of it, LeBron, Pryzbilla, Ben Wallace, and Marcus Camby were all at the top of the league last year, all very good defenders.

For a much more in-depth explanation, go here: http://www.82games.com/barzilai2.htm



As for the ratings, they don't favor Jamison at all. He has the worst defensive rating on the Wizards this year, at +7.87.

http://basketballvalue.com/teamplay...mber=85&sortorder=ASC&team=WAS&year=2009-2010 (FYI- you can change the year in the top right corner)

Now, since this year is an admittedly small sample size, so we can go back to last year also. While it was better at +1.88, it still leaves something to be desired.

Z this year is at +2.14. Last year, however, he was at -3.19. (on a side note, AV leads the league with a -13.74.)

Sometimes stats don't always tell the story though. Here is Hollinger's opinion:



My take from all this is that Jamison is average, at best. However, we have had much worse defenders than Jamison starting at PF, and we have always been a top 3 team in the league in terms of defense no matter who was starting at PF. I have said this before, I don't really think it matters how bad a defender we get at PF. I trust MB to make it work.

You'll have to excuse me Obawan...but none of those #'s you listed match-up when I went to check them, at least from what I can tell.

Don't you think Cleveland's D is just a tad bit better than Washington's....and that might have a little bit to do with why Jamison has a lower rating? You said it yourself, you don't think it would be a huge deal plugging Jamison into our line-up because of Mike Brown's defensive mentality and our team defense.

 

[Otsego Mar]

This is disproving your point, look who is number 13, a player that is known for being a terrible defender a great statistical player but an all time Loser. Jamison has his plusses, but he has some huge minuses too. I almost think he is a better attituded version of zach randolph. Sure he could help, but you dont over pay for a limmited player just because he puts up good offensive numbers.

For the last time.....Z for Jamison or even Z/JJ for Jamison/Blatche is NOT overpaying, IMO. I honestly cannot believe we are talking about defense here with players like Z, Mo, and JJ Hickson playing meaningful minutes for our team. And Jamison is LIMITED?? (lets talk about it over in the Jamison thread before Keys gets mad...I'm just responding to your posts)

 

[The Oi]

BigMar shares a father-son type bond with BigRandolph.

 

[Otsego Mar]

BigMar shares a father-son type bond with BigRandolph.

lol apparently. But let's keep this on topic batboy.

I still wouldn't doubt it if Z ends up retiring, especially if we win a ring. And who knows how his body holds up until then.

 

[PIP]

Z needs to retire, and quite frankly it would be selfish if he didn't... He just adopted two boys.. Now, these aren't toddlers he adopted.. In fact, these two young men are in critical developmental stages of their lives...

They need a father figure around during these all so important years...Do it for the kids, Z...

That's just how I view things...

 

[jlegg21]

Stat me to death if you like, and last night was just one loss in 82 games, but this is how I view it.

If we get matched up with a team like Orlando or Atlanta in the playoffs, and Shaq has the kind of foul trouble he had tonight over the course of a 7 game series, I feel that we are in some serious trouble matching up with their athleticism up front, especially at the C position.

Two ways to combat that issue... go small and athletic with Bron and Andy at the 4/5 spots, and try to outscore these teams, or roll the dice with Z playing heavy minutes in place of Shaq.

This is why picking up Jamison's offense is such an intriguing move in my mind.

 

[Maximus]

Stat me to death if you like, and last night was just one loss in 82 games, but this is how I view it.

If we get matched up with a team like Orlando or Atlanta in the playoffs, and Shaq has the kind of foul trouble he had tonight over the course of a 7 game series, I feel that we are in some serious trouble matching up with their athleticism up front, especially at the C position.

Two ways to combat that issue... go small and athletic with Bron and Andy at the 4/5 spots, and try to outscore these teams, or roll the dice with Z playing heavy minutes in place of Shaq.

This is why picking up Jamison's offense is such an intriguing move in my mind.

I'm in favor of getting Jamison, just thought complaining about Z's rebounding was weak and irrelevant to the loss last night.

 

[Randolphkeys]

lol apparently. But let's keep this on topic batboy.

:chuckles:

Are you sure you want that? I mean, the topic is Z and his future playing career, not Jamison.

 

[jlegg21]

Totally fair...

I'm starting to think I need to sleep on it before posting after a loss like last night's. Z became my universal whipping boy for a team-wide letdown. No one had their 'A' game last night and the officiating was horrid.

 

[ChicagoCavFan]

If we get matched up with a team like Orlando or Atlanta in the playoffs, and Shaq has the kind of foul trouble he had tonight over the course of a 7 game series, I feel that we are in some serious trouble matching up with their athleticism up front, especially at the C position.

Well, that was the case last year and we swept Atlanta, and played Orlando tough (and would have won if they weren't so efficient from the outside, where Z had no effect).

I do get your point though...:chuckles:

We just play completely different offenses dependent upon who is at the center position (Shaq, Z or Andy). They are all completely different. Depending on who we are matched up with, each one can offer advantages the other cannot. And I think that is what is going to make us so tough to defend in the playoffs against anyone.

