Potential 2019 Head coaches for the Browns

The Voice said:

This is like saying I’d rather have herpes then HIV. You still have a horrible STD, just not as bad.

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To be fair, this exact thing can be said regarding your statements comparing Harbaugh to the previous coaches at Michigan lol.

The Wizard of Moz said:

@Randolphkeys can help here

Also Singletary would’ve had the same damn success there if he didn’t get fired right after the dark years there where they accumulated all that talent

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There is a lot of blame to go around for the collapse of the Niners. #1 is Trent Baalke, who took aim at power within the organization and started spats with everyone. Harbaugh is definitely a big part of the collapse as well. I heard Ted Robinson, the Bay Area equivalent of Jim Donovan, relate stories around the Super Bowl preparation. Harbaugh reportedly lost the team leading up to the championship, but Robinson didn't get into specifics. Looking back to the conversation I had with one of his former Stanford assistant coaches a few years prior, a lot of criticisms started matching up. If Hue's two-faced style wore on you as a fan, Jim Harbaugh is unfortunately more of the same. Trust me, I was on the wrong side on this one for a while there and I just got to the point where the feedback I was hearing was too consistent.

MoFlo said:

To be fair, this exact thing can be said regarding your statements comparing Harbaugh to the previous coaches at Michigan lol.

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Except you guys have tOSU bias. If you ask around non rival teams fans if he’s a good coach or not, the answer will be a resounding yes and it’s not even close.

The Human Q-Tip said:

The last time Gregg was a head coach was most than 15 years ago. You don't think a guy can grow/mature between the ages of 45 and 60? In terms of his demeanor as a coordinator, that's a different role. And lots of people in leadership positions may deliberately adjust their style depending upon the role in which they are serving. I haven't seen any sign -- at all -- of clownishness since he took over as head coach.

Now, maybe it's there behind the scenes and we can't see it, so I'm not saying that Williams is or should be the choice. I'm simply pointing to our lack of knowledge regarding his behavior, and how we're not really in a position to know for sure either way.



Dude...we're not there in the locker room. How do you know what vibe he's giving off as head coach? I'll admit that I don't either, but that's why I'm not saying he should/should not be hired. I'm simply saying we don't know enough to exclude him.



Riley may be the choice, but he comes with the standard risk that he may be a guy whose ability to be a head coach -- not just an offensive coordinator -in the NFL isn't there yet. He's only 35, and leading college players is different from leading veteran pros. He wouldn't be the first college coach whose abilities didn't translate well to an NFL head coaching position.

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I ask you this, then.... what in these 3 final games can he do to change who he’s been in the league for over 30 years of coaching?

We know who he is. What he is isn’t good enough to be our HC at this pivotal hire. It’s glaringly obvious.

We can’t afford to mess this one up.

We are one of the best jobs in the league. We have choices. We’re ready to explode.

You don’t settle for Gregg Williams.

I’d argue he hasn’t even been a good enough coordinator these past two seasons to keep his job in that area. Let alone a HC gig.

And by arguing you can’t “rule him out” that is essentially arguing in favor of him.

Bill Belichick.

thedarkness2332 said:

I ask you this, then.... what in these 3 final games can he do to change who he’s been in the league for over 30 years of coaching?

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He's already not who he has been for over 30 years of coaching because he's a head coach, not a position coach or coordinator. The last time he was a head coach was 15 years ago. So, to answer the question, I'd say that if keeps the same demeanor he's had since taking over for the rest of the season, he's pretty much demonstrated he's grown/matured since then, at least with respect to what us fans can judge. Beyond that...we just don't know.

What I don't get about this is that while you've been arguing "people don't change", you've also pimped Josh McDaniels for the HC position here. He was an absolute train wreck as a head coach, and that was much more recently. Why assume he has changed?

We know who he is.

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No, "we" really don't. Dorsey probably does, and other people within the organization probably do, but we don't.

And by arguing you can’t “rule him out” that is essentially arguing in favor of him.

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No, it's nothing of the sort. I'm saying that we -- the fans -- can't rule him out because we lack the necessary knowledge. The corollary is that we also lack the necessary knowledge to say that he is the best choice. Just as we also lack the knowledge to know that Lincoln Riley, Matt Campbell, Bruce Arians, or Josh McDaniels is the best choice to coach this team. There is simply too much shit that will come down to what they tell Dorsey is their vision for this team, and how Dorsey judges their ability to relate to/motivate our players, for us to be able to make those predictions.

I honestly don't get this. You've never had a single conversation with the guy...with any of them. You can't see anything that happens behind the scenes, what each of them is like when the cameras aren't around, etc.. How can you be so certain in your opinions?

The Voice said:

Except you guys have tOSU bias. If you ask around non rival teams fans if he’s a good coach or not, the answer will be a resounding yes and it’s not even close.

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Sweet dude. I strive to be as objective as you and non rival team fans. One day I hope to reach this higher plane of thinking

The Voice said:

Except you guys have tOSU bias. If you ask around non rival teams fans if he’s a good coach or not, the answer will be a resounding yes and it’s not even close.

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Ask those non biased fans about his ability to win big games and championships.

I’d be curious to know their thoughts, without bias of course.

The Voice said:

Except you guys have tOSU bias. If you ask around non rival teams fans if he’s a good coach or not, the answer will be a resounding yes and it’s not even close.

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Go ahead and pose the question then...r/CFB should do...

The Human Q-Tip said:

He's already not who he has been for over 30 years of coaching because he's a head coach, not a position coach or coordinator. The last time he was a head coach was 15 years ago. So, to answer the question, I'd say that if keeps the same demeanor he's had since taking over for the rest of the season, he's pretty much demonstrated he's grown/matured since then, at least with respect to what us fans can judge. Beyond that...we just don't know.

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To me, being a head coach versus being a coordinator doesn't change who the man is. I respect greatly what he's done on an interim basis for this team. However, that doesn't mean that I think he's some sort of good head coaching candidate all of the sudden simply because he's toned it down for a few weeks and is following an all-time terrible head coach in Hue Jackson.

I have long maintained that I want an offensive mind as our head coach who can saddle in with our QB, Baker Mayfield. I see what Nagy had done for Chicago, McVay for LA, Reid for KC, Pederson for Philly, how Shanahan had Jimmy G rolling, Reich for Luck.... I think that's where the NFL is headed.

I also think that Gregg isn't even a good defensive coordinator. Being an average NFL head coach on an interim basis does not mean we should attach our wagon to him for 4 more years.

The Human Q-Tip said:

What I don't get about this is that while you've been arguing "people don't change", you've also pimped Josh McDaniels for the HC position here. He was an absolute train wreck as a head coach, and that was much more recently. Why assume he has changed?

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This is an excellent point, and I applaud you for bringing this up.

However, I have supported Josh McDaniels because he fits exactly what I want in a head coach in terms of offensive background. Innovative offensive coordinator who has literally changed the game with his use of personnel and college concepts.

I understand the flags with him, believe me, I do. However, I try to explain his personality issues off as being a 34 year old head coach trying to get veteran coordinators and players to respect his decision-making--he went over the top. I agree that this is going to have to be something that gets vetted by Dorsey. As you say, we have no way of knowing. He's not the "perfect" candidate based on this cloud.

However, when supporting him, my general hope is that now that he's in his 40's and after the first failure, he's better prepared for the next go-round. He was a young coordinator then, trying to make his way and get staff and players to buy-in. He did, after all, beat Pittsburgh in a playoff game with Tebow as his quarterback. He certainly would be much more comfortable in his own skin now that he's established.

Matter-of-fact, I like what he could build around Mayfield. Simple as that. Personality-wise, that is something that'd I'd have to trust Dorsey on--as you've said.

In terms of Williams, I have enough other things to go off of that are performance and philosophy based that I don't even need to get to the step of allowing Dorsey to determine long-term personality fit.

Either way, I never said that McDaniels is my top candidate. I, like you are now with Williams, was making arguments that this board should not write him off.

The Human Q-Tip said:

You can't see anything that happens behind the scenes, what each of them is like when the cameras aren't around, etc.. How can you be so certain in your opinions?

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I mean, that's why we argue the opinions, right?

You're as entitled to yours as I am mine. In my opinion, with where I want this team headed, I want an innovative offensive mind running my football team. Simply put, a different HC with an innovative offensive coordinator is subject to losing said OC quickly to a vacant head coaching gig.

I want to set us up for the long haul.

The Voice said:

Except you guys have tOSU bias. If you ask around non rival teams fans if he’s a good coach or not, the answer will be a resounding yes and it’s not even close.

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I think Jim Harbaugh is a top 5 coach


















In the B1G East

This sums things up pretty well, IMO:

View: https://twitter.com/BrendanLeister/status/1072232582945890309?s=19


View: https://twitter.com/BrendanLeister/status/1072232866409521152?s=19

Baltimore Harbaugh is probably not happening now...unless they completely collapse.
They probably have a shot at stumbling into the playoffs if Pittsburgh continues to stumble.

MirORich said:

Are you forgetting things specific to this game like 10 of the Panthers points being due to extremely short field as the result of careless Browns fumbles?

Are you forgetting things specific to the season like injuries to Kirksey, Shobert, Gaines, and Mitchell? The Mychal Kendricks situation.

Do you give 100% of the credit for the Browns being top2 in the league in takeaways to the players only?

Are you forgetting the Browns D holding teams like PIT and NO well below their season average or even in the game against KC, basically giving up KCs avg points per game?

None of this means Gregg is the right man for head coach job long term or not, but if your takeaway after 13 games is that Williams defense and coaching sucks, well then that is just a really poor quality take.

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His defense does suck and has under performed statistically all year.

Lets face facts. This is Williams second year here and this defense is ranked in the bottom 5/10 in most defensive statistics:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2018/opp.htm

Besides forcing turnovers, what's your argument to keep this guy? He has talented pass rushers in Myles, Ogunjobi, and Avery. The secondary is thin, but has enough talent with Randall, Peppers, Ward, and Kindred to be at least average. And yet, the Browns give up the 2nd most passing yards.

I can understand the Browns being bad against the run (which they are). But I can't understand them having the 5th most defensive penalties.

And none of those injuries, outside of Schobert, have been significant enough to give him the benefit of the doubt. Kirksey has been invisible and EJ Gaines is a depth piece. Sure, Mitchell is your second best corner, but a defense is not going to crumble because your 2nd best corner is injured.

The defense is Gregg's specialty or rather it should be. It's ridiculous to ignore that part of the field when judging his performance as a head coach.

Kitchens and Baker are carrying him into a head coaching position that he does not deserve. The guy is barely competent

I think the crowd who is starting to get the itch to keep Gregg Williams really doesn’t want to keep Gregg necessarily...

...it’s Freddie they want to keep.

And that’s fine. He’s ignited an offense that we haven’t seen in a long, long time.

He has also mixed perfectly with Baker’s personality and sense of humor. Hell, he mixes perfectly with Cleveland, too.

But if that’s the case and we win out... just give Freddie the damn interview.

The truth is, Gregg’s defense has underperformed. There’s no reason that he needs to stay.

Let Freddie bring in Todd Bowles to be his DC, assistant HC, and leave it at that if that’s what you want to do.

Despite being an OC for half of a season, I could get behind that more easily than locking up Gregg Williams.

And if you believe you have a diamond in Freddie but he’s not quite ready for that jump, that’s where Arians comes into play.

Even if it wasn’t Cleveland, if Bruce was coming back into coaching, I believe Kitchens was likely to be tabbed to be his OC anyway. So, that’s not a “forced marriage” situation. They were already married.