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2018 Cleveland Browns Off Season Thread

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Real Deal said:
I understand we hate Peppers, but let's have a little hope. I'm fucking sick of our 1st round picks going to shit.
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No Njoking!

I do have interest in following how NFL teams deal with college "Rover" players. There are a lot of guys coming out of the college game in Peppers situation where they didn't really have a defined NFL defensive position. Sometimes they adapt, sometimes they are tweeners.
 
All this bullshit about Allen, here are the guys I'd target across the different scenarios over the first round.

First Selection:

1. Josh Rosen
2. Sam Darnold

Rosen has proven to be ahead of Darnold in terms of NFL-readiness, I don't think this is much in question.

The old adage that you have two guys who run to first with the same time, one guy has poor form and one guy has great form, so you take the guy with poor form because if you teach him the right form he'll be better.

While I respect that, I don't think that's how the NFL works all the time. Rosen has the mental acuity and processing ability that we've seen from some other high-level guys like Rodgers, Brees, etc. Any talk about not putting football first is nonsensical, and he should be the pick at 1.

With that said, Darnold in any other year is still a guy who will go pretty high based on his ceiling, even if he isn't quite ready.



Fourth Selection:

1. Trade Down
2. Bradley Chubb

Aside from the QBs, there is no player in this draft who:
1. Is the best player available
2. Fills a major need for the team

Bradley Chubb is the closest thing to meeting both criteria. In today's NFL, you have to get to the QB. A mix of Gregg Williams heinous play-calling and ineffective pass rushers saw the Browns have one of the least effective blitz and pass-rush success rates in football.

Chubb is good enough to rectify that issue, while being large enough and tough enough against the run to make sense opposite Garrett.

The best option, IMO, is to trade down and force one of the teams in desperate need for a QB or Barkley (Tampa) to move up and get their guy.



Trade Down Options:

7. Tampa Bay Buccaneers

The Browns have made their love of Saquon known, and now that Tampa is a relative RB graveyard, they're a prime candidate to move up for Barkley. Browns could pick up an extra 3 to move down to 7.

11. Miami
12. Buffalo
15. Arizona

All three could be the team to move up for Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson. It's my belief that Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield go 1-3 in some order. These three teams would be wise to move up and secure their guy. The cost for 4, with three QBs off the board, will likely be a 2 with another pick in 2019.



Targets in Trade Down:

1. Denzel Ward - CB - Ohio State
2. Mike McGlinchey - OT - Notre Dame
3. Maurice Hurst DT - Michigan

Dorsey has always valued an elite, lockdown CB with man cover skills. This also is in line with Gregg Williams preference, making Ward the best possible target in a trade down scenario. Almost certainly will be available at 7, maybe 11-12 also. A much better option as a man defender than Josh Jackson, who would be far better served in a zone/Cover 3 environment in which he thrived at Iowa.

McGlinchey gets slept on, but he's a borderline elite LT in the Taylor Decker mold who could immediately step in as the starter and anchor for your line. He's not Joe Thomas, but he's going to be a very good player in this league for a long time.

Hurst is simply one of the best interior defenders to enter the draft in the last few years. He's an impossible assignment for one player, and his pass-rush ability sets him apart as someone who could fit perfectly into this scheme freeing up the defensive ends.



Will get into the Day 2 tomorrow.
 
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Any word on a Duke Johnson extension?
 
Man, Joe's fiance is a smokeshow.
 
This was linked in a twitter thread and found it at least interesting. I have no idea if there's even a shred of validity to it, but anything that lets me believe that Allen is not #1...I'll cling to that and hope it's true!

have some terrible news to inform everyone.

It looks like we really will be passing on Darnold....

THIS IS NOT SOME STUPID TROLL, or me doing the reverse psychology thing saying Baker's going first while secretly feeling giddy and knowing we're taking Darnold at 1 as a way to cope with the possibility the Browns might screw this up.

(Skip to The News below if u must)

As I've said before, my brother in law was a scout & personnel assistant exec for 11 years. I never ID'd his team when he was employed but he was canned in the mass firings when Mr. Reese and co. were fired from the Giants.

Although I'm often wrong about my own predictions, my b.o i. always cautioned me that what he'd tell me in terms of rumors has a chance of being misinformation put out by other teams to hide their true intentions. However, the vast majority of things he told me that I posted on this forum came true.

For example, for those people that actually paid attention to my posts on the old forum before last year's draft, you'd remember that based on what my b.o.i. heard at the combine I posted "the Bears will look to trade up for Trubisky with either the Browns at 1 or San Fran at 2." At the time, only 3 people responded to that post.

I also posted that "Sashi Brown was seen twice via my b.o.i.'s team spycraft department, 1st with Rick Smith of the Texans, and 2nd with Ryan Pace of the Bears at a private membership only room at a Wine & Cigar lounge in Indy" and... "Dont be surprised if we trade one of our picks to the Bears or Texans." That post received 2 responses and came true regarding the draft.

Teams have 10s and even 100s of thousands of dollar budget for their "spycraft" depts that includes things you wouldnt even believe all in order to propel the interests of their million dollar cash cows.

One of the more basic ways for teams to get inside info is to recruit disgruntled "soon to be fired" scouts and personnel staffers away from another team while they are still employed and possibly privy to strategic information. ALL teams try to do this. The best and smartest teams top execs leave scouts & even key personnel staffers in the dark on real rankings and strategy for fear of info leaking out. The elite top execs only inform the owner & a select few before the draft. Smart top execs run disinformation campaigns and put up false rankings in plain view of scouts and staffers so the disinfo will leak to teams giving them an advantage to operate under the veil of confusion.

The News: My b.o.i. told me this morning "the scuttlebut is that 6 Browns scouts & 1 personnel exec have been "respectably" flipped (i.e., they already agreed to move on to a team without breaching the trust of their former employee) due to being promised future jobs & due to being disgruntled"...However, 2 scouts and 1 personnel exec has been "unhonorably flipped" (i.e., informing on the teams draft beliefs while still employed to another team) with 1 person in particular "lacking any sort of ethics and is singing like canary so much that the team he's giving the info to is secretly laughing their a**es off b/c they know there's no way in hell they're hiring this guy after all this."

Apparently, there is already a major rift between the offensive coaches & the top personnel execs regarding the pick at 1 and ranking the QBs. It's likely irreconcilable.

In what was a shocker to me as a "Darnold no matter" what guy Todd Haley, Ken Zampese, Hue Jackson, and Al Saunders (he's become a de facto QB scout) are united in the belief that Josh Rosen is their guy, clear cut by a wide margin. The combine interview only confirmed this and they are all in. They all agree that Sam Darnold is their number 2, but there are some disagreements between the coaches on who is 3rd as some say Baker Mayfield while others surprisingly say Lamar Jackson. All the coaches apparently have Josh Allen 5th which completely surprised me.

The only personnel execs that mostly agree with the coaches are Eliot Wolf & Andrew Berry with Wolf having Darnold as QB1 and AB having had Darnold at 1 precombine but put Rosen ahead at 1 after the interview as Darnold tanked the interview and had no presence on the white board (I'd say did Mariota or Eli have a presence? Did Favre do a great job with X&Os on the board? No... but I digress..)

The rest of the top personnel staff (John Dorsey, Scot McCloughan--yes he's a top staffer more on that in a bit, and Alonzo Highsmith) along with Paul DePodesta have Baker Mayfield as their clear cut leader by a wide margin. The personnel guys then have Josh Allen number 2! Followed by Sam Darnold at 3 and Josh Rosen at 4. Paul DePo supposedly has it Baker, Rosen, Darnold, Jackson, & Allen.

