2017-2018 off-season thread

[billmac91]

I agree with most of what you said. Love has 2 years left plus a player option in 2019-2020. This is basically the same as Butler's contract, Love will most likely opt out of his contract. I do think Griff would have been able to figure out a package to get Butler if he didn't leave.

I really believe though that the difference in Gilberts and Griff's vision is Big 4 vs Big 3. There are reports that Gilbert wanted Griff to be more aggressive. Swapping Love for Butler and keeping the rest of the roster the same isn't aggressive. What would be aggressive is swapping out 3 of our players for Melo, going after replacements in free agency, resigning Korver and trading him at the deadline.

I think the differing opinions between Griff and Gilbert we're about the reshaping of the roster. Going forward Griff would have to admit failure with the majority of his trades and move the guys he acquired in the past couple seasons. All the players he acquired are the ones we are talking about trading, Love, Frye, Shump, and Korver. JR might be the lone guy left from Griff's trades and it's open knowledge he had to be convinced to do it.

I believe Indiana could call Gilbert right now and offer a straight up Paul George for Tristan Thompson deal, and Gilbert would decline it based on player control....he's not giving away long term assets for a guy who could walk this off-season. It sounds asinine but I believe it to be true.....

 

[Ruken]

I believe Indiana could call Gilbert right now and offer a straight up Paul George for Tristan Thompson deal, and Gilbert would decline it based on player control....he's not giving away long term assets for a guy who could walk this off-season. It sounds asinine but I believe it to be true.....

I've seen this belief thrown around about Gilbert. Please point to any evidence you have thats this is the case.


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[inliner311]

I believe Indiana could call Gilbert right now and offer a straight up Paul George for Tristan Thompson deal, and Gilbert would decline it based on player control....he's not giving away long term assets for a guy who could walk this off-season. It sounds asinine but I believe it to be true.....

You might be right but I think long term control is what he wants for the star players on this team. Im not sure if TT has value in terms of a long term asset if we aren't a winning team. Getting off TT's contract would set us up better for the future in terms of cap space. I feel like TT might be the most easily replaceable player in our rotation with a minimum player(s).

 

[billmac91]

I've seen this belief thrown around about Gilbert. Please point to any evidence you have thats this is the case.


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There was a belief within their operations team that they were going to make a strong run at Paul George in the off-season.....once the finals were over Griffin was burning the phone lines looking to improve the team including dialogue with the Bulls and Pacers.

The statement about Griffin and Gilbert having different visions was 100% accurate. Somehow that statement to some people morphed into "different visions about how much Griffin should make"....well yes, Griff wanted more money, but Griff also knew he wasn't going to get approval on trading long-term assets for players on short term deals....Gilbert made it known he wanted to keep the core in-tact whereas Griffin didn't view our current roster as strong enough to overtake the Warriors....

And because of that Griffin didn't want to stake his GM reputation to standing pat this off-season. The pressure next year from the media would of been unbearable to deal with, since he in fact did want to make moves to become a better team even at the risk of watching it implode should LeBron/George/Butler walk when their contracts are up.

Gilbert believes should LeBron walk, which is a very real possibility, he can take that money and attract a free agent to CLE with the lure of Kyrie, Love, and to a lesser extent TT. He believes we can remain competitive in the East, and he can keep the value of his franchise at a respectable level. His biggest fear was giving up Love in a deal for a short-term asset that then walks leaving him with essentially Kyrie, who would then be eyeing the landscape of the NBA to leave.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

There was a belief within their operations team that they were going to make a strong run at Paul George in the off-season.....once the finals were over Griffin was burning the phone lines looking to improve the team including dialogue with the Bulls and Pacers.

The statement about Griffin and Gilbert having different visions was 100% accurate. Somehow that statement to some people morphed into "different visions about how much Griffin should make"....well yes, Griff wanted more money, but Griff also knew he wasn't going to get approval on trading long-term assets for players on short term deals....Gilbert made it known he wanted to keep the core in-tact whereas Griffin didn't view our current roster as strong enough to overtake the Warriors....

And because of that Griffin didn't want to stake his GM reputation to standing pat this off-season. The pressure next year from the media would of been unbearable to deal with, since he in fact did want to make moves to become a better team even at the risk of watching it implode should LeBron/George/Butler walk when their contracts are up.

Gilbert believes should LeBron walk, which is a very real possibility, he can take that money and attract a free agent to CLE with the lure of Kyrie, Love, and to a lesser extent TT. He believes we can remain competitive in the East, and he can keep the value of his franchise at a respectable level. His biggest fear was giving up Love in a deal for a short-term asset that then walks leaving him with essentially Kyrie, who would then be eyeing the landscape of the NBA to leave.

You've got one vivid imagination

 

[billmac91]

You've got one vivid imagination

Feel free to believe that....I stated after game 2 I was told the Cavs were already eyeing Paul George and to expect rumors of PG to CLE immediately after the finals....and within 48 hours of the finals ending, their were reports of Cavs and Indiana have preliminary discussions followed by PG leveraging the Pacers by saying he wouldn't re-sign in Indiana and he'd like to be in LA.

