Zydrunas Ilgauskas - Looking into the slump

[MYoung23]

Yes, but the strange thing here is that usually it's the other stuff that falls off, not the the mid range jumper. Players don't usually forget how to shoot.

If that is the case then it lends toward being in a slump.

Fortunately, he is still doing some other positive things to help the team. At some point, if shooting woes continues, you have to stop expecting him to provide offense and expand Hickson's role.

 

[redscoon]

2) Z and Boobie would play better when West comes back.

The Cavs should be operating under the premise that West is not coming back. It would be incredibly foolish to move forward with any other mindset.

 

[MYoung23]

The Cavs should be operating under the premise that West is not coming back. It would be incredibly foolish to move forward with any other mindset.

It is about time that the Cavaliers look to make moves with the expectation that West wont be back. West, hopefully, has 50 more years of life regardless of basketball to live and be healthy.

 

[Gunther]

This argument sounds more personal than logical. If Z can't hit a jumper with consistency and can't be a force on the offensive glass, his value is diminished drastically. That is exactly what we've seen to this point. He looks like he is running in sand more so than usual and I don't know if I've seen him hit consecutive jumpers all season. It may turn around, but it's bad right now. His performances in the playoffs in recent years haven't been anything to write home about either. I won't even get into his lack of a post game because we all know that is almost entirely gone.

The time to trade him isn't now, but it's coming. His production no longer trumps what his contract could bring at the deadline. The time to win is now. The organization can't let emotions get in the way of a championship.

+4 with Z on the floor in 28 minutes tonight while he spelled Shaq. Who is going to do that if we trade Z?

His shot will come. He has been through these shooting slumps in his career before, and he always comes out of it. Give him time. In the meantime, please recognize his contributions even if they don't show up in the box score. He plays incredibly well with Andy, and this allows JJ to start. Isn't that valuable?

 

[redscoon]

+4 with Z on the floor in 28 minutes tonight while he spelled Shaq. Who is going to do that if we trade Z?

His shot will come. He has been through these shooting slumps in his career before, and he always comes out of it. Give him time. In the meantime, please recognize his contributions even if they don't show up in the box score. He plays incredibly well with Andy, and this allows JJ to start. Isn't that valuable?

You would be looking to get a rotation big in any Z trade. We also have Powe on the mend who will hopefully be able to contribute in a few months. Andy has shown that he can play extended minutes at center in the past so I don't see there being an unfulfillable void once Z moves on.

 

[Cratylus]

Yes, but the strange thing here is that usually it's the other stuff that falls off, not the the mid range jumper. Players don't usually forget how to shoot.

To add to this, it would be one thing if Z were a jump shooter. We might then begin to question if his legs and feet had finally begun to fail him and were causing him to get less lift on his jump which would cause problems with the shot itself. But Z is more of a set shooter, even from 18 feet or farther out. So my hunch is that he is just in a slump. I'm not ready to give up on him yet, but if the slump continues into January it is definitely time to consider trading him for somebody more reliable.

 

[Cratylus]

+4 with Z on the floor in 28 minutes tonight while he spelled Shaq. Who is going to do that if we trade Z?

His shot will come. He has been through these shooting slumps in his career before, and he always comes out of it. Give him time. In the meantime, please recognize his contributions even if they don't show up in the box score. He plays incredibly well with Andy, and this allows JJ to start. Isn't that valuable?

Of course there is SOME value in it, but not $10,000,000+ value, and certainly not more valuable than having a player who would give us more contribution. I'm not willing to give up on Z yet, but that reasoning is a little more like rationalization.

 

[kosis]

Everyone's talking about Z's shot... what about the fact that he's a perpetual turnover whenever he gets the ball. I love the guy but it's downright painful to watch him on the court. He is excruciatingly slow... getting stripped, blocked, or panicked seemingly every time he gets the ball. I'm happier that we got Shaq more than ever. I can't imagine him being our first option in the middle at this point.

 

[-Akronite-]

If Z just starts hitting mid-range jumpers there will be no problem. We never really asked him for more than tip-ins around the rim last season and now we have Shaq.

Give it time, I'm sure he'll be strokin' soon enough... well not soon enough but hopefully soon. Trading him should ultimately end up with him back on the roster so it has to be kept in mind though.

 

[Paddington]

We have to remember that for a long time, Z was our starting C.
This all changed when the Big Diesel came to town.
Z is now having to adjust to coming off the bench with a different rotation of players around him.
Especially when he's paired with Shaq on the floor.
It's difficult for anyone to adjust to playing with Shaq...much less a 7'3" C.

Z just needs time to adjust and settle in to his new role.

 

[Gunther]

You would be looking to get a rotation big in any Z trade. We also have Powe on the mend who will hopefully be able to contribute in a few months. Andy has shown that he can play extended minutes at center in the past so I don't see there being an unfulfillable void once Z moves on.

