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2017-2018 off-season thread

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Muffinalt said:
Some of those names are hilarous.
We should really look into Antonius Cleveland or Chance Comanche. :chuckle:
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Holy Shit.

Fuck Butler. Fuck PG.

Get Antonius Cleveland ffs.

Are you kidding me? How the fuck can you not get a player who has a name like that?
 
billmac91 said:
This just isn't true....Griffin and Gilbert had "different views" of the future. Those differing views included trading Love for guys on shorter contractual deals.

Gilbert is completely hung up on "player control". The deal died as soon as Griffin essentially got canned. Butler got traded for scrap heaps (Kris Dunn and Zach Lavine plus swapping of picks). That's trash....the Bulls are so far from contending, helping the Cavs means nothing....

If Gilbert shared Griffin's vision, it would have resulted in Love being the centerpiece of a deal that brought back Butler. Gilbert is the one driving the bus right now and that means no substantial changes to the roster for fear of turning into the 2010 Cavaliers.....
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Dude, you're too good of a poster to actually believe this.

1) The "different views" weren't roster related. They were compensation for Griff related. He wanted $7-8m a year. Gilbert didn't think he was worth that.

2) The Bulls wanted young players. You're entitled to your opinion that Lavine and Dunn are trash, but clearly the Bulls (right or wrong) didn't feel that way. They want to rebuild and viewed the #7 pick and two recent lottery picks as a better return than Love or whatever else the Cavs could offer.

3) Trading him out west versus to a conference/division rival is probably a factor too. Likely not the biggest factor, but a factor nonetheless.

Butler wasn't coming here. It had nothing to do with Butler not wanting to come here either, or the Cavs not wanting him over Love.
 
TheLand1287 said:
Dude, you're too good of a poster to actually believe this.

1) The "different views" weren't roster related. They were compensation for Griff related. He wanted $7-8m a year. Gilbert didn't think he was worth that.

2) The Bulls wanted young players. You're entitled to your opinion that Lavine and Dunn are trash, but clearly the Bulls (right or wrong) didn't feel that way. They want to rebuild and viewed the #7 pick and two recent lottery picks as a better return than Love or whatever else the Cavs could offer.

3) Trading him out west versus to a conference/division rival is probably a factor too. Likely not the biggest factor, but a factor nonetheless.

Butler wasn't coming here. It had nothing to do with Butler not wanting to come here either, or the Cavs not wanting him over Love.
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The Cavs lack the two biggest needs for a rebuilding team- young players and picks.

The Bulls want to rebuild, so does Indiana. The only viable rumor IMO was trading Love for the #4 pick and moving it to acquire PG or JB. They probably never had an assurance from Chicago that it would have been sufficient as they likely wanted, and eventually got, Lavine and Dunn back too.

Melo is an probably always has been a viable option- my guess is he and LBJ have talked and they're waiting to see if he get bought out.

Wade seems like a buyout option too- although I think he really doesn't want to come to Cleveland.
 
TheLand1287 said:
Dude, you're too good of a poster to actually believe this.

1) The "different views" weren't roster related. They were compensation for Griff related. He wanted $7-8m a year. Gilbert didn't think he was worth that.

2) The Bulls wanted young players. You're entitled to your opinion that Lavine and Dunn are trash, but clearly the Bulls (right or wrong) didn't feel that way. They want to rebuild and viewed the #7 pick and two recent lottery picks as a better return than Love or whatever else the Cavs could offer.

3) Trading him out west versus to a conference/division rival is probably a factor too. Likely not the biggest factor, but a factor nonetheless.

Butler wasn't coming here. It had nothing to do with Butler not wanting to come here either, or the Cavs not wanting him over Love.
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Griffin wanted more money sure....but they absolutely, philosophically differed on how to approach this off-season, so beyond the money, Griff didn't want his name attached to this roster after getting our asses handed to us by GSW.

It went from "Look for Paul George to CLE rumors as soon as game 7 is over"...which was accurate...Until Griffin left.

To..."don't believe the reports about Cavs activity right now...everything is quiet and we're rolling into next season with same core."

I truly believe Griff ends up getting Butler if he had the job, and final decision making power. In fact, I think it's possible Griff and Gilbert mutually parted over the decision of whether or not to package Love in a deal that may of been on the table. He was actively shopping Love. Griffin recognized the need to immediately improve if we want to compete with Golden State. Gilbert shut it down....I've repeated it 30 times now, but Gilbert does not want the value of the franchise going from $1.2B to $500M overnight, next off-season (which would of been possible had the Cavs traded for Paul George using Kevin Love, and then LeBron and George walked that off-season).

While Jimmy Butler has 2 years left on his deal which was slightly more appealing, unless it matched Kevin's 4 years, it wasn't going to happen. Gilbert values player control way too much....and he see's a path forward after LeBron should LeBron head into the sun-set next year.

