Zydrunas Ilgauskas - Game #724 - Cavaliers record

[castor777]

The game was against Phoenix, and it was one of my favorite memories (still on my top 10 LeBron games as well).

It was LeBron's 2nd year, and I was still living in Salt Lake City - one of my roommates was a basketball fan so we were able to watch the game on TNT. I talked so much about how great LeBron was, and throughout the game he was living up to my hype, but the Suns were downright kicking our ass and we were down by 19 going into the fourth quarter. The commentators were talking about how badly the team was getting boo'ed and how many people were exiting the "Gund" Arena.

Then the comeback started. Absolutely amazing to watch things turn around in those next 12 minutes - it was the first time in a really long time as a Cavs fan where I was completely engulfed and thrilled to be watching them. It was an amazing turnaround, and we were down by 3 in the final seconds in the 4th quarter.

Time out.

I was as sure as everyone we'd either see a huge LeBron highlight or hear about another loss.

Team comes back on the floor, Bron says something to Z that seems meaningless.

Ball is inbounded, everyone defends LeBron.

Passes to a wide-open Z for 3..

My reaction "Z??? He can't hit a..."

BAM! GOES IN!

"Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Won it in overtime, with more Z and LeBron highlights.

 

[thetruth]

Luckily, the team is bigger than all this. Mike Brown created a major distraction by not being attentive to all details in the game against Dallas. He slighted Z on a day that he knew was very important to him ...we've covered all that.

Then in the aftermath, his initial responses to Z were basically validating that it was a conscious decsion that he made to bench him on that particular day, irregardless.

When he realized the significance of his oversight, and he was getting wrath from Lebron, the owner, GM etc ... his tune changed and he wanted to talk to Z and admit he made a mistake.

But, just prior to that someone decided, to take some heat off Mike Brown, to float a rumor that Z said he didn't want to play in the 2nd half, which was a lie.

I think Z is pissed off by Mike Brown's initial response to him which was basically I'm the coach and I play who I play when I decide to play them. Then, once Mike Brown realized the extent to which this upset Lebron, the owner, and GM, he began backtracking and saying he was sorry, and it was a mistake.

Then I think the capper was, he feels MB was behind a false rumor that was floated to try and take the heat off the coach, that Z asked out of the game in the 2nd half. That was an outright lie, and that really upset Z.

It's turned into a soap opera, and it needs to die.

The team is far bigger than Mike Brown, and this whole pathetic uncalled for and unnecassary ordeal and distraction.

Luckily, Mike Malone has the offense beginning to click at a higher and more diverse level than we have seen since Mike Brown took over the reigns. The defense has played more consistently as well..

I'll tell you this ...Mike Brown was being scrutinized before all this went down, and the front office and owner aren't at all happy with the recent decisions and communications problems that have been coming from our head coach.

My first post here. The whole rumor that Z asked to sit out is very shady. Here's the thing - Brian Windhorst is the one who reported that Z asked to sit out. Windhorst wouldn't have reported that unless it was coming from a souce close to the team who he trusted. Seems to me that there are only 2-3 people who could've told Windy that "rumor" for him to report on it (Mike Brown, Ferry, and maybe 1 or 2 other people). I don't think Ferry would do that, and I don't think anyone in the organization would leak a fake rumor, but Mike Brown was the only one getting heat, and that makes me think Mike Brown is the main suspect...but, It could've been someone else in the organization who was trying to help Mike Brown out by taking heat off of him. I think Z is right to suspect Mike Brown of leaking that rumor to take heat off of him and it's a very shady move by Mike Brown if that is what he did. If Mike Brown did in fact leak a false rumor in order to take heat off of himself, then he should be fired immediately.

Anyway, what I really want to know is - why on Earth would Mike Brown make such a bonehead decision to not play Z on such an important occassion? Something tells me Mike Brown has been feeling pressure this season from Ferry and Gilbert to make certain changes to his gameplan (like starting JJ Hickson). Starting a young player goes completely against Mike Brown's stubborn tendency to favor older players and it goes against his strange and illogical hatred for young players. This makes me think Ferry and/or Gilbert forced his hand and told him to "start Hickson or else."

Anwyay, I think ever since losing to Orlando, Ferry and Gilbert have been having a lot of "talks" with Mike Brown and they have been forcing him to make changes. I think not playing Z was Mike Brown's way of saying "F you" to Ferry and Gilbert and asserting his authority. It was the ultimate power trip. I think there have been bad feelings between Mike Brown and Danny Ferry since last year's playoffs, and since Mike Brown knows Z is close to Ferry, he decided to bench Z as the ultimate "F you" to Ferry...as if to say "this is my team and you won't tell me how to run it."

