Zydrunas Ilgauskas - Looking into the slump

[Gunther]

I don't buy that. The whole idea that Z is struggling because he is coming off the bench is just about the stupidest thing I have heard.

He is still getting his minutes and he is still playing with both Lebron and Mo. He is just missing his shots, plain and simple. Him struggling to shoot the ball the last several games has nothing to do with coming off the bench.

He came off the bench against the Bobcats and he lit them up. The same thing against the Knicks happened. He has struggled agianst the Bulls, Orlando and Miami because the teams are rotating quickly to him. He is simply missing shots.

He also looks considerably slower (that is to be expected though, he is getting old).

We just have to accept the fact that Z is NOT going to produce consistently for us. Relying on him will be a big mistake. We have often seen him choke in the playoffs as well. There is no reason to believe that this year he will step up.

There is no need to throw words like "stupid" around. If you disagree with me, fine. No skin off my back. But no need to call me stupid. I've been watching basketball for 35 years. I don't know it all by any means, but I am definately not stupid.

You would think that we lost the last two games the way some of you are overreacting.

There are certain lineups that we will encounter where Z and Shaq will not work. This will likely not be true as we move through the playoffs. I am looking longterm here, not some single-game performance early in the season against Charlotte or New York.

 

[flamez]

There is no need to throw words like "stupid" around. If you disagree with me, fine. No skin off my back. But no need to call me stupid. I've been watching basketball for 35 years. I don't know it all by any means, but I am definately not stupid.

You would think that we lost the last two games the way some of you are overreacting.

There are certain lineups that we will encounter where Z and Shaq will not work. This will likely not be true as we move through the playoffs. I am looking longterm here, not some single-game performance early in the season against Charlotte or New York.

I'm not calling you stupid. I'm calling the logic that Z is struggling because he is coming off the bench stupid. Whether it's you or any other person that idea is pretty dumb, IMO.

He shot well against the Bobcats and Knicks. He has shot poorly in the other games. It's that simple. He is missing shots. Opposing teams are rotating out to him much quicker and he is missing.

I think the only time the shaq and Z lineup will be effective will be when we play the lakers. Bynum is not a jump shooter so Shaq can stay inside with him.
Gasol can hit that 12-15 footer consistently but he doesn't take many of those. That is not his game. Besides, the one time we played them last year WITH Z, he did a good job defending Gasol ( I think gasol went 6-13).

If Z is out there with Shaq and you want them to guard the tandems of Sheed/Kg, Bosh/Barg, then you're going to get killed.

 

[PIP]

Well, I'm not gonna sugarcoat it just cause he's the "big fella"..

Guy played roughly 24 minutes in each of the last two games and he hasn't hit a shot.. Literally flew with this team to Florida and contributed about as much as Delonte did offensively...

What's worse is the horrible fouls he's picking up... The fumbling around of the ball.. Can't believe for the life of me why they gave Mo four TO's and Z only one when it was more than obvious that Z was the one turning it over.. That's on top of the three TO's he supplied us with last night..

The Cavs are winning despite his awful play.. You couple the fact that we haven't had Delonte or Z in the last two games and it makes these wins even more impressive...

 

[P_Han2]

Well, I'm not gonna sugarcoat it just cause he's the "big fella"..

Guy played roughly 24 minutes in each of the last two games and he hasn't hit a shot.. Literally flew with this team to Florida and contributed about as much as Delonte did offensively...

What's worse is the horrible fouls he's picking up... The fumbling around of the ball.. Can't believe for the life of me why they gave Mo four TO's and Z only one when it was more than obvious that Z was the one turning it over.. That's on top of the three TO's he supplied us with last night..

The Cavs are winning despite his awful play.. You couple the fact that we haven't had Delonte or Z in the last two games and it makes these wins even more impressive...

mmmm victory melons..

I never thought it was physically possible but Z's vertical has declined from 1 inch last year to .24739 inches this year. It's sad to watch considering he is such an icon in this franchise and a great person in the city. I just hope he finds his J otherwise hello Captain Jack

 

[Gunther]

Well, I'm not gonna sugarcoat it just cause he's the "big fella"..

Guy played roughly 24 minutes in each of the last two games and he hasn't hit a shot.. Literally flew with this team to Florida and contributed about as much as Delonte did offensively...

What's worse is the horrible fouls he's picking up... The fumbling around of the ball.. Can't believe for the life of me why they gave Mo four TO's and Z only one when it was more than obvious that Z was the one turning it over.. That's on top of the three TO's he supplied us with last night..

