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2016 Cleveland Indians

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shoes22 said:
I know I'm in the minority opinion on this, but I think Chief Wahoo looks badass and I view wearing it as a source of pride almost. Growing up I always thought that we had the coolest logo in the league because it actually was a "character" and at the time the Tribe had the only logo in baseball that didn't have a letter, words, or script attached to it on the hats. I liked having that distinction. Ironically we "replaced" it with the blandest logo in the league with that block C.

I never viewed CW as something that was supposed to represent or portray actual Native American people, no more so than Tony the Tiger on a cereal box is meant to portray an actual tiger. It's an imaginary thing. I would hope most people my age feel that way.
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Except it's not imaginary, it actually does represent a clearly racist caricature of a Native American.

Nor have the Indians ever been the only team without a letter.
 
AZ_ said:
Except it's not imaginary, it actually does represent a clearly racist caricature of a Native American.

Nor have the Indians ever been the only team without a letter.
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I didn't hear one peep out of you about the Browns mascot clearly being a character deflaming of Johnny Manziel
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What about this is ok to you?
 
with any picture/name now-a-days you can find someone bitching about it..

If it changes, it changes. If it doesn't, I am fine with that too.

Am I butt hurt about some dickbag wearing a "Caucasian" shirt with a $ symbol as the feather? No.

As long as you don't wear a shirt that is CLEARLY stating an obvious hate. "Fuck white people." "Fuck black people." Or are clearly being an ignorant bitch protesting or showing racists acts, then do/say whatever you want.

Should Tornicade go protest the Columbus Crew b/c he ain't got no Crew?

Just dumb.
 
NtG said:
As a white male, I would totally rock this shirt and think it's hilarious. Not even slightly offended. I'm more offended that Bomani would think that would offend white people.

Side note: Fuck Bomani Jones.
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As a Caucasian male, I totally agree.. I think it's funny, and in no way does it make me feel offended in any way. Then again, I'm not one to cry racism and get offended over the littlest things like some people do. Especially nowadays. Hell I don't even look at CW and think racism at all. I guess I just have a higher tolerance for such things.

I'm not going to tell anyone how they should feel about anything, including Chief Wahoo, because the people who tell other people what they should or shouldn't be offended by are just the absolute worst people... second worst are the ones who are offended and look for racism in everything. But at the end of the day when it comes to things that are racist in this world... Chief Wahoo is fucking trivial.

The only merch with the block C on it I'll buy is the blue fitted hat because it really is sharp and versatile with many outfits. But anything else is Chief Wahoo all day.
 
SixPACK said:
Am I butt hurt about some dickbag wearing a "Caucasian" shirt with a $ symbol as the feather? No.
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I don't quite think you got the pint of that shirt and Bomani wearing it.

As for free speech, people should be able to say what they want of course. But capitalizing on and monetizing for almost a century a trademarked caricature/logo based on racial stereotyping from the near past towards an entire population that was wiped out, violently assimilated, marginalized, and then tucked away in "safe" little out of sight out of mind corners of the country is just wrong. It's always been wrong. We have the power and choice to do the correct thing but instead people are going to say "it's not offensive, it's a tribute, it's always been that way"

It's always bummed out and will continue to bum me out. I've felt that way since about 13 and not because anyone else told me to. But I still love this team, franchise, and fan base.
 
MirORich said:
I don't quite think you got the pint of that shirt and Bomani wearing it.
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I'm 100% not being a smartass when I say can you explain it to me. Because I don't think I got it either.

MirORich said:
We have the power and choice to do the correct thing
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But that's the thing MirORich, just because it is the correct thing to you does not make it the correct thing. People can have differing opinions. I don't think the correct thing is to get rid of the chief, but it isn't because of the following

MirORich said:
but instead people are going to say "it's not offensive, it's a tribute, it's always been that way"
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Because I have never once called it a tribute, and think it is silly when people do. It isn't a tribute. And I can see how it is offensive.

If I go anymore into this it will just become a political opinion, and I honestly just want to watch stinky p and the fearsome 3 race their way to the wild card play in game.
 
Rob said:
Anyone know when Brantley is coming back?

Also, Columbus folks, what the hell radio station broadcasts Tribe games? I really want to be able to listen to games on my way home from work.
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I'm guessing he's back after the series vs the Mets. Can see the move to activate him, Chiz, and Hunter on the 18th since its an off day.
 
Rob said:
Anyone know when Brantley is coming back?

Also, Columbus folks, what the hell radio station broadcasts Tribe games? I really want to be able to listen to games on my way home from work.
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According to Jordan Bastian, there is no timetable for Brantley to start his rehab assignment. He estimates late April/early May for Brantleys return. Right now Michael is in Columbus doing workouts.
 
NtG said:
As a white male, I would totally rock this shirt and think it's hilarious. Not even slightly offended. I'm more offended that Bomani would think that would offend white people.

Side note: Fuck Bomani Jones.
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NTG, i am not gonna lie - for some reason - all these years, i always thought you were not caucasion.
 
Maybe we can move the Wahoo discussion here and get back to this year's team?

