Zydrunas Ilgauskas - Looking into the slump

[Jon]

Is this the Official Let's Panic About Z thread?!? Or did Karma reallly think he could circumvent that somehow?

Like I say every year, Z typically starts slow ... and having to come in cold (give or take a heat pack) doesn't help. Revisit after 20 games ...

 

[Rimage]

Its really early, so there is no reason to make up your mind about Z or anything else, but this is the most vunerable I have seen Z's position on this team. If Hickson continues to improve and if Powe gets back and healthy, Z is going to very expendable. But again, it is so early, Z could very well get his stroke back, figure out his role on the bench and all will be well.

 

[tino105]

i think he is just having a hard time adjusting to coming off the bench imo


but he will come around its Z

 

[Karma]

This dude has forever been an underrated team defender. He is very effective on the show, double teams well and looks to box out. That hasn't changed one bit, but to me it stands out so much more compared with O'Neal. Shaq is solid one on one defender due to his physique. Z has the length to bother opponents but also works for his team mates much more effectively. Actually Z is actually more agile at changing direction then Shaq which is probably why Coach Brown doesn't get Shaq to do the show on the picks. Straight line speed is another matter.

Going off track a little, but my main point is that despite his obvious shooting woes he is still giving this team value. There are a few members here who either don't like him, or just like the flashy play, or the box score kids, who just don't look at the whole picture. We all agree he needs to start knocking down shots, but whilst they are not dropping I was hoping RealCavsFans could see a bigger picture.

 

[AvonCavsFan]

Some of us ARE seeing the big picture. We are not getting emotionally tied to a player that has lost it. Z is my 2nd favorite player (behind Delonte) on the team. So I would love to be wrong here and see Z turn the clock back 2 years. Even Hollinger has mentioned it multiple times about how surprising it is that Z seems to have lost it so fast, and Hollinger is one of the better unbiased player analysts, one who was BIG on the Cavs last year.

You are bringing up how good Z is at showing and getting back, I am not sure which Z you are watching, but it isn't this years version (or last years in fact). He gets poor rebounding position which has lead to some fouls, he has turned the ball over a ton, he is missing ALL of his shots, and he even has had multiple three second violations that have cost us points. And for some odd reason he feels he HAS to shoot the ball as soon as it hits his hands. I cringe when the ball goes to Z right now, because I see a turnover or a missed shot happening and not much else. The fact we are +4 when he was in the game, speaks to how good the other 4 players are on the court.

Andy could easily back up the 4 and 5 spots, with Lebron sprinkled in a bit at the 4. Andy played less than 20 minutes last night, he has been playing very very well and all of a sudden he gets his minutes yanked around?

We don't have any cap space, and our picks are low....the ONLY way to get more young talent is to trade our big expiring contracts. Z is one of those, so hopefully Ferry doesn't run this team based on his friendship with Z.

And when I say we need to trade Z, I don't mean yesterday, I mean before the deadline. If he gets bought out and comes back, hopefully MB won't feel obligated to play him 20+ minutes.

 

[APW2914]

I think the overall consensus is that Z is in a shooting slump. Let him work through it, he is getting accustomed to coming off the bench and he is still contributing on the defensive end. His value appreciates as we get closer and closer to the deadline. And when the trade deadline comes around, we will trade him for West or Jamison and then he will be bought out and come back and win a championship. End of story.

 

[Ev0710]

Looking to trade Z and his expiring deal for somebody that can contribute to the Cavs this year and for years to come would be the definition of looking big picture wouldn't it? I like Z and I would love nothing more than for him to win a ring. But ignoring that his game has declined to the point where defenses are going to start sagging off of him, in my mind, is not beneficial to the TEAM. Especially since Andy can play the 5, Powe will be coming back and we could really pick up some great players with Z's contract.

 

[redscoon]

Neither Powe nor Andy can play center against big lineups (Boston, Orlando, LA, etc).

I'm assuming you watched the ECF and also watched the Lakers manhandle us in the paint in our two meetings last year. Z doesn't match up against those teams either, so I don't see your logic.

 

[Damage]

As I said in the game day thread, Z's slump is the least of my worries with him. He has been and always will be a prolific shooting Big Man. I'm concerned with everything else. His defensive awareness isn't close to what it use to be, his inside game is non-existent, and whatever muscle mass he had is gone.

I know the shots will start falling. They have to, as he's too good of a shooter. But he's becoming a liability on defense now. I have seen far too often Z's inability to rotate quick enough. Time is not on his side.

As I said, I don't want to trade him now and would like to wait until the 1st quarter of the season is over to truly evaluate where this team is, individually and collectively.

 

[Giambiwannabe7]

I think MB's recent admission that the Twin Towers experiment is all but over, save for a few special situations like ORL going with two C's at once, is a sign that he realizes not only is the duo too slow on D, but that it gets Z way out of his comfort zone. If Z gets back to playing as the only true C on our side of the ball, he will begin to feel more comfortable in his role. Yes, he stills needs to figure out how to adjust properly to coming off the bench, but I'm feeling decent about that adjustment eventually working itself out. I'm pretty sure Z's shot will come around, and with Shaq out of the game, he can go back to getting a groove inside, as well, with all his tip ins and ability to draw fouls.

Shaq has made the whole team go through an adjustment period, Z is no different. Really, Z is the guy who has been affected the most in all of this. That he has not fully adjusted after 9games isn't exactly shocking stuff here. 20 games will be a much better sample size to begin drawing conclusions from. He's not even halfway to that point yet and the rest of the team is just now beginning to show it's getting comfortable, as well.