And I'm not even taking sides here, because as much as I am disappointed we aren't going to make any major moves this off-season, I also understand having a $1.2B investment, and wanting to make sure it never devalues the way it did after "The Decision".
 
chuck0609 said:
The Cavs lack the two biggest needs for a rebuilding team- young players and picks.

The Bulls want to rebuild, so does Indiana. The only viable rumor IMO was trading Love for the #4 pick and moving it to acquire PG or JB. They probably never had an assurance from Chicago that it would have been sufficient as they likely wanted, and eventually got, Lavine and Dunn back too.

Melo is an probably always has been a viable option- my guess is he and LBJ have talked and they're waiting to see if he get bought out.

Wade seems like a buyout option too- although I think he really doesn't want to come to Cleveland.
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Just gotta hope Miami isn't semi-good next season. I think he'll go there (finish out his career) if they look like a playoff contender.
 
chuck0609 said:
The Cavs lack the two biggest needs for a rebuilding team- young players and picks.

The Bulls want to rebuild, so does Indiana. The only viable rumor IMO was trading Love for the #4 pick and moving it to acquire PG or JB. They probably never had an assurance from Chicago that it would have been sufficient as they likely wanted, and eventually got, Lavine and Dunn back too.

Melo is an probably always has been a viable option- my guess is he and LBJ have talked and they're waiting to see if he get bought out.

Wade seems like a buyout option too- although I think he really doesn't want to come to Cleveland.
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On board with everything said but Wade not wanting to play here. He wasn't coming here last year with what we had to offer but the thought was there and then reality of the financial loss kicks in. I would be willing to bet that if the Cavs had the cap room the bulls had he's here and not there.

He has got to be itching to be relevant again and he knows that him alone doesn't put any team not already a contender a chance anymore.

He doesn't come here for Cleveland. He comes here because LeBron and the only place other then GS that gets him to the finals.
 
sportscoach said:
Hence why I haven't really watched the team as much since LeBron has come back since it is everything is his way for the most part and it doesn't always mean it is the best thing for everyone.

We have big contracts, no draft picks, no way to buy draft picks and no way to sign anyone that's good unless they take big pay cuts. It is still possible to make moves, but the amount of moves we can make will still have are very limited. I am not sure how a team is going to upgrade to beat the Warriors with the limited moves we can possibly make.
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Did we or did we not win a championship?

What the hell is the goal of playing the sport? I swear the Danny Ainge philosophy is taking hold everywhere. Apparently the goal is to just continue accumulating draft picks and young players and having flexibility, as opposed to actually winning the damn game?

What in the world, man.....
 
billmac91 said:
Griffin wanted more money sure....but they absolutely, philosophically differed on how to approach this off-season, so beyond the money, Griff didn't want his name attached to this roster after getting our asses handed to us by GSW.

It went from "Look for Paul George to CLE rumors as soon as game 7 is over"...which was accurate...Until Griffin left.

To..."don't believe the reports about Cavs activity right now...everything is quiet and we're rolling into next season with same core."

I truly believe Griff ends up getting Butler if he had the job, and final decision making power. In fact, I think it's possible Griff and Gilbert mutually parted over the decision of whether or not to package Love in a deal that may of been on the table. He was actively shopping Love. Griffin recognized the need to immediately improve if we want to compete with Golden State. Gilbert shut it down....I've repeated it 30 times now, but Gilbert does not want the value of the franchise going from $1.2B to $500M overnight, next off-season (which would of been possible had the Cavs traded for Paul George using Kevin Love, and then LeBron and George walked that off-season).

While Jimmy Butler has 2 years left on his deal which was slightly more appealing, unless it matched Kevin's 4 years, it wasn't going to happen. Gilbert values player control way too much....and he see's a path forward after LeBron should LeBron head into the sun-set next year.

And I'm not even taking sides here, because as much as I am disappointed we aren't going to make any major moves this off-season, I also understand having a $1.2B investment, and wanting to make sure it never devalues the way it did after "The Decision".
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I agree with most of what you said. Love has 2 years left plus a player option in 2019-2020. This is basically the same as Butler's contract, Love will most likely opt out of his contract. I do think Griff would have been able to figure out a package to get Butler if he didn't leave.

I really believe though that the difference in Gilberts and Griff's vision is Big 4 vs Big 3. There are reports that Gilbert wanted Griff to be more aggressive. Swapping Love for Butler and keeping the rest of the roster the same isn't aggressive. What would be aggressive is swapping out 3 of our players for Melo, going after replacements in free agency, resigning Korver and trading him at the deadline.