That's a summary of how I see this whole thing.

 

[Jon]

My first post here. The whole rumor that Z asked to sit out is very shady. Here's the thing - Brian Windhorst is the one who reported that Z asked to sit out.

I think it was Mary Schmidt Boyer - unless Windy got the same scoop as well, and there are at least two more appropriate threads for your question than this one.

 

[wuck]

I think it was Mary Schmidt Boyer - unless Windy got the same scoop as well.

You're right. It was reported in a Boyer column (and it was added many hours after the original story was posted) and also reported by Terry Pluto. I don't know if Windhorst reported this in one of his various forums (although I incorrectly thought he did and said as much in a post above, which I've edited).

 

[Chardon]

I drove his Denali he traded in to the dealership i work(ed) at. You best believe i stalked him around the dealership like a 10 year NYSNC girl fan.

 

[MDLT]

So much for this being a thread celebrating Z . Any topic that presents a chance to take a dig at Mike Brown, you have to do it right?

Anyway, by far my fondest memories of Z were any number of his dry remarks during interviews.

 

[Gunther]

Unlike many other instances in the past ...in this particular issue, the organization has pretty much left Mike Brown out on an island. He's the lone voice in the organization from that side of the ledger. Which, after all these days now, is very telling.

In just about every controversial issue that has come up in the past, the organization has always made sure to have Mke Brown's back and defend and support his decisions. That did not happen in the least this time around. In fact, their reactions toward Mike Brown have been stone cold.

This is the thing that I have noticed most as well - in fact, the organization's response to MB has been glaring in their silence.

I think we have just seen a side of MB that has been known about behind the scenes for some time, but never publically. He made a mistake, then got backed into a corner by everyone else's silence and LeBron's comments.

Time will tell how he moves on from this mistake. He has the opportunity to put it behind him if handled the right way, and frankly, that is exactly what one would expect from a head coach of a pro team.

We shall see. I feel it's all up to MB to put this in the past. I think you've heard the last out of everyone else on the topic.

 

[Rimage]

Hmm...seeing that interview, it was clear Z was still upset about something. It sucks that this has reached this state. If all this is true about Z and Mike Brown, it is probably some of the worst news I have heard coming out of the Cavs in a very long time.

Two grown men should be able to talk about this and deal with it. More than anything, this kind of stuff can bring down a team. But, I do believe it still can be worked out.

Remember when Andy was a FA? There were all those stories about Andy and Ferry not getting along. There was this little nugget:

On each side, the frustration level has been rising the past few weeks, as Varejao is left in limbo in Brazil, and as the Cavs have struggled coming out of the gate in training camp and the regular season.
In October, Ferry made a surprise visit to see Varejao at his parents’ home in Brazil in an attempt to convince him to sign.
The move backfired. Ferry showed up without telling Fegan, and working around an agent is a no-no in the NBA. While GMs are allowed to talk with players without an agent present, it is customary that all contract talk goes through an agent.
“I was shocked,” Varejao said. “He showed up and wanted me to sign a contract. I told him he’s got to talk to my agent. He didn’t even up his offer. I guess he thought if he just showed up, I would just sign whatever he gave me.”
Ferry walked away with no deal and with an angry free agent on his hands.
He defends his decision to appeal directly to Varejao.
“From the start of free agency, we told Anderson and his agent that the ability to communicate with him directly was going to be very important to the process,” Ferry said. “The trip was done because our communication with Anderson was no longer available to us.”
Since that incident, there hasn’t been much trust or movement on either side.

http://justgivemethestats.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/proof-that-danny-ferry-sucks-as-if-you-needed-more/

It looked like Andys days as a Cav were over. Well, it all got dealt with. It's a non-issue now. I hope Z and Mike Brown go the same route. Mike Brown first let his appreciation of Z be known when he chased him down in the airport to convince him that this team wanted him. Hopefully he can prove to Z again that he does respect and appreciate him.

On a sweeter note, everything else that has come out of this situation has been positive. The entire team has given Z all their support. When it comes down to it, I would rather have a united team, then a united player and coach. Those guys on the floor are the most important factors and it seems like the chemistry is definitely there.

 

[johnnycake44022]

Mike Brown, to me, appears to be a petulant angry child at this point. I listened to him with Joe Tait before the Phoenix game and he has no explanation for what happened and seemed very sheepish, but unmoved in his opinions. Also, I was at the game and whenever Z walked by him, he would turn the other way and talk to other assistant coaches. It’s obvious he is mad about something and is holding out like a child who knows they are wrong but has a temper tantrum anyways. Most likely, after reading W&G post, he did it to strike back at Ferry and Gilbert who assumed Z would play and had a celebration planned.