I think our lineup is going to be a lot better than people think assuming Brantley comes back OK. I'd guess Kipnis moves to leadoff with Lindor sliding to the #2 hole.

L-2B-Kipnis
S-SS-Lindor
L-LF-Brantley
R-1B-Napoli
S-DH-Santana
R-C-Gomes
L-RF-Chisenhall
R-3B-Uribe
PLT-CF-Naquin/Davis

The way Jose Ramirez has played, I think he may push Uribe for ABs at 3B.

My primary concern on this team is the bullpen. Cody Allen is superb, but after that there are a lot of question marks. Bryan Shaw has been solid for us, but I worry about overuse the last few years. Trevor Bauer isn't reliable at this point and may be disgruntled, Zach McAllister, Dan Otero, Jeff Manship, and Ross Detwiler are better suited for low leverage situations, and we're not sure what Joba Chamberlain can do. Detwiler is the only lefty as well. Tommy Hunter could help once he's healthy and Shawn Armstrong might get an early promotion. It's a concern though, and one I think they'll have to address. Joe Nathan is expected to return sometime this season and could be a free agent option, Casey Janssen is out there...Justin Masterson and Tim Lincecum would be interesting as relievers, but my guess is they'll both sign with clubs willing to give them a shot at starting. Given the lack of options, my guess is they see what sticks internally and swing a July deal if necessary.
 
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sgm405 said:
Maybe we can move the Wahoo discussion here and get back to this year's team?

I think our lineup is going to be a lot better than people think assuming Brantley comes back OK. I'd guess Kipnis moves to leadoff with Lindor sliding to the #2 hole.

L-2B-Kipnis
S-SS-Lindor
L-LF-Brantley
R-1B-Napoli
S-DH-Santana
R-C-Gomes
L-RF-Chisenhall
R-3B-Uribe
PLT-CF-Naquin/Davis

The way Jose Ramirez has played, I think he may push Uribe for ABs at 3B.

My primary concern on this team is the bullpen. Cody Allen is superb, but after that there are a lot of question marks. Bryan Shaw has been solid for us, but I worry about overuse the last few years. Trevor Bauer isn't reliable at this point and may be disgruntled, Zach McAllister, Dan Otero, Jeff Manship, and Ross Detwiler are better suited for low leverage situations, and we're not sure what Joba Chamberlain can do. Detwiler is the only lefty as well. Tommy Hunter could help once he's healthy and Shawn Armstrong might get an early promotion. It's a concern though, and one I think they'll have to address. Joe Nathan is expected to return sometime this season and could be a free agent option, Casey Janssen is out there...Justin Masterson and Tim Lincecum would be interesting as relievers, but my guess is they'll both sign with clubs willing to give them a shot at starting. Given the lack of options, my guess is they see what sticks internally and swing a July deal if necessary.
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I think Tommy Hunter will be a breath of fresh air once he is back. Sounds to me like his struggles last year were a result of the injuries (and subsequent surgeries) that cost him his deal with the Yankees this off season (on top of some worse luck than his previous 2 seasons as a reliever). I think having another guy who throws hard as hell in the back end will work well with Shaw who is all about movement. I don't think we made him our 3rd highest paid reliever to see low leverage spots either.

And I really think McAllister needs to be given more work. Tito is a terrific manager, but he's made some pretty poor calls that are uncharacteristic from him so far this year (why does our CF have to leadoff, why is Cowgill getting ABs over Byrd vs LHP, why didn't he challenge Davis' steal of 3rd, and why did he bring the setup man in in the 7th). Once he transitioned into the pen last year, Zach was arguably our best reliever. 2.49 ERA with 79 K in 65 IP is nothing to ignore. His entire repertoire is around his fastball too, which all series long Chicago couldn't handle from our staff (couldn't hit Salazar's stuff in the upper 90s, couldn't hit Cody's in the mid to low 90s)...and he was already up and warm in the pen, which makes the move to bring in Shaw an inning earlier more head scratching.

And the Shaw concern needs to be real, and Tito needs to notice as well. Guy has had the most appearances in baseball the last few years. Eventually shit will catch up to him.

But we also have a wildcard up our sleeves...if they can get Craig Stammen healthy and back on track, I think he can replace Otero, Manship, or Chamberlain (whoever isn't optioned or DFA'd to make room for Hunter coming off the DL). Guy had 3 real impressive seasons in a row before his injury cost him his season last year. He's a much better version of Otero when he is right; a sinker ball pitcher who can also strike guys out at a decent rate is a nice luxury to have, especially when you have a manager who tends to make moves to the pen based on situations. Plus I'd rather be talking about a guy with elbow problems than a guy with shoulder problems, so there is some hope there that he does in fact regain his form and is healthy.

But, all in all, I'm good with a 2-2 start where we should be 3-1. Not exactly a favorable schedule for us with all of these LHP being tossed at us early on, missing 2 of our starting OFs, and none of our starters have looked sharp with all their stuff yet, which you know is going to happen once they get into some better conditions. Also nice that we have had 2 games postponed...2 less games without Brantley.
 
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