Z not retiring next season?

[Otsego Mar]

NBA Efficient Rankings:

NBA.com evaluates all players based on the efficiency formula: ((Points + Rebounds + Assists + Steals + Blocks) - ((Field Goals Att. - Field Goals Made) + (Free Throws Att. - Free Throws Made) + Turnovers)).

1. LeBron James (30.7)
4. Kobe Bryant (26.0)
5. Pau Gasol (25.9)
9. Kevin Martin (25.2)
12. Carlos Boozer (24.4)
13. Zach Randolph (24.2)
~
30. Andre Iguodala (20.6)
33. Antawn Jamison (20.4)
~
41. Troy Murphy (19.1)
48. Corey Maggette (18.3)
49. David West (18.3)
~
57. Mo Williams (16.9)
~
62. Lamar Odom (16.6)
67. Elton Brand (16.0)
69. Caron Butler (15.8)
~
92. Anthony Randolph (14.5)
94. Anderson Varejao (14.4)
~
125. Shaquille O`neal (12.5)
~
142. Andre Blatche (11.2)
~
172. Zydrunas Ilgauskas (9.9)
~
222. J.J. Hickson (7.7)


No, this doesn't mean everything.....but Keys this is a tree you shouldn't be barking up. I'm not hating on any Cavs player or saying they're worthless (we are a good team). I just want better players on this team and to win a championship, and if you have to give up Z (or get him back) to get Jamison.....you do that 100 times out of 100.

NOBODY held Kenyon whoopdy doo Martin in check tonight.

And as for the trade "not being available", I'll believe it if I see it not happen. 40 days 'till the deadline. Who knows what we'll do with West, Z, JJ....or the rest. And who knows what changes between now and then.

 

[Otsego Mar]

But of course I respect your opinion Keys......I'm just very confident that adding Jamison WILL win us a championship this year. But as for Z - I know I'm getting off topic - as I've said before, he's a great counter-act to Shaq when he's on.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Way to find the stats that don't factor in Jamison's crap defense, Biggie.

This should be in the Trade Talk thread.

 

[daytripper]

And Z was NOT the problem tonight.

Not having Antawn Jamison was

Apparently Washington's GM may not want to trade Jamison for Z. What part of that do you not understand? It does take 2 GM's to make a deal. Ferry just can't snap his fingers and trade Z's expiring for a 2nd option.

 

[Otsego Mar]

Way to find the stats that don't factor in Jamison's crap defense, Biggie.

This should be in the Trade Talk thread.

I'd love to see a defensive ranking of some sort........but who did Z hold in check tonight? Rashard didn't have a good game tonight vs. Jamison. I know it's just 1 game....nothing to get excited about.

Z and defense is not like sliced bread. Neither is Jamison. Well, yea....they are the bread and the other players are the knife.

 

[jlegg21]

So Z has already come out and said he wants to continue to play, here in Cleveland, next season. Assuming LeBron stays, what do you pay him if you're Ferry? BAE, MLE, etc?

This is also assuming he isnt traded without a buyout, which is the most likely scenario. I'm starting to get the feeling no one is interested in that kind of trade.

There, we're back on topic.

 

[Gunther]

I'd love to see a defensive ranking of some sort........but who did Z hold in check tonight? Rashard didn't have a good game tonight vs. Jamison. I know it's just 1 game....nothing to get excited about.

Z and defense is not like sliced bread. Neither is Jamison. Well, yea....they are the bread and the other players are the knife.

The perimeter D sucked. You called Mo out in the game thread for his matador defense, and you were right. When Delonte put the clamps on for that spurt, the low post scoring lessened for the Nuggets.

Z is not going to play Shaq-like post defense, but few in the league even can. And BTW, Shaq was called for 5 quick fouls for that style of play tonight.

 

[Maximus]

Assuming Z gets traded this year... and assuming Z wants more then the vet minimum to come back the Cavs would have to use the MLE to sign him.

Not necessarily Ben. If Z wants more than the vet minimum, Ferry could do what the Spurs did for him on his last contract. Sign him to a 2 year deal at vet minimum with the understanding that he's only going to play one....or sign him for 3 with the understanding he will only play two more. It's a win-win....Z gets a little more money, Cavs dont' use BAE or MLE and can use his contract in a trade again after he's done.
Fun fact: how many people know that Danny technically finished his career as a Pacer?

 

[The Oi]

Fun fact:

There's only two classes of people who use the phrase "fun fact."

I'll let you guess what they are.

:gheylaf:
:gayfite:

 

[I.K.W.T]

There's only two classes of people who use the phrase "fun fact."

I'll let you guess what they are.

:gheylaf:
:gayfite:

The music guy on Letterman???????

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/lbpYlFIA4PI&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/lbpYlFIA4PI&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

 

[Obawan12]

I'd love to see a defensive ranking of some sort........but who did Z hold in check tonight? Rashard didn't have a good game tonight vs. Jamison. I know it's just 1 game....nothing to get excited about.

Z and defense is not lhttp://realcavsfans.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=721261ike sliced bread. Neither is Jamison. Well, yea....they are the bread and the other players are the knife.

I have a defensive ranking of sort.

Here is an article explaining exactly what adjusted plus/minus is and does: http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/4082/meet-adjusted-plus-minus

I am not going to explain it at all, I will let the article speak for itself. However, I post these stats with somewhat of an asterisk. This stat is very fluky and can have some random noise. For example, Dwight Howard had a very average rating last year. That doesn't mean it's a bad stat, it just means it's still a very new statistic that we are still learning about. Take what you want out of it. If you want some good examples of it, LeBron, Pryzbilla, Ben Wallace, and Marcus Camby were all at the top of the league last year, all very good defenders.