 

[Damage]

This dude has forever been an underrated team defender. He is very effective on the show, double teams well and looks to box out. That hasn't changed one bit, but to me it stands out so much more compared with O'Neal. Shaq is solid one on one defender due to his physique. Z has the length to bother opponents but also works for his team mates much more effectively. Actually Z is actually more agile at changing direction then Shaq which is probably why Coach Brown doesn't get Shaq to do the show on the picks. Straight line speed is another matter.

Going off track a little, but my main point is that despite his obvious shooting woes he is still giving this team value. There are a few members here who either don't like him, or just like the flashy play, or the box score kids, who just don't look at the whole picture. We all agree he needs to start knocking down shots, but whilst they are not dropping I was hoping RealCavsFans could see a bigger picture.

And there is one member on her who will defend him until the death. I give you props in your attempts to defend Z, no matter what, but to say his defense is adding to the team value is not accurate. He's too slow rotating over. His big advantage is that he's 7'3 and has long arms. That alone gives him 5-8 boards per.

 

[DougHeil]

I'm assuming you watched the ECF and also watched the Lakers manhandle us in the paint in our two meetings last year. Z doesn't match up against those teams either, so I don't see your logic.

You are missing the entire point of why we got Shaq in the first place. Why do you think the Cavs have done so well the last years if not because of a HUGE guy in the middle? Z has been crucial to the success we have had. Shaq was brought in to "compliment" Z. They bring two totally different problems to other teams. Shaq brings flexibility to our rotation which has to include Z. Shaq cannot play 35 to 40 minutes anymore, nor would we want him to as when playoff time gets here Shaq wouldn't have anything left. What we do without Z against Orlando or Boston who have bigs out the yeng-yang?? It's just not enough to expect Shaq and Andy and Powe when available and JJ to man the middle when you have teams out there with bigs who play as brutus and other bigs who fly up and down the floor. We have to be flexible in all aspects of each game to counter what it is the opposing team is trying to do at any given time.

Yeah sure; I get that Z has started slow this year. So what? Do we really expect our Cavs to play at peak performance this early in the year? Remember we have MANY new players, including JJ who is just as new as Parker or Moon or Shaq. JJ is new because he's in the main rotation now and we are getting acquanted just like with the others. It's a new game this year. Z isn't hitting his shots, but Z is also in a brand new field other than what he's been use to for eleven years. Give him some slack. Relax about it.

I'm frankly astounded about how well the Cavs are doing THIS EARLY. Other teams have some new players, but no changes were quite as wholesale as the Cav's changes were. The fact we have won 6 of the last seven games is amazing. We are basically doing this without major contributions from TWO DAMN STARTERS of last year....... Delonte and Z. Just WOW.

Orlando was flabbergasted as to how to defend us. They looked totally lost. Lewis might have made a difference, but certainly not enough for them to win that game.. no way. Sometimes we are going to have to use both Z and Shaq together on the floor. The game will dictate that. It's common sense stuff. Yeah sure, MB stated he is experimenting, but what seems to be lost about what he actually said is also the fact the Cavs will do what they NEED TO DO each game. Circumstances dictate this and I am finally seeing Mike Brown understanding that. Kudos to him.

This talk of Z losing it, etc, is just hyperbole. Z is important now just as he has been for many years.

 

[BigErieCavsFan]

It's not that hard to understand why he struggles coming off the bench. This is a guy who has had a set routine to deal with his bionic feet for years, which has been completely disrupted. He always ices his feet before the games, than warms up and stretched out for tip-off. When he comes off the bench, his feet aren't iced and his legs aren't as loose, which for an aging center who's feet are held together with rubber bands is devastating. I don't believe it's a mental thing for him. The routine that's treated him well all these years doesn't work when he has to sit down awhile before playing. Couple that with his aging and complete lack of athleticism, well you start shooting 30% and lose confidence in your all-around game.

A little bit of a contradiction there saying that it isn't a mental thing, but he's losing confidence. I quoted you, because of the word confidence. There are a ton of things that I think are effecting Z's confidence and I wouldn't doubt that one of the biggest is that he realizes his contract is finally beginning to be worth more than his talent...

 

[SanduskyCav]

I think some of you guys are blind with your love for Z. Big men can decline fast, especially someone who it 7'3 and 34 years old. This is not a slump, this is the case where an NBA big man has lost it. Z didn't look good near the end of last year and he looks even worse now. Every asset of his game right now looks pitiful. I would understand if it's just his shot, but his defense is horrible, his rebounding is horrible and he's to slow to roll off a screen. Even when he does get the ball with his back to the basket in the post he isn't strong enough to even get the ball near the rim. I haven't once seen him get it in the post and not get fouled or get it stripped from him. He's a liability on the floor at all times.

I'm not saying if we trade for Z I don't want him back, because the one valuable thing he does do is let Shaq rest and that's pretty important to me. So if we can trade him and get another solid player or two to give us more depth then resign him after a buyout I would love to have Z back so he can compete for a championship. But right now, Z isn't even close to worth his $11.5 million and that's what upsets me the most. However if we can turn his $11.5 mil into 2 players plus Z and resign him for the vet min I wouldn't mind it at all.

 

[sjeppe]

The cavs have finally as a team learned what they need to do to be effective on Offense, while Z still hasnt learned his role, and is in a slump with his shot. Zs shot has nothing to do with jumping or getting old, its a set shot that he can probably hit till he is 50. Once he gets adjusted he will be fine. His game does not depend on athleticism, he uses his height. He hasnt lost his height and will be fine ..