Zydrunas Ilgauskas - Looking into the slump

[SanduskyCav]

Get a clue.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
This isn't the CYO, this is the NBA.

Ask Allen Iverson...4X scoring champion and former league MVP how easy it is to come off the bench when you're used to starting.

Allen Iverson is shooting 58% from the feild in the three games he has played. Z is shooting 32%.

 

[ChicagoCavFan]

A few things are certain in life....

Death

Taxes

Karma having Z's back

Although, I heart Z too. The Lithuanian in me. I do not mean that sexually.

 

[Paddington]

Allen Iverson is shooting 58% from the feild in the three games he has played. Z is shooting 32%.

Basing stats on 3 games....that's a great statistical sample there.
And if he's doing so well...why is he at home and not with the Grizzlies?
Hmmmm...BECAUSE HE DOESN'T LIKE COMING OFF THE BENCH!!!!!!

 

[Karma]

For those of you complaining about the turnovers he is averaging 1 turnover per 34 minutes. He only had 3 turnovers in the first 8 games. So when you start throwing stones, be sure to have some facts straight first.

So like I keep saying Zydrunas is helping this team in other areas just like Delonte (when he plays) is despite both of their dismal shooting.

 

[The Oi]

If there is anything of value available at the trade dead-line, Z absolutely, positively must be moved.

Hard shows and picks are not enough to justify the wasted minutes Z gives out there. Darnell Jackson and Andy Varejao could give us those, and more and more it appears that JJ can too.

What the Cavs need is another guy who can score 15+ppg and Z needs to be flipped into that if possible.

 

[SanduskyCav]

Basing stats on 3 games....that's a great statistical sample there.
And if he's doing so well...why is he at home and not with the Grizzlies?
Hmmmm...BECAUSE HE DOESN'T LIKE COMING OFF THE BENCH!!!!!!

I know he doesn't like coming off the bench, what I was saying is that it didn't effect his shooting yet this year....

Z has already stated in an interview that he was was beginning to enjoy coming off the bench so what's the problem? Z is washed up. All he is here for is to spread the floor for LeBron and be a big body when Shaq is out of the lineup. But what happens if he doesn't start sinking his shots? Will people even contest him? If they stop doing that, then he doesn't spread the floor anymore and just becomes a body on the floor which is being paid $11.5mil. I think that can be replaced.

 

[AvonCavsFan]

Why is it for some of you that when people don't agree with you THEY are the uninformed? Or THEY don't understand basketball?

Well I hate to tell you this, but most of us DO understand basketball and know what we SEE. Hiding behind the plus minus is just dumb. For one the sample size is way to small and for another Z has been lucky enough to be on the court for some of Mo's hot shooting streaks (again why the sample size is not large enough). It is NOT because of Z that we are positive when he plays.

I SEE a player that has declined, and individual player barometers AGREE with this:

Which leads me to believe that our positive plus minus while he is in the game is IN SPITE of him, not BECAUSE of him.

With Z it is not just his shot, which I do expect to improve. It is the rest of his game that has gone down hill. And man the NBA needs new official scorers if Z is only averaging one turnover per 34 minutes, so I am guessing when he drops the passes, the turnover has been going to the passer???

 

[flamez]

Yeah it seems like the passers have been getting turnovers while it's Z who keeps getting the ball stripped.

Z is a shooter and if he is not making those open looks then he is worthless, IMO. We always criticize Gibson when he shoots bad because that is the only thing he can do out there.
Z is essentially the same, I don't see him contributing in any other way right. I don't care what that plus-minus says, he is not helping us right now.

I'm hoping it's just a shooting slump and he snaps out of it. I mean we have been good offensively without him, imagine if he starts shooting the ball well. We will be even more potent offensively, pretty scary.

 

[PIP]

Z is 6 fouls right now... That's it..

The level of defense he is playing does not warrant the time he's getting... The threat of being able to knock down a midrage shot is all that he has right now...He's away from the basket (especially when in there with Shaq) so he's not getting any offensive boards... You couple that with the fact that he hasn't hit a shot in a couple of games and you're starting to see a player that is causing more harm than good at the moment...

Furthermore, thinking long term and down the road, there's jsut no way this guy can see court time when we play a team like Boston and they give you the Sheed/KG look...Or if the Lakers go with a Gasol/Odom combo and plany Bynum on the bench...

Z will be a liability...If he's not already...

 

[PIP]

Why is it for some of you that when people don't agree with you THEY are the uninformed? Or THEY don't understand basketball?

Well I hate to tell you this, but most of us DO understand basketball and know what we SEE. Hiding behind the plus minus is just dumb. For one the sample size is way to small and for another Z has been lucky enough to be on the court for some of Mo's hot shooting streaks (again why the sample size is not large enough). It is NOT because of Z that we are positive when he plays.

I SEE a player that has declined, and individual player barometers AGREE with this:

Which leads me to believe that our positive plus minus while he is in the game is IN SPITE of him, not BECAUSE of him.

With Z it is not just his shot, which I do expect to improve. It is the rest of his game that has gone down hill. And man the NBA needs new official scorers if Z is only averaging one turnover per 34 minutes, so I am guessing when he drops the passes, the turnover has been going to the passer???

Well, Avon, I hope that was worth it for you... You just shot one off into the Z Army camp...

A couple prominent members will not be pleased.. Stay strong, brother...

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[Gunther]

If there is anything of value available at the trade dead-line, Z absolutely, positively must be moved.

