#52 DeShone Kizer

Hmm, nothing in here about Kizer (it seems all the Kizer talk is in other threads and this thread talks about everything but Kizer).

I was disappointed in Kizer's performances the last 2 weeks after being very hopeful after week 1. The migraine thing will always be a worry now and I'll always wonder if it could be a factor in him having a bad game, a bad half, a bad quarter, or a bad play. If it is something that makes it harder for him to focus it's a problem. Now hopefully I'm wrong and he has it completely under control, and it in no way affects his game. I really hope that's the case but as I've said before I'm kind of ignorant on this subject compared to people who have dealt with it so IDK.

Regardless of any underlying issues like potential headaches or vision problems... I thought Kizer's accuracy was mediocre at best yesterday. He hit a few nice throws but he was off target on at least half his throws, sometimes by a few feet and some were worse. Is this who he is, or will he get better? IDK (yet) but we'll need to figure that out by the end of the season.

Kizer still holds the ball WAY too long. Is our route tree so screwed up that Kizer seemingly has nobody to throw to for 6 and 7 seconds, or is he just missing his opportunities? Maybe someone with the time to review the all-22 replays can answer that.

It did seem like Kizer was comfortable in changing plays at the LOS and he seemed to make some good decisions there so that's encouraging. Kizer did show some good flashes here and there and we can only hope he builds on that and minimizes his mistakes as the baseline for who he is as a QB.

At this point it could go either way with this guy. He does add a lot with his legs no matter how he ultimately turns out as a passer, so there's that.

He is still young and has some pretty bad habits that can create inaccurate throws. He needs to get his base set up to be consistent.

Again, he is 21. Dude is nearly 4 years younger than Wentz. He needs time. We may not see a real improvement until later in the year.

Hue invested in this process. This is how you make the sausage, so to speak.

buzzdog said:

Hmm, nothing in here about Kizer (it seems all the Kizer talk is in other threads and this thread talks about everything but Kizer).

I was disappointed in Kizer's performances the last 2 weeks after being very hopeful after week 1. The migraine thing will always be a worry now and I'll always wonder if it could be a factor in him having a bad game, a bad half, a bad quarter, or a bad play. If it is something that makes it harder for him to focus it's a problem. Now hopefully I'm wrong and he has it completely under control, and it in no way affects his game. I really hope that's the case but as I've said before I'm kind of ignorant on this subject compared to people who have dealt with it so IDK.

Regardless of any underlying issues like potential headaches or vision problems... I thought Kizer's accuracy was mediocre at best yesterday. He hit a few nice throws but he was off target on at least half his throws, sometimes by a few feet and some were worse. Is this who he is, or will he get better? IDK (yet) but we'll need to figure that out by the end of the season.

Kizer still holds the ball WAY too long. Is our route tree so screwed up that Kizer seemingly has nobody to throw to for 6 and 7 seconds, or is he just missing his opportunities? Maybe someone with the time to review the all-22 replays can answer that.

It did seem like Kizer was comfortable in changing plays at the LOS and he seemed to make some good decisions there so that's encouraging. Kizer did show some good flashes here and there and we can only hope he builds on that and minimizes his mistakes as the baseline for who he is as a QB.

At this point it could go either way with this guy. He does add a lot with his legs no matter how he ultimately turns out as a passer, so there's that.

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Damnit. I really didn't want to have to do this because I know everyone is going to make fun of me taking on the role of residential medical expert

but I have suffered from migraines for years so I will give my perspective. For the love of God everyone please note this is anecdotal experience and his migraines could obviously be more or less severe than mine

But when I said suffer from I chose that word thoughtfully. My migraines are the single worst source of pain I've ever had in my life. I get them a few times a year and they are the worst days of the year bar none. The pain is unlike anything I've ever felt and there is literally no way to relieve it. I get an indescribable pressure in the back of my eyes to the point where they feel like they are going to pop out of my God damned head, I throw up, and I try like hell to fall asleep because that's usually the only thing that helps is waking up better. But it's almost impossible to fall asleep because of the mind numbing pain.

The thought of playing football while that is going on for me is just terrifying. I can't even go to work at a fucking desk job when it happens. Any amount of noise drives me mad and I need to stay the fuck away from the light.

That said my whole ordeal usually lasts from 2-4 hours. But a migraine for me is significantly different than a normal headache. I wouldn't worry about him playing through one and doing poorly because I genuinely just don't believe he could if it was as bad as a severe migraine could be. Literally every time I get a migraine I throw up. They are fucking brutal.

I also went on a medicine for it that greatly reduces the frequency. Went from a few times a month to maybe once or twice a year now. But I almost wish migraine wasn't even associated with the word headache because I think it downplays how severe one can be. I have never felt pain like a migraine.

buzzdog said:

Kizer still holds the ball WAY too long. Is our route tree so screwed up that Kizer seemingly has nobody to throw to for 6 and 7 seconds, or is he just missing his opportunities? Maybe someone with the time to review the all-22 replays can answer that.

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It's a mixture of holding on to the ball a little too long, taking a split second too log to come off his initial read and having zero skill players (beyond Duke) who can get open and do something.

I think DK would look a lot better with an actual #1 wideout to throw to (captain obvious). Given how bad our wideouts are, he doesn't get a ton of "easy" throws. He almost always needs to fit it in to a small window and he's never been a really high percentage thrower. Throw in all the drops and you get sub par stuff.

Through 3 games, receivers have dropped 7-10 passes. Several of the drops or tips have led to INT's. Kizer certainly needs to be better but it's really hard for me to judge him with the miserable collection of pass catchers he has at his disposal.

He has enough talent to build around. I think the best judge will be how he plays in the second half of the season. After 7-8 NFL games, you should start to see things slow down for him. If he regresses or gets markedly worse in the second half, that would be a red flag for me. The mark of a good young QB is being able to adjust once tape is out there of you. We'll see if DK can.

Sounds more like a cluster headache. I have had them for years too.

I'mWithDan said:

It's a mixture of holding on to the ball a little too long, taking a split second to log to come off his initial read and having zero skill players (beyond Duke) who can get open and do something.

I think DK would look a lot better with an actual #1 wideout to throw to (captain obvious). Given how bad our wideouts are, he doesn't get a ton of "easy" throws. He almost always needs to fit it in to a small window and he's never been a really high percentage thrower. Throw in all the drops and you get sub par stuff.

Through 3 games, receivers have dropped 7-10 passes. Several of the drops or tips have led to INT's. Kizer certainly needs to be better but it's really hard for me to judge him with the miserable collection of pass catchers he has at his disposal.

He has enough talent to build around. I think the best judge will be how he plays in the second half of the season. After 7-8 NFL games, you should start to see things slow down for him. If he regresses or gets markedly worse in the second half, that would be a red flag for me. The mark of a good young QB is being able to adjust once tape is out there of you. We'll see if DK can.

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There were 8 recorded drops in the Indy game. 8! And 4 bone-headed offensive pass interference penalties which negated big gains.
Yes, DeShone is learning. Yes, he's making some rookie mistakes with some head-scratching throws.

He's also showing some amazing flashes and beautiful throws. He's getting absolutely no help. I like him--I think he's the perfect type of quarterback to move forward with. He just needs weapons. We need to draft well, and we need to use some serious amounts of our moldy money on skill position players in this offseason.

thedarkness2332 said:

There were 8 recorded drops in the Indy game. 8! And 4 bone-headed offensive pass interference penalties which negated big gains.
Yes, DeShone is learning. Yes, he's making some rookie mistakes with some head-scratching throws.

He's also showing some amazing flashes and beautiful throws. He's getting absolutely no help. I like him--I think he's the perfect type of quarterback to move forward with. He just needs weapons. We need to draft well, and we need to use some serious amounts of our moldy money on skill position players in this offseason.

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Yeah, part of the holding on to the ball can likely be attributed to him feeling like he needs to wait to see if the guy can get open. If you have a true #1 guy, a QB can get to his second read a lot quicker, because he has confidence that if his #1 guy isn't immediately winning (like he should), he's going to be covered.

With our lousy collection of wideouts, I'm not sure Kizer has the type of confidence to move off his mediocre 1st option, to see if his mediocre 2nd option is by some miracle open.

I don't know what the market is for veteran receivers but I'd strongly consider moving a pick for one at this point. I think this receiving core will be really detrimental to his development. I don't want to waste draft assets but Kizer just has absolutely no one to lean on and as a result, is having some bad habits reinforced.

I'mWithDan said:

Yeah, part of the holding on to the ball can likely be attributed to him feeling like he needs to wait to see if the guy can get open. If you have a true #1 guy, a QB can get to his second read a lot quicker, because he has confidence that if his #1 guy isn't immediately winning (like he should), he's going to be covered.

With our lousy collection of wideouts, I'm not sure Kizer has the type of confidence to move off his mediocre 1st option, to see if his mediocre 2nd option is by some miracle open.

I don't know what the market is for veteran receivers but I'd strongly consider moving a pick for one at this point. I think this receiving core will be really detrimental to his development. I don't want to waste draft assets but Kizer just has absolutely no one to lean on and as a result, is having some bad habits reinforced.

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Absolutely. He's holding the ball, and it needs to come out. Or, he needs to take-off. However, a big part of me is proud of him as a rookie for not looking to run. We know he can do that. He's trying to win from the pocket, and he's willing to hang in there. That can't always be taught--many young quarterbacks get those nervous happy feet and stop looking downfield as the rush closes in. I give him credit for trying to work through his progressions and move around within the pocket.

Watching the game again, I can see guys finally getting a step right when he's about to be sacked. The poor guy is giving this underwhelming crew every opportunity to succeed. He's trying. I've even seen him throw guys open in the first few games with amazing throws--something that is a tough transition from college to the NFL. So, yes, he's holding on too long and needs to abandon ship more quickly. However, I think if a rookie is gonna have flaws (they all do), these are exactly what I'd want them to be. These can be improved as our supporting cast improves.

He has other attributes that you are just born with. Unfortunately, I don't know how much better it's gonna get this season without Corey Coleman in the fold.

Amherstcavsfan said:

He is still young and has some pretty bad habits that can create inaccurate throws. He needs to get his base set up to be consistent.

Again, he is 21. Dude is nearly 4 years younger than Wentz. He needs time. We may not see a real improvement until later in the year.

Hue invested in this process. This is how you make the sausage, so to speak.

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There is nothing you said that is wrong, but Kizer has looked better to me than expected. The amount of drops and penalties from the WR group would be impossible for almost any QB to over come much less a rookie.

Kizer has been wildly inconsistent and has made his fair share of mistakes. He often looks like a rookie that no one expected to be starting this year.

Kizer has also had some bonafide wow throws. He has already proven to me he can make all the NFL throws we need. He has soft touch on the deep ball but also can rifle it in tight coverage. I just wish he had some surefire NFL talent to throw too.

Another thing that is being overlooked is that Browns are quietly #11 in the league in 4th quarter scoring -- mostly due to Kizer.

Regarding the 4th quarter scoring, I understand that defenses with a lead sometimes play more conservatively late which could be a contributing factor...

But in the 4th quarter we also run a hurry up style of offense to preserve clock and Kizer looks pretty damn good. Maybe with the lack of skill position talent we would benefit from a faster pace offensively in the interim. Seems like Kizer can handle it at least in spurts.

I like Kizer.

But I am concerned about his accuracy. The "wow" throws seem to come less often as the just plain inaccurate ones, which makes me think the "wow" throws are just margin of error variation.

Not locking on receivers, not seeing guys that were actually open, and holding on to the ball for too long are things are areas where he is progressing.

Just starting to have really questions about his base accuracy.

The Human Q-Tip said:

I like Kizer.

But I am concerned about his accuracy. The "wow" throws seem to come less often as the just plain inaccurate ones, which makes me think the "wow" throws are just margin of error variation.

Not locking on receivers, not seeing guys that were actually open, and holding on to the ball for too long are things are areas where he is progressing.

Just starting to have really questions about his base accuracy.

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His accuracy is at 54% with a ton of drops. Give him 4 more completions a game, and he is at 64%.

I was worried about his accuracy too, but the eye test and numbers tell me its fine if we can stop the drops.

His interceptions are a combo between bad decisions and 2 balls that should of been caught. He doesn't do the over the receiver float it into the safety interceptions that hound inaccurate QB's. He will come around.

Lee said:

His accuracy is at 54% with a ton of drops. Give him 4 more completions a game, and he is at 64%.

I was worried about his accuracy too, but the eye test and numbers tell me its fine if we can stop the drops.

His interceptions are a combo between bad decisions and 2 balls that should of been caught. He doesn't do the over the receiver float it into the safety interceptions that hound inaccurate QB's. He will come around.

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How many int werent his fault?

David. said:

How many int werent his fault?

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2 in my opinion.

But you have to add in a fumble, clearly his fault for holding the ball to long and carelessly.

The other 5 were all bad decisions. After his first game of getting sacked a ton, he has stepped up his pace in the pocket, but he needs to learn to throw the ball away. It will come with time. 3 games, not much to learn off of yet.