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A Closer Look at Derrick Williams

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Thats great and all, but there isn't a SF prospect in this draft worth taking instead of Kyrie.

And can we stop acting like the PG spot was actuallY good? Baron has no future here, and Ramon is a backup at best. It was not a "bright spot."

it certainly was compared to other needs. The basis that Irving should be drafted as a need doesnt hold water and doesnt apply to the draft.

Chris Grant has consistently stated he will draft best player available over need.

irving is either the bpa on his own merits or Williams is. position is not a factor.

but i would start touting Irvings value as a point guard too if I was a big fan of his and feared there was a better player available at a different position who might threaten that.
 
If Grant is really gonna throw a monkey wrench in the draft, I would anticipate him taking Biyombo at #1.
 
The NBA small forward is critical to transition defense. Help defense and setting up the perimeter defense.

So you want us to take Chris Singleton at 1?
 
It's harder to find a PG that can actually run a team, than finding a 20 pt scorer. Plus with Byron here, I'm sure he'll get the most out of Irving as a point guard. Another thing is that we have no long-term options at the PG spot, currently on our roster. The fact that we can get our PG and a Center (Kanter or Jonas) this year and fill out our wings or PF's next year in the draft, is pretty amazing.

Pretty much I would take Irving over Williams every time. That doesn't mean I don't like Williams, but Irving has potential to run our offense and still be a threat to score. You can't pass that up.
 
So you want us to take Chris Singleton at 1?

no I said NEED is NOT a factor.. really.. a guy said that we have to draft irving because point guard is a need. I was debating that "need" showing it for what it was.
NEEd is not a factor
NEED is not a factor
need is not a factor
need is not a factor
whats Tornicade saying?
Need is not a factor
Is he saying we need this?
No, Need is not a factor
Perhaps we can twist it to say he is saying this?
Nop NEED is not a factor

well torn why did you say all this
Hmm maybe cause WHOWEARE keeps saying NEED is a factor

but why would we draft Williams

Williams dazzled the Cavs with his athleticism during a private workout last week. If the Cavs view Knight as comparable to Irving, they could select Williams first and hope Knight is still available with the fourth pick.

http://www.ohio.com/sports/cavs/124149114.html

so in the scenario need is a factor it can be addressed after the first pick but not with the first pick
 
no I said NEED is NOT a factor.. really.. a guy said that we have to draft irving because point guard is a need. I was debating that "need" showing it for what it was.
NEEd is not a factor
NEED is not a factor
need is not a factor
need is not a factor
whats Tornicade saying?
Need is not a factor
Is he saying we need this?
No, Need is not a factor
Perhaps we can twist it to say he is saying this?
Nop NEED is not a factor

well torn why did you say all this
Hmm maybe cause WHOWEARE keeps saying NEED is a factor

but why would we draft Williams

Williams dazzled the Cavs with his athleticism during a private workout last week. If the Cavs view Knight as comparable to Irving, they could select Williams first and hope Knight is still available with the fourth pick.

http://www.ohio.com/sports/cavs/124149114.html

so in the scenario need is a factor it can be addressed after the first pick but not with the first pick

No -- that's not what I was saying.

What I said was, IF both Irving and Williams are EQUAL as BPA in terms of potential and talent, then a PG is always more important than a PF.

Not to mention, Sessions is gone, Davis is nothing more than a trade chip awaiting expiration, and a PG is arguably the most important component for a young rebuilding team.

However, that said, Irving is still BPA without question. In other words, my point is that no matter how you look at it, Irving is the #1 pick without question.

But that's probably a bit too much nuance for you Tornado.
 
Look, I agree that need is not a factor. But if defensive ability at the SF spot is something you/we value, then I don't see anyone better than Chris Singleton in this draft to fit that bill.

FTR: AFAIC, our team "needs" EVERYTHING. Every starting position and every back-up position. EVERYTHING. But that doesn't mean that all positions are equal. If I was looking at the NFL draft and seeing a stud QB and a stud C available, and my team needs both, I'd take the QB 100 times out of 100. If I was looking at a baseball draft and seeing a stud SS and a stud 1bman available, I'd take the SS 100 times out of 100.

I think you and I agree here: The only question is: Who is the best prospect in this draft? Period. End of story. Take him at 1. I think it's Kyrie Irving. If you disagree, then fine, but it has nothing to do with who will provide the best defense at the SF position or how valuable defense at the SF position is in the NBA.
 
No -- that's not what I was saying.

What I said was, IF both Irving and Williams are EQUAL as BPA in terms of potential and talent, then a PG is always more important than a PF.

Not to mention, Sessions is gone, Davis is nothing more than a trade chip awaiting expiration, and a PG is arguably the most important component for a young rebuilding team.

However, that said, Irving is still BPA without question. In other words, my point is that no matter how you look at it, Irving is the #1 pick without question.

But that's probably a bit too much nuance for you Tornado.

If brandon knight has a succesful workout against th cavs dont be surprised to see williams going one.

Theres three potentially 4 solid point guards going tino this draft its the one thing this draft is actually strong in.

Williams can be a goto scorer in a team that shares the ball. The last thing you want is your goto scorer to be the guy who sets the ball into motion. the game is won in the paint.
 
We drafted quite possibly the best SF to ever play the game and didn't win.

I want Irving because I want a guy who will touch the ball on every possession and who will give the ball to his teammates in the position that they'll be most likely to hit the shot. I also want him because I want a guy who won't be a black hole on offense, but can give you a lot of points if his name is called upon.
 
If brandon knight has a succesful workout against th cavs dont be surprised to see williams going one.

Theres three potentially 4 solid point guards going tino this draft its the one thing this draft is actually strong in.

Williams can be a goto scorer in a team that shares the ball. The last thing you want is your goto scorer to be the guy who sets the ball into motion. the game is won in the paint.

I'm so convinced that we are taking Irving #1 that I'm willing to bet a $50 donation to RCF.

Any takers from the Williams camp?
 
If brandon knight has a succesful workout against th cavs dont be surprised to see williams going one.

Theres three potentially 4 solid point guards going tino this draft its the one thing this draft is actually strong in.

You're saying take BPA, yet here you're also saying we should base our #1 pick on our #4 pick? Just because Irving, Knight, Walker, and Fredette may all end up being solid PG's does not mean there isn't a very clear difference in potential between the 4 of them. If the Cavs view Irving as the BPA in this draft, they will NOT settle for Williams/Knight. Plus, if we were to draft Williams at #1, who the heck says Knight would even be there at #4? It's very possible that the draft would go #1 Williams, #2 Irving (Minnesota drafts him as an asset so they can trade him or Rubio, or another team trades up to #2 to select Irving; Irving is NOT slipping past #2), #3 Knight. So now the whole basis of your argument - select Williams at #1 because you can get Knight at #4, is totally screwed.

The last thing you want is your goto scorer to be the guy who sets the ball into motion. the game is won in the paint.

No one said Irving would be our go to scorer. Actually, one of the many reasons so many of us are intrigued by Irving is because he is much more of a traditional PG who will set up his teammates well and run a team well. If we can get the PG of our future (who we view as BPA in the draft as well), a solid big man (whether we get lucky and pull off Williams, or get Valanciunas/Kanter), we will do that. And 2012 should be stacked with go to scoring wings.
 
Im sure Williams will have a successful career but at this point the Cavs arent going to pass on a game changer. A point guard like Irving is going to have more of an overall impact game to game then a power forward/ small forward because the ball is in their hand on almost every possession. Also, look at Scott's history with pg's, im sure hes pulling for Irving more so then Williams because he knows how to make a team win with a dominant one. To add to this, there a lot of power forward and small forwards headed to the lottery next year so theres no need for the Cavs to draft one now. With that said, Williams is outstanding physical specimen and will have a bright future but the need for a young point guard is the more intelligent pick for the Cavs.
 
So much overstating and over analizing..the Cavs need the best talent on the board when they pick..pick the best players to jumpstart this team..if the best talent also happens to be a postion of need(which in the Cavs case it is) then they can't go wrong.
 
From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Situational-Statistics-the-2011-Forward-Crop-3762#ixzz1Por5eU5F

I love the situational stats breakdowns they are providing

Derrick Williams is the most highly touted prospect in this group, and his situational stats do nothing to diminish his standing.

Williams shouldered a heavy load for Arizona this season at 16.4 possessions per game (5th in this group), but was nevertheless the most efficient forward of the players we looked at, scoring 1.16 points per possession. That's especially impressive considering how heavily defenses keyed in on stopping him, how little playmaking Arizona had besides him, and the way in which he generated his offense.

In fact, Williams' offensive efficiency ranks higher than every other player in this draft besides Jon Diebler (1.3 PPP) and ironically enough, fellow #1 overall pick candidate Kyrie Irving (1.2).

The key to Williams' efficiency begins with his ability to get to the free throw line, where he knocks down 75% of his attempts. He got to the free throw line on over 1/4th of his possessions, which ranks 2nd in this draft behind Tristan Thompson.

Williams may not shoot the most jumpers of this group—only 25% of his shots come in this form-- a far cry from Kyle Singler and Robin Benzing at 63% or Chris Singleton at 56%-- but he makes more of the jumpers he does take (56%, or 1.6 points per shot) than anyone, and not by a small margin.

Williams appears to do a great job trusting Arizona's offense and waiting for good opportunities to come to him rather than hunting shots—something that his NBA coach will surely appreciate. Williams amazingly enough only took 5 pull-up jumpers all season, representing just 1% of his total offense.

This can be viewed as either a positive or a negative. On one hand he refused to settle for these low-percentage opportunities (which with the shorter 3-point line, are truly bad shots in the collegiate game). On the other hand, this may be a part of his game that he'll need to work on, particularly if he's expected to create offense from the perimeter in the NBA as heavily as he did in college.

Williams was indeed one of the most dangerous shot-creators in the college game amongst big men (he played almost all his minutes at Center at Arizona), scoring an outstanding 1.3 points per possession (#1) in isolation situations and getting fouled on nearly a third of his possessions (#1). By comparison, the next most effective isolation threat in this group, Kyle Singler, scored just .99 points per possession, getting to the free throw line at half the rate. None of the other first round prospects were anywhere near as effective.

This did come at the expense of turning the ball over on 16% of his possessions (3rd), though.

Williams' versatility shines through in the rest of his game, as he did an excellent job scoring in post-up situations (1.06 PPP), pick and roll finishes (1.37 PPP), and cuts (1.26). Some of the credit for this should go to Arizona's coaching staff, which obviously knew precisely how to exploit Williams' strengths and did a great job putting him in position to succeed.
 
You'll be able to find a quality SF in next year's draft, especially if you're drafting as high as I think we will be. I don't think there's a PG as good as Irving in the draft next year. *That may change*. But in the here and now, with what we know in this draft, you have to go with the good, maybe great, PG. You have to. You'll be able to find a SF later, either through trade or the draft.
 

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