Mike, so you are under a microscope. Welcome to reality when you mess up (see scrapping our offense last year and going back to leiso in the playoffs last year). He has to understand that with the Lebron thing hanging over EVERYONE'S head (including Ferry and Gilbert) that others are going to be giving input and like it or not, he is the 3rd man on the totem pole. If I were him, I would let them take some control and responsibility, because if LeBron walks and he was given full control, he would be fully blamed. By sharing the power, those involved share the consequences.

 

[Cavatt]

Mike Brown would not address the situation on his radio show. He said, "Let's do what Z said, and move on and win a championship for Cleveland." He wishes it would go away.

That is like the time my friend was helping me move my TV. He dropped it right on the screen and it was broken. 10 secs afterward I was yelling at him, and he said, "It's over! In the past get over it." I just wanted him to say sorry.

 

[Jon]

"It's over! In the past get over it." I just wanted him to say sorry.

People have so many defense mechanisms. It takes a special person to not snap back at the yelling and understand their responsibility in the situation is to apologize and offer to pay for damages without regard for anything you may have said out of anger, or feelings that they were just helping and shouldn't be held responsible for an accident, etc.

 

[MoFlo]

People have so many defense mechanisms. It takes a special person to not snap back at the yelling and understand their responsibility in the situation is to apologize and offer to pay for damages without regard for anything you may have said out of anger, or feelings that they were just helping and shouldn't be held responsible for an accident, etc.

It does?

I know whenever I do something wrong, I apologize immediately..

I mean, it's not that tough..

 

[Jon]

It does?

I know whenever I do something wrong, I apologize immediately..

I mean, it's not that tough..

It's not, but a lot of people would rather point fingers and shift blame.

Heck, what's the insult to apology ratio on the internet? 1000:1 ?

Ok maybe not quite that bad, but here's a tally using google groups search:

205k you're an idiot
510k your an idiot
30k ur an idiot
496k I apologize
59k I appologize
21k I'm truly sorry

Of course there are far more ways to insult someone than to apologize, and while the phrase "I'm sorry" is used very frequently, it's often used just before making an insult. heh

It's interesting that in this sample, people who apologize are ~250x better spellers than flamers.

 

[MoFlo]

It's not, but a lot of people would rather point fingers and shift blame.

Heck, what's the insult to apology ratio on the internet? 1000:1 ?

Ok maybe not quite that bad, but here's a tally using google groups search:

205k you're an idiot
510k your an idiot
30k ur an idiot
496k I apologize
59k I appologize
21k I'm truly sorry

Of course there are far more ways to insult someone than to apologize, and while the phrase "I'm sorry" is used very frequently, it's often used just before making an insult. heh

It's interesting that in this sample, people who apologize are ~250x better spellers than flamers.

Seriously?

You're using statistics of apologies on the internet?

Last I checked, the whole Brown/Z thing had absolutely nothing to do with the internet..

And of course, not many people are going to apologize on the internet..

I really don't get your logic here..

If I did something wrong to a person I knew & was a part of my life personally or professionally, I'd apologize on the spot.

 

[Jon]

Seriously?

You're using statistics of apologies on the internet?

Last I checked, the whole Brown/Z thing had absolutely nothing to do with the internet..

And of course, not many people are going to apologize on the internet..

I really don't get your logic here..

If I did something wrong to a person I knew & was a part of my life personally or professionally, I'd apologize on the spot.

Of course they aren't going to apologize on the internet?

Why is that?

The internet is just a means for two people to communicate. The fact they can do so in semi-anonymity and without worrying about the other person punching them in the face if they piss them off doesn't excuse bad behavior.

All it means is that without social constraints in place people tend towards even more jerkish behavior than they'd display in 1 to 1 relationships. Lord of the Flies Online.

What you might do, or what I might do, doesn't explain what everyone else actually does, Cavatt's friend being a case in point. Heck, I daresay given enough pressure/stress and the right circumstances you wouldn't do what you think you'd do.

I've seen that time and time again.

Don't hold people up to unreasonable standards. People make mistakes. They say things they don't mean. They take things the wrong way. They say things they regret. They over-react to circumstances. etc etc etc. It's never going to stop.

Heck, some people have even flamed and insulted me because I've had the audacity to *gasp* defend someone who can't defend himself.

Go figure.

It's not the same?

No

It's exactly the same.