I think the differing opinions between Griff and Gilbert we're about the reshaping of the roster. Going forward Griff would have to admit failure with the majority of his trades and move the guys he acquired in the past couple seasons. All the players he acquired are the ones we are talking about trading, Love, Frye, Shump, and Korver. JR might be the lone guy left from Griff's trades and it's open knowledge he had to be convinced to do it.
 
Rich said:
Did we or did we not win a championship?

What the hell is the goal of playing the sport? I swear the Danny Ainge philosophy is taking hold everywhere. Apparently the goal is to just continue accumulating draft picks and young players and having flexibility, as opposed to actually winning the damn game?

What in the world, man.....
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We did win a championship but we strapped ourselves to be only able to win one and that's it. I am not saying we didn't, but what I am saying is some of the moves we made essentially made it impossible to keep winning championships since we have no way to acquire the assets to beat the warriors with their current team. We are short a player and honestly no way to acquire that player since we have older players/no draft picks.

Celtics have a much better head coach without a doubt and aren't worried about pleasing one guy. We are only trying to please LeBrons interests and that doesn't always mean getting the best players/moves for the future plus the present. We keep doing the moves like the Nets did for Garnet and Pierce and it doesn't mean it actually upgrades our team. This is just my opinion, but when you build an organization, you have to find a way to always bring in young talent with the veterans and we didn't do that.
 
sportscoach said:
We did win a championship but we strapped ourselves to be only able to win one and that's it. I am not saying we didn't, but what I am saying is some of the moves we made essentially made it impossible to keep winning championships since we have no way to acquire the assets to beat the warriors with their current team. We are short a player and honestly no way to acquire that player since we have older players/no draft picks.

Celtics have a much better head coach without a doubt and aren't worried about pleasing one guy. We are only trying to please LeBrons interests and that doesn't always mean getting the best players/moves for the future plus the present. We keep doing the moves like the Nets did for Garnet and Pierce and it doesn't mean it actually upgrades our team. This is just my opinion, but when you build an organization, you have to find a way to always bring in young talent with the veterans and we didn't do that.
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Who does Boston have that compares to LBJ? lOL.

Com'on man, EVERY team in the NBA would do whatever LBJ wants, including Boston.
You just don't say no to a once ina lifetime player.
Bostons done a nice job of putting together a roster, but they have zero chance of beating the Cavs unless LBJ gets hurt.
 
sportscoach said:
We did win a championship but we strapped ourselves to be only able to win one and that's it. I am not saying we didn't, but what I am saying is some of the moves we made essentially made it impossible to keep winning championships since we have no way to acquire the assets to beat the warriors with their current team.
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While I agree that we overpaid a lot of guys and Griffin was borderline reckless with picks, he can't really be blamed for not anticipating the biggest act of cowardice in sport history. The team he assembled was clearly good enough to compete with Golden State pre-Durant. I'd like to say he faltered by not attempting to counter that move with some more defensive pieces, but if we're being truthful, there really is no counter for that.

As bleak as things look right now and how unlikely it seems that we'll win another title, you'd be lying if you wouldn't do it all over again if you were guaranteed at least the one. The prevailing mindset went from "just get me one" to "hoard titles". Let's keep some perspective here.
 
JMoneyYourHoney said:
While I agree that we overpaid a lot of guys and Griffin was borderline reckless with picks, he can't really be blamed for not anticipating the biggest act of cowardice in sport history. The team he assembled was clearly good enough to compete with Golden State pre-Durant. I'd like to say he faltered by not attempting to counter that move with some more defensive pieces, but if we're being truthful, there really is no counter for that.

As bleak as things look right now and how unlikely it seems that we'll win another title, you'd be lying if you wouldn't do it all over again if you were guaranteed at least the one. The prevailing mindset went from "just get me one" to "hoard titles". Let's keep some perspective here.
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I think Griff didn't value picks since he didnt acquire them. At the same time that might be the reason you let him go too. GMs tend to overvalue the players and assets they acquire. For us to move forward, most of the players Griff acquired may need to go. We can't overvalue players like Shump, Frye, RJ, Korver, etc.

If we can get free agents to take over some of the role players spots, we might need to take equal or lesser players in trades to fill positions of need. Our only chance to upgrade the overall roster is to do things Griff never did. Getting talent through free agency and undrafted player, and acquire positions of need through equal talent position swapping trades. I just don't think Griff was the man for the job and the front office needed new voices because we haven't been successful in these areas in recent years.
 
Griff did a good job imo.


As one guy above me said you cant predict the 73 win team getting KD.


Now if Griff didn't try to get a defender or felt we didn't need one he messed up. But the team he built was good enough to beat the 73 win GS team. So imo he did his job. If KD didn't exist the team he built could've ran off 3 straight titles. Maybe even had 4 in 5 years if Kyrie and Love weren't hurt in 2015.
 
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