That situation was ideal to exploit, and Griffin was actively exploring it but liked the path of acquiring Butler more. Ultimately, he was made aware neither were going to happen...

After Griffin got fired the same person who mentioned PG rumors to CLE after the finals said the building was "really quiet and they didn't believe any of the media reports about CLE actively being in trade discussions".

 

[sleepmaster]

There was a belief within their operations team that they were going to make a strong run at Paul George in the off-season.....once the finals were over Griffin was burning the phone lines looking to improve the team including dialogue with the Bulls and Pacers.

The statement about Griffin and Gilbert having different visions was 100% accurate. Somehow that statement to some people morphed into "different visions about how much Griffin should make"....well yes, Griff wanted more money, but Griff also knew he wasn't going to get approval on trading long-term assets for players on short term deals....Gilbert made it known he wanted to keep the core in-tact whereas Griffin didn't view our current roster as strong enough to overtake the Warriors....

And because of that Griffin didn't want to stake his GM reputation to standing pat this off-season. The pressure next year from the media would of been unbearable to deal with, since he in fact did want to make moves to become a better team even at the risk of watching it implode should LeBron/George/Butler walk when their contracts are up.

Gilbert believes should LeBron walk, which is a very real possibility, he can take that money and attract a free agent to CLE with the lure of Kyrie, Love, and to a lesser extent TT. He believes we can remain competitive in the East, and he can keep the value of his franchise at a respectable level. His biggest fear was giving up Love in a deal for a short-term asset that then walks leaving him with essentially Kyrie, who would then be eyeing the landscape of the NBA to leave.

I can understand Griffin's position and think a Lebron-George-Kyrie Big 3 is a no-mans land in that it is better than Lebron-Love-Kyrie but not enough to beat the Warriors. You need a Big 4 to compete with the Warriors and to make sure you keep Lebron here. It's harder to get a Big 4 once you've used up your best trade trip in Kevin Love. That's why it's better to combine the George and Melo trades.

 

[sleepmaster]

I mean Gilbert's position...

 

[Rich]

We did win a championship but we strapped ourselves to be only able to win one and that's it. I am not saying we didn't, but what I am saying is some of the moves we made essentially made it impossible to keep winning championships since we have no way to acquire the assets to beat the warriors with their current team. We are short a player and honestly no way to acquire that player since we have older players/no draft picks.

Celtics have a much better head coach without a doubt and aren't worried about pleasing one guy. We are only trying to please LeBrons interests and that doesn't always mean getting the best players/moves for the future plus the present. We keep doing the moves like the Nets did for Garnet and Pierce and it doesn't mean it actually upgrades our team. This is just my opinion, but when you build an organization, you have to find a way to always bring in young talent with the veterans and we didn't do that.

Incredible.

We have no way to beat the Warriors because the Warriors had the two time MVP on a 12 million a year contract and were in a position to add Durant when the cap jumped 20 million. Explain how we were supposed to, under any circumstances, match that.

It would have required doing things like not keep Tristan, not keeping Shumpert.

Of course, we then dont win a title last year so....

 

[sportscoach]

Incredible.

We have no way to beat the Warriors because the Warriors had the two time MVP on a 12 million a year contract and were in a position to add Durant when the cap jumped 20 million. Explain how we were supposed to, under any circumstances, match that.

It would have required doing things like not keep Tristan, not keeping Shumpert.

Of course, we then dont win a title last year so....

I am not saying we don't keep TT and Shumpert, I am saying I just don't like how we have no way to add more talent since we have no draft picks. The first time we had LeBron we ended up doing the same thing and it gave us no flexibility what so ever (and it didn't help we didn't do well drafting either when we did).

Is moving a Love for a George or Anthony really going to help us to beat the warriors? Is moving TT/Shumpert going to net us much?

Part of me would have not used the assets we did for Love to begin with the first time since we have to trade off a bunch of guys to net Love. Luckily then again most of the guys we traded weren't all that good, but we ended up trading any draft pick we had away outside of Osman since 2014. Sorry it's not exactly how I would love to run an organization, but just my opinion. I also wouldn't have hired Mike Brown either that first season either since he sucked as a head coach.

 

[Dupp]

I know its too late and most people would disagree but i would have liked to try turn kyrie into butler and beverly.

bev
butler
lebron
love
TT

That is a very nasty defensive team

 

[MarkyCavs88]

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/CavsNationNet/status/879278240564736000?p=v

 

[NMCav]

I know its too late and most people would disagree but i would have liked to try turn kyrie into butler and beverly.

bev
butler
lebron
love
TT

That is a very nasty defensive team

Butler already traded to Wolves who are keeping him

 

[Dupp]

Butler already traded to Wolves who are keeping him

yes

 

[sailfish]

I know its too late and most people would disagree but i would have liked to try turn kyrie into butler and beverly.

bev
butler
lebron
love
TT

That is a very nasty defensive team

You don't trade Kyrie unless it's for a comparable young star, like a Porzingis. Then you have to find someone to take his spot that can capably run the team. Eric Bledsoe is a guy that has been available and who the Suns are apparently motivated to move.