Neither Powe nor Andy can play center against big lineups (Boston, Orlando, LA, etc). What big are we going to get that can do that? Not to mention, there is no guarantee that Powe will be completely healthy. Even if he is healthy, it will take time to integrate him into the lineup. All of this remains to be seen.

I really think everyone is being reactionary. Z is in a shooting slump that he will eventually come out of.

First, we needed to integrate Shaq into the lineup. That appears to be working. Next, we need to get people used to Z coming off the bench - including Z. This will take time.

Remember that the value of having both Shaq and Z on the team together will pay off in the playoffs - that is the theory that Danny Ferry is banking on. Until then, we are working out the kinks. Sure, there are some lineups and "new" big men that will give both Shaq and Z fits on the pick and roll. We have already seen this. But that is likely the time that we can go small and showcase our depth and versatility.

 

[flamez]

First, we needed to integrate Shaq into the lineup. That appears to be working. Next, we need to get people used to Z coming off the bench - including Z. This will take time.

I don't buy that. The whole idea that Z is struggling because he is coming off the bench is just about the stupidest thing I have heard.

He is still getting his minutes and he is still playing with both Lebron and Mo. He is just missing his shots, plain and simple. Him struggling to shoot the ball the last several games has nothing to do with coming off the bench.

He came off the bench against the Bobcats and he lit them up. The same thing against the Knicks happened. He has struggled agianst the Bulls, Orlando and Miami because the teams are rotating quickly to him. He is simply missing shots.

He also looks considerably slower (that is to be expected though, he is getting old).

We just have to accept the fact that Z is NOT going to produce consistently for us. Relying on him will be a big mistake. We have often seen him choke in the playoffs as well. There is no reason to believe that this year he will step up.

 

[Gunther]

Of course there is SOME value in it, but not $10,000,000+ value, and certainly not more valuable than having a player who would give us more contribution. I'm not willing to give up on Z yet, but that reasoning is a little more like rationalization.

To look at Z's salary at this point is of no value, IMO. You might look at Shaq's pay or LeBron's. Shaq is overpaid, Z is probably overpaid, LeBron is definately underpaid in salary. It has no bearing on the argument at hand. They all signed contracts in good faith and under the rules of the CBA. Danny Ferry assembled this team for one purpose - to win a championship. Dan Gilbert pays the bills - it doesn't matter who is getting paid what amount.

I go back to the fact that this team was built to be successfull in the playoffs - period. At that time, we will need both Shaq and Z - as well as JJ, Andy and everyone else. It is Ferry's vision at stake - and I for one think he has it right.

Again, it will take time to gel. It is happening a little more every game. We need to have patience as fans.

 

[Trill Cosby]

Z is just getting adjusted to coming off of the bench, he'll be fine.

 

[bigfigga12]

If we're not getting a quality big back, we shouldn't trade Z. For Bosh, yes, for West, yes, for Amare, yes. But not for Stephen Jackson. Moon is starting to play well now that he is more accustomed to his role, and Parker and Boobie are playing well also. If we get Delonte back, our 1-3 will be very solid. Z still adds a big body in the paint that can stretch the floor. Notice that he's not bricking wide open shots all the time, the defense is still flying out to him to get a hand in his face. I'd like to see him pump fake once in a while when his shot is not falling and take a dribble in to get closer or make a pass to someone cutting to the hoop.

I don't think we have to include Z to get Jackson. Wally has said in post New York game interviews that the Cavs own his rights and he would have nothing against the team using his rights and applying them to a sign and trade ala Van Horn a few years back. I know Wally made almost 13 million last year, but I think the Cavs can use a fairly large percentage of his last year contract in trade.

If this is so, and all Golden State is looking for is salary cap relief, we may be able to get Jackson for basically nothing or maybe a pick. If we were able to hold on to Z, West, Gibson, and J.J and be able to get S Jax for Wally's expiring, a pick and say Darnell Jackson... this deal needs consummated like yesterday. If this were to happen and it gave us two solid shooting guards in S Jax and Parker, I'd look into trading with Memphis, an even swap in one head case for another. ( Iverson for West ) Memphis is not going to get much for Iverson, West is obviously having issues. With playing Gay and Mayo who are huge defensive liabilities, West would be just what the doctor ordered for them with the ability to bring a guard off the bench who can defend and he's young to boot. For the Cavs, it would give them a backup point who is a scorer and create his own shot, which the Cavs could use as a go to man off the bench. People forget Iverson averaged 25 points a game and almost 7 assists only a few years back with the Nuggets. I see no reason why he can't be the Jason Terry of the Cavs. He can have free reign to score when he comes in, being the first option on a championship second unit instead of a 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th scoring option as the starter. Imagine the Cavs lineup when they were to go small at the end of the game with Mo at PG, Iverson at Sg or vice versa, S Jax at Sf, Bron at Pf, and Andy at C. Truly sick.