 

[Maximus]

Totally fair...

I'm starting to think I need to sleep on it before posting after a loss like last night's. Z became my universal whipping boy for a team-wide letdown. No one had their 'A' game last night and the officiating was horrid.

No worries, that's been a tradition here after most losses for years. :chuckles:
Z is such a unique asset for a team with a player like Lebron. Even if Z isn't playing well or hitting his shot, he pulls a big out onto the perimeter...that is huge! That makes life significantly easier for Lebron and it doesn't show up on the stat sheet for Z.

If you look at our top 10 lineups from a +/- standpoint, Z is in our top 3 lineups and 6 of the top 8. Shaq is only in our 10th...that's it.
Lebron paired with Z is +191. Lebron paired with Shaq is +18.

I'm not trying to diminish the importance of Shaq, especially in the playoffs, I totally get that. I'm just trying to point out again that anyone saying Z is finished and should retire, simply doesn't understand basketball. Everything revolves around Lebron. It's more important how Lebron plays when Z is on the floor than how Z plays himself. Just having Z standing in the corner makes it significantly easier for Lebron, Andy, Delonte or Mo to get loose and get easy buckets. Z's chemistry with Andy and Lebron is just outstanding. This is why Z can be effective beyond this year.

 

[WeinerSoBig]

Z needs to retire, and quite frankly it would be selfish if he didn't... He just adopted two boys.. Now, these aren't toddlers he adopted.. In fact, these two young men are in critical developmental stages of their lives...

They need a father figure around during these all so important years...Do it for the kids, Z...

That's just how I view things...

How could those poor kids survive, knowing that their father (who makes 11.5 million per year) is out on the road 42 times during the year? If that doesn't scream negligence, then I don't know what does!

 

[Obawan12]

You'll have to excuse me Obawan...but none of those #'s you listed match-up when I went to check them, at least from what I can tell.

It is a bit confusing. Make sure you are looking at the "1 Year Def Rtg" column. Also, make sure you are looking at the right year. Remember, with defensive adjusted plus/minus, the smaller the better, so -10 is better than -7, and +1 is better than +5, etc.

http://basketballvalue.com/teamplay...mber=85&sortorder=ASC&team=WAS&year=2009-2010

That link is the entire Wizards team, sorted from best to worst in the "1 Year Def Rtg" column, and it is for the 09-10 season. Jamison is at the bottom, with a 7.87.

 

[xAusT1n]

I love Z and would not mind him for 2-3 more years. Sure he doesn't hang around in the post but hes a great asset to our offense with the pick and pop and hes just tall as fuck. Stay as long as you want Z.

 

[AvonCavsFan]

NBA Efficient Rankings:

NBA.com evaluates all players based on the efficiency formula: ((Points + Rebounds + Assists + Steals + Blocks) - ((Field Goals Att. - Field Goals Made) + (Free Throws Att. - Free Throws Made) + Turnovers)).

1. LeBron James (30.7)
4. Kobe Bryant (26.0)
5. Pau Gasol (25.9)
9. Kevin Martin (25.2)
12. Carlos Boozer (24.4)
13. Zach Randolph (24.2)
~
30. Andre Iguodala (20.6)
33. Antawn Jamison (20.4)
~
41. Troy Murphy (19.1)
48. Corey Maggette (18.3)
49. David West (18.3)
~
57. Mo Williams (16.9)
~
62. Lamar Odom (16.6)
67. Elton Brand (16.0)
69. Caron Butler (15.8)
~
92. Anthony Randolph (14.5)
94. Anderson Varejao (14.4)
~
125. Shaquille O`neal (12.5)
~
142. Andre Blatche (11.2)
~
172. Zydrunas Ilgauskas (9.9)
~
222. J.J. Hickson (7.7)


No, this doesn't mean everything.....but Keys this is a tree you shouldn't be barking up. I'm not hating on any Cavs player or saying they're worthless (we are a good team). I just want better players on this team and to win a championship, and if you have to give up Z (or get him back) to get Jamison.....you do that 100 times out of 100.

NOBODY held Kenyon whoopdy doo Martin in check tonight.

And as for the trade "not being available", I'll believe it if I see it not happen. 40 days 'till the deadline. Who knows what we'll do with West, Z, JJ....or the rest. And who knows what changes between now and then.

That is not actually true. Kenyon did 90% of his damage in the 1st Quarter with JJ in the game, he started 7-9. Over the final 3 quarters when Andy played he went 2 for 12. We killed the Nuggets on the boards 45-33.

People are complaining that Z had just 5 boards, just because a player doesn't get a rebound doesn't mean they didn't do a good job boxing out. Andy was a beast on the boards and got to a lot of the rebounds Z may have gotten.

If Andy would not have been called for the charge everyone would have been talking about Z's clutch three that he made on that play.

And some stats from Z's "terrible" game against the Nuggets:

I do agree with some of you that I would have liked to see an Andy-Lebron-Parker-West-Mo lineup against that Nuggets team.