For a much more in-depth explanation, go here: http://www.82games.com/barzilai2.htm

It is important to note that the adjusted +/- rating is not a “holy grail” statistic that perfectly captures each player’s overall value. The ratings reported here are limited by a number of factors. First, because they are estimates calculated using a complex statistical model, such ratings tend to be somewhat “noisy” with substantial estimation error unless a very large sample of games is used. In practice, even a full NBA season does not provide an adequate sample size to fully eliminate this issue.

As for the ratings, they don't favor Jamison at all. He has the worst defensive rating on the Wizards this year, at +7.87.

http://basketballvalue.com/teamplay...mber=85&sortorder=ASC&team=WAS&year=2009-2010 (FYI- you can change the year in the top right corner)

Now, since this year is an admittedly small sample size, so we can go back to last year also. While it was better at +1.88, it still leaves something to be desired.

Z this year is at +2.14. Last year, however, he was at -3.19. (on a side note, AV leads the league with a -13.74.)

Sometimes stats don't always tell the story though. Here is Hollinger's opinion:

If Jamison has a weakness, it's his defense, and the absence of Brendan Haywood last year magnified that problem. He's a disinterested help defender who rarely blocks shots or takes charges, and quicker forwards beat him off the dribble easily because his lateral movement isn't great. He does a decent job on the boards and doesn't foul, but he needs to be paired with a big, tough center to hide his shortcomings.

My take from all this is that Jamison is average, at best. However, we have had much worse defenders than Jamison starting at PF, and we have always been a top 3 team in the league in terms of defense no matter who was starting at PF. I have said this before, I don't really think it matters how bad a defender we get at PF. I trust MB to make it work.

 

[Maximus]

He played 28 minutes tonight and got 5 whole rebounds against a team with no guy taller than 6'9.

We held them to 33 rebounds...I'd guess that was near the lowest in the league last night. Not to mention that half of the time Z is assigned to be out on the perimeter which limits his rebounding opportunities. Seems like you are reaching by pointing at Z's rebounds as being any sort of factor in the loss.
We were +11 when he was on the floor last night...best on the team.

 

[ChicagoCavFan]

IMO, this is a case of some posters making Z the scapegoat for a bad road loss. These types of posts would not be around after his three 3-pointer OT effort, or some of the other games he's played over the last month and a half.

Our offense when Z was in the game almost the entire 2nd half had Z outside the 3-point line in the corner to open up the lane for drives. Unfortunately, LeBron was defended very effectively by Denver. The argument for last nights loss should not be Z, but our ineffective offensive sets. They were playing aggressive man defense. Why not run some motion? We did a couple times (when a couple guys run off an under the basket screen, ultimately getting LeBron the ball at the top of the key in motion)...guess what, he got a layup!

We went into "protection" mode...leaving our aggressiveness on the bench. I think some of the guys on the team assumed we would get the win in the end...it sure looked like it the way they played. Unfortunately, Denver hit their shots.

This loss has nothing to do with Z.

 

[Lee]

NBA Efficient Rankings:

NBA.com evaluates all players based on the efficiency formula: ((Points + Rebounds + Assists + Steals + Blocks) - ((Field Goals Att. - Field Goals Made) + (Free Throws Att. - Free Throws Made) + Turnovers)).

1. LeBron James (30.7)
4. Kobe Bryant (26.0)
5. Pau Gasol (25.9)
9. Kevin Martin (25.2)
12. Carlos Boozer (24.4)
13. Zach Randolph (24.2)
~
30. Andre Iguodala (20.6)
33. Antawn Jamison (20.4)
~
41. Troy Murphy (19.1)
48. Corey Maggette (18.3)
49. David West (18.3)
~
57. Mo Williams (16.9)
~
62. Lamar Odom (16.6)
67. Elton Brand (16.0)
69. Caron Butler (15.8)
~
92. Anthony Randolph (14.5)
94. Anderson Varejao (14.4)
~
125. Shaquille O`neal (12.5)
~
142. Andre Blatche (11.2)
~
172. Zydrunas Ilgauskas (9.9)
~
222. J.J. Hickson (7.7)


No, this doesn't mean everything.....but Keys this is a tree you shouldn't be barking up. I'm not hating on any Cavs player or saying they're worthless (we are a good team). I just want better players on this team and to win a championship, and if you have to give up Z (or get him back) to get Jamison.....you do that 100 times out of 100.

NOBODY held Kenyon whoopdy doo Martin in check tonight.

And as for the trade "not being available", I'll believe it if I see it not happen. 40 days 'till the deadline. Who knows what we'll do with West, Z, JJ....or the rest. And who knows what changes between now and then.

This is disproving your point, look who is number 13, a player that is known for being a terrible defender a great statistical player but an all time Loser. Jamison has his plusses, but he has some huge minuses too. I almost think he is a better attituded version of zach randolph. Sure he could help, but you dont over pay for a limmited player just because he puts up good offensive numbers.

 

[Lee]

Also, as much as i think we should have gone to a small lineup some when shaq got into foul trouble, Z by no means lost us the games. Poor ft shooting and 19 turnovers lost us the game. DO better in either of those 2 areas, not even both, and we win the game by 5-10.