The Cavs are winning despite his awful play.. You couple the fact that we haven't had Delonte or Z in the last two games and it makes these wins even more impressive...

As far as the fouls are concerned - that tends to happen when you play against Dwyane Wade. Shaq had 5 also. Parker had 4. Andy had 4.

And I disagree that "the Cavs are winning despite his awful play". I have already named my reasons, so no reason to repeat myself.

 

[PIP]

Gunther,

You're all worked up.. You also have a picture of Z standing at center court as your avatar :chuckles:

 

[MistaDobalina]

It's not that hard to understand why he struggles coming off the bench. This is a guy who has had a set routine to deal with his bionic feet for years, which has been completely disrupted. He always ices his feet before the games, than warms up and stretched out for tip-off. When he comes off the bench, his feet aren't iced and his legs aren't as loose, which for an aging center who's feet are held together with rubber bands is devastating. I don't believe it's a mental thing for him. The routine that's treated him well all these years doesn't work when he has to sit down awhile before playing. Couple that with his aging and complete lack of athleticism, well you start shooting 30% and lose confidence in your all-around game.

 

[Otsego Mar]

 

[PIP]

Looks like Z is all about "getting his"

No four play..Joel is unimpressed...

 

[Gunther]

Gunther,

You're all worked up.. You also have a picture of Z standing at center court as your avatar :chuckles:

I will admit that I feel emotionally about this. Z means a lot to this franchise and to me personally as a fan. I would like nothing better than to see Z get a ring this season - probably his last, IMO. But in the end, I will trust the plan that Ferry has put together. I think he has it right. And I think so from a logic standpoint, not an emotional one.

I don't hold it against anyone who disagrees with me. This isn't personal.

I'm a Cavs fan first and a Z fan second. I rooted for the Cavs before we drafted Z and I will do so after he is gone. If Ferry sees fit to trade Z, then so be it. But I don't think it is a good idea to throw him under the bus for a few bad games. He'll come around.

 

[Otsego Mar]

I'm very appreciative of what Z means to this city and team, and what he's done over the years. But I'm pretty sure his ship has sailed....and coming off the bench just makes matters worse I guess. This guy NEEDS to be used at the deadline for a trade......no I take that back. He doesn't NEED to be used....but you would have to think that with the way the economy is and with certain teams struggling (and with Z's $11.5 mil expiring contract).....it's a sure-fire bet that there will be a player or 2 much better and much younger than Z that could really help our championship run. I hope Z could be bought out and get himself back on our team...I really do. But lets face it.....he's done.

 

[Andrew]

Dude's in a slump. All players go into slumps, I agree with the OP and the trade scenarios are a little too soon.

This man is valuable to this team's success.

 

[Pioneer10]

At some point he's going to have to hit that outside shot at somewhat a reasonable rate. It doesn't matter how smart a player Z is: he no longer can post up, he's not a high post type of a guy, and he's doesn't have the foot speed to dive to the basket off the pick and roll like AV. While teams currently are respecting his shot despite his misses, if he doesn't break out of it then you can forget the his defender sticking with him at all and teams will collapse on Lebron.

Note this doesn't mean that Z has to shoot particularly well or shoot as well as he did in his past: he just can't miss 12 jumpers in a row like he has been.

 

[Spencer Hawes]

It's not that hard to understand why he struggles coming off the bench. This is a guy who has had a set routine to deal with his bionic feet for years, which has been completely disrupted. He always ices his feet before the games, than warms up and stretched out for tip-off. When he comes off the bench, his feet aren't iced and his legs aren't as loose, which for an aging center who's feet are held together with rubber bands is devastating. I don't believe it's a mental thing for him. The routine that's treated him well all these years doesn't work when he has to sit down awhile before playing. Couple that with his aging and complete lack of athleticism, well you start shooting 30% and lose confidence in your all-around game.

I don't buy that at all. It's not like he's relying on his vertical for his jump shot.

 

[THamiltonIsGod]

Still way too early to write off Z but I am concerned that the reason for his shooting woes might be his inability to adjust to coming off the bench. He's definately a rythym shooter and a lot of guys have a problem coming into a game cold and finding a rythym.

I've had enough of the Z/Shaq frontcourt though, that needs to go. I don't know what Mike Brown expects from it, even if it's adequate against mediocre teams in the regular season it will absolutely not work in the playoffs.