Hard shows and picks are not enough to justify the wasted minutes Z gives out there. Darnell Jackson and Andy Varejao could give us those, and more and more it appears that JJ can too.

What the Cavs need is another guy who can score 15+ppg and Z needs to be flipped into that if possible.

Jigo, do you really believe that Darnell Jackson or JJ can play backup center for us?

I agree that Andy would be able to handle many of the centers in the league competently, but not against Orlando, LA, Portland, and Boston - any of which we may see in the playoffs. He simply does not play big enough at this point in his career.

When Shaq is in foul trouble, do you want to trust any of these three with the center duties? Against certain lineups, Andy would work OK, but Darnell and JJ? No way.

And what if Shaq gets hurt? Then we're screwed without Z. Going small will not work against teams with elite bigs over the long run. Even though I admit that Z is not the inside presence that he once was, at least he gives us length and experience. I just don't see giving up on a big man in this era so easily when they are so rare.

If Z's shooting touch comes around, like I believe it will, then I have a feeling many of you will change your minds.

 

[NarlCavs]

I like Z but he hasn't been playing well. Still doesn't mean he's not needed or won't have any type of valuable role here this season.

Right now Z is a backup C. He's playing 22 minutes a game which will be approx. what he'll play all season. Just the size, presence and proven scoring ability that opponents do have to defend and pay attention to give him value. I don't expect some dominating presence with huge production given this current role.
I do expect Z's shot to eventually start falling more consistently. He's still getting about 6 rebounds and a block a game. When that shot does start falling we'll have a backup C bringing about 9 points and 6 rebounds game while helping to spread the floor, bringing another big body and inside presence along with 6 fouls, and someone who can help limit Shaq's minutes all season to help keep him fresh while still providing a true C on the court.

Z isn't the player he was and is fading. He still has value and will be needed for any possible championship run. Doesn't mean I have any problem with him being traded in the right deal (which would not be one for Stephen Jackson).

 

[CleveRocks]

So Avon, is your argument to fire Z? exactly what is your plan.

My point which you missed entirely, is that the Z haters are making a lot of nose without thinking. Z has had more than one game where he hit 0%. This is a problem, no doubt. But your argument that he has simply declined is conveniently short of anything like analysis. If you are a student of the game, then expain what exactly has declined. (which I think is his jumper, which I think is because his back is still sore)

I think he is still rebounding pretty well, I think he is still playing decent D in the context of the team Defensive schema, and I think he works better with Lebron and Mo because he has played with them a while, and the plus minus you say I am hiding behind, which is a measure of his impact on the team, bears this out..

You seem to have this fantasy that we are going to trade Z and somehow address some other need, and this is just silly. If Z is as washed up as you say he is, then all we are going to get back in trade is some overpayed under behaved bench disrupting player. Why in Sam Hill would we do that? I happen to think that Z is a terrific value as our third best center and as our third best power forward (assuming we are not playing Lebron at the 4). Is Z as good as Adonal Foyle? because that is the third best center on the Orlando squad. Or how about Sheldon Williams of Celtics fame, or maybe Jamaal Magliore of the Heat?

No, you want to trade Z for Stephen Jackson? Really? And you honestly think that will address our troubles?

I just don't see how you can honestly believe that. I think you are shouting out that Z is declining with age (not a news flash) as if the sky is falling and by god something needs to be done about it. But there is no meat on those bones. Z is declining. The organization acknowledged that with the O'Niel trade and they put Z in a role where he will contribute more than Lorenzen Wright. But that has zero to do with our unsteady play, it has zero to do with the lack of defensive intensity in the early season, it has zero to do with our over use of LeIso, or the team reversion to unbalanced jumpshots when they feel it is too tiring to make the good pass. It is much ado about nothing.

 

[7foot3]

If there is anything of value available at the trade dead-line, Z absolutely, positively must be moved.

Hard shows and picks are not enough to justify the wasted minutes Z gives out there. Darnell Jackson and Andy Varejao could give us those, and more and more it appears that JJ can too.

What the Cavs need is another guy who can score 15+ppg and Z needs to be flipped into that if possible.

I'm not sure why people seem to think Darnell Jackson is an answer. Guy is an end of the bench player. JJ has been terrible on hard shows and screens. And where are you going to find the shots for a15+ ppg player? Especially if West can come back. Unless the Cavs can get a bonafide all-star, they need someone who can fit his role on this team well. Adding a chucker who needs the ball isn't that.

And the idea that the sample small is too small to use +/-, but not PER. How does that make sense? And you say its not just his shot, but the rest of his game thats gone downhill. His rebound rate is down a hair, his block rate is the same, and his DRtg is the same, when we compare to last year. The difference is his efg%. His shot is not falling, otherwise his game is pretty similar to last year.

 

[futuristxen]

I like Z a lot as a player, but he gives us nothing that we really need to win a championship. Is this season about winning a title, or is it about everyone feeling good about themselves? Last year we had fun, played games...and didn't even make the finals.

If our goal is to win a championship, Z needs to be flipped for that number 2 scorer that will step up in the playoffs and take pressure off of Mo and Lebron. Someone who creates their own shot, can defend big 2 guards or stretch 4s, and makes this team special.

We made a huge mistake last season not moving Wally Z's contract, I just hope we're not repeating that same mistake.

Do you think RC Buford won titles in San Antonio by playing old favorites? Look what he did with Bruce Bowen this year. This is a business, it's about winning, and Z only helps us win as a tradeable commodity this year. If he comes back, great, that's a bonus. But we can do better than what he brings.