A Closer Look at Derrick Williams

[Jezzar]

I agree that absent the potential for chronic injury, Irving would be the BPA at #1. The injury potential makes that debatable; looking at the Cavs' particular situation, I just feel the BPA at #1 for them is Williams.

I would not qualify Irving's injury as one that has potential to be chronic. I'd be inclined to agree if he had injuries to his knees or something, but that is not the case.

Derrick Williams is a quality player, however, I have concerns about:

1) His ability to defend at the next level
2) His ballhandling skills

If he's a 3 like he's advertising, he's gotta put a lot of work in, as his perimeter skills are below average for a NBA small forward. If he's a 4, he's undersized, and he will have a lot of trouble defending bigger power forwards.

Either way, I think it is not that safe to pick a tweener with the first pick and hope he excels in a particular position.

 

[czvo]

Williams has not shown any ability to play on the perimeter. Don't point to his three point shooting because they were mostly spot up shots. The majority of is plays took place in the post.

If you're going to pass on Irving because of his "injury potential," then you can't just assume Williams is a SF. That's just as big, and maybe bigger, a question mark.

 

[CommD]

Williams has not shown any ability to play on the perimeter. Don't point to his three point shooting because they were mostly spot up shots. The majority of is plays took place in the post.

If you're going to pass on Irving because of his "injury potential," then you can't just assume Williams is a SF. That's just as big, and maybe bigger, a question mark.

I do not assume that Williams is a small forward. I merely point out that it is at least possible that he can play there. Since the Cavs have evaluated him, I am sure they have a better sense of this than those here who dismiss the possibility out of hand.

And of course, whether he can play small forward will not be the sole determinator of whether he is chosen number one, as Hickson is coming up to his contract year and has plenty of questions as to whether he can play championship level basketball.

 

[Smooth]

If he's a 4, he's undersized, and he will have a lot of trouble defending bigger power forwards.

While I agree with most of what you're saying, I'm not sure this is fair in Williams case..

I know the 'tweener label has been thrown out a lot about Williams but his pre-draft measurements should erase any of those doubts that he's not undersized..

He measured in at 6'7.25" in shoes and 6'8.75" with shoes, which is the same height as Hakim Warrick, Tyrus Thomas and just a bit smaller than Darrell Arthur... His measurements were better than Josh Smith too.. He weighed in at 248lbs., which is pretty solid and what guys like Blake Griffin, Al Horford, Greg Monroe, etc., weighed in at... The measurement that matters most though is his standing reach which he measured in at 9'0" which is an excellent measurement for a guy his size... That's longer arms than Noah, Horford, Haslem, etc...

While Williams isn't the prototypical PF height, he's not a midget by any means and makes it up for it with his weight and arms...

There can certainly be a discussion on good of a defender Williams is/will be but Williams is far from being undersized for the 4 spot...

 

[Hydroponic3385]

I do not assume that Williams is a small forward. I merely point out that it is at least possible that he can play there. Since the Cavs have evaluated him, I am sure they have a better sense of this than those here who dismiss the possibility out of hand.

And of course, whether he can play small forward will not be the sole determinator of whether he is chosen number one, as Hickson is coming up to his contract year and has plenty of questions as to whether he can play championship level basketball.

Use the same logic with Irving.

"I do not assume that Irving will never have another toe injury. I merely point out that it is at least possible (or in his case, very possible) that he can play in the NBA with little concern about his toe. Since the Cavs and their medical staff evaluated him, I am sure they have a better sense of this than those who dismiss the possibility out of hand."

 

[daddywags]

While I agree with most of what you're saying, I'm not sure this is fair in Williams case..

I know the 'tweener label has been thrown out a lot about Williams but his pre-draft measurements should erase any of those doubts that he's not undersized..

He measured in at 6'7.25" in shoes and 6'8.75" with shoes, which is the same height as Hakim Warrick, Tyrus Thomas and just a bit smaller than Darrell Arthur... His measurements were better than Josh Smith too.. He weighed in at 248lbs., which is pretty solid and what guys like Blake Griffin, Al Horford, Greg Monroe, etc., weighed in at... The measurement that matters most though is his standing reach which he measured in at 9'0" which is an excellent measurement for a guy his size... That's longer arms than Noah, Horford, Haslem, etc...

While Williams isn't the prototypical PF height, he's not a midget by any means and makes it up for it with his weight and arms...

There can certainly be a discussion on good of a defender Williams is/will be but Williams is far from being undersized for the 4 spot...

Smooth - I think generally that's correct, however, matched up against PFs like Bosh and Garnett and, maybe, Dirk and Gasol he'll be undersized on defense.

 

[Keith]

While Williams isn't the prototypical PF height, he's not a midget by any means and makes it up for it with his weight and arms... There can certainly be a discussion on good of a defender Williams is/will be but Williams is far from being undersized for the 4 spot...

I think the, "tweener," label that Derrick Williams is getting is a direct result of how he plays the game of basketball (outside/in) and has little to do with his height. He does not have the handles and speed needed of a three...He also shows difficulty of getting to the rim and tends to float around on the perimeter (even though he is a legit 6'7...

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

I still think you're doing Williams' an injustice if you're trying to put him at the three. The guy is going to come in the league and be a very good 4. He's going to be excellent in pick and pops, he's going to be a beast on the pick and roll, and he's going to have a good face-up game. Defensively, he's going to make his biggest impact around the rim, but he's not going to be staying in front of some of the perimeter players we currently have in the league. He's going to have to make his living in the NBA defensively as a 4 by playing like Udonis Haslem, always being in position, always fighting, always being tough.

Williams' most probable and probable best potential NBA trajectory is to end up like David West, or Carlos Boozer with extended range and more explosiveness. He needs to be put at the 4 and get a bunch of pick and roll plays called with a good point guard who can shoot.....which is one reason I think the Cavs so desperately want to find a way to pair Irving and Williams, they fit together and would be a very dynamic duo to build around.

I'm in shock when I hear Paul Pierce or Carmelo Anthony comparisons. He's not as fluid or clever with the ball as pierce, he's not as comfortable and smooth as Anthony, he's very rigid and even slow at times, and that's fine for a 4 with a face-up game, but for the focal point of an offense on the wing? He's not that guy.

 

[Futuredome]

Yeah, I think if Williams had shown his game was able to get to the hoop in consistant fashion, he would be the clear cut number 1 pick as a small foward.

If the Cavs take Williams, it tells me they think he is a 3 for sure. His body type matches, but they would also agree, his game does as well down the road.

 

[Jezzar]

While I agree with most of what you're saying, I'm not sure this is fair in Williams case..

I know the 'tweener label has been thrown out a lot about Williams but his pre-draft measurements should erase any of those doubts that he's not undersized..

He measured in at 6'7.25" in shoes and 6'8.75" with shoes, which is the same height as Hakim Warrick, Tyrus Thomas and just a bit smaller than Darrell Arthur... His measurements were better than Josh Smith too.. He weighed in at 248lbs., which is pretty solid and what guys like Blake Griffin, Al Horford, Greg Monroe, etc., weighed in at... The measurement that matters most though is his standing reach which he measured in at 9'0" which is an excellent measurement for a guy his size... That's longer arms than Noah, Horford, Haslem, etc...

While Williams isn't the prototypical PF height, he's not a midget by any means and makes it up for it with his weight and arms...

There can certainly be a discussion on good of a defender Williams is/will be but Williams is far from being undersized for the 4 spot...

It is not just about his height. In my opinion his body type is more suited for a 3 than a 4. He looks like he should drop 20 or so pounds to be a SF with real good size, because his frame looks to me like its not supporting that 248 pounds well. Again, this is just my opinion.

If he plays the 4 at the NBA level, he will get out muscled.

 

[NarlCavs]

What position you play is dictated most of the time by what position you can best defend. I don't think a lot of experts believe Williams has the necessary tools to defend NBA SF's and wing players regularly.

Williams is best suited to be a PF. His game, size, and wing span seem to show that's where he belongs. He needs to stop trying to tell everyone he's a SF.

 

[Pioneer10]

Williams measurements at the combine really reassured in terms of his ability to play the 4. As Dallas just recently shown a PF who can stretch the defense all the way to the 3 point line and who also is able to do two things on offense (score on the pick and roll and iso at the high post) is extremely valuable. Now Williams is clearly is not Dirk, but I see him as a David West with even better range. I think it's frankly ridiculous the equivalency that is being drawn by that kind of talent and JJ. JJ is a bonehead who is not only not any bigger then JJ hasn't shown he can consistently hit a midrange jumpshot let alone have 3 point potential. He maybe a better rebounder then Williams but Williams is better then him across the board IMO.

 

[WhoWeAre]

It will be put to rest by Grant and Gilbert on draft day. Their evaluations are the ones which matter. Cavs' fans will then be content to root for the team at hand.

I'm willing to bet a $50 dollar donation to RCF that you are completely wrong. Irving will be #1. Irving is BPA. PG is our biggest need. No matter how you look at it -- Irving is the best choice for #1.

 

[Tornicade]

I'm willing to bet a $50 dollar donation to RCF that you are completely wrong. Irving will be #1. Irving is BPA. PG is our biggest need. No matter how you look at it -- Irving is the best choice for #1.

Although I agree that most likely Irving will be the 1st pick. Point guard is not the teams biggest need. in fact you could put any point guard in the league on the team and it would still have major issues to address at the 2 and the 3. primarily the three.

The Cavs productions was worst in the league at those 2 positions and the cavs 19 wins were mostly a result of good play from those positions.

The NBA small forward is critical to transition defense. Help defense and setting up the perimeter defense.

Point guard play was one of the few bright spots from last years season.

In addition even if the team was needing a point guard. the team would draft whatever position had the BPA even if they already had quality players at that position.

Positional needs are not a factor when determining what player the draft is and you should be glad because if they were Irving would be selected to trade for the guys they do need.

 

[czvo]

Although I agree that most likely Irving will be the 1st pick. Point guard is not the teams biggest need. in fact you could put any point guard in the league on the team and it would still have major issues to address at the 2 and the 3. primarily the three.

The Cavs productions was worst in the league at those 2 positions and the cavs 19 wins were mostly a result of good play from those positions.

The NBA small forward is critical to transition defense. Help defense and setting up the perimeter defense.

Point guard play was one of the few bright spots from last years season.

In addition even if the team was needing a point guard. the team would draft whatever position had the BPA even if they already had quality players at that position.

Positional needs are not a factor when determining what player the draft is and you should be glad because if they were Irving would be selected to trade for the guys they do need.

Thats great and all, but there isn't a SF prospect in this draft worth taking instead of Kyrie.

And can we stop acting like the PG spot was actuallY good? Baron has no future here, and Ramon is a backup at best. It was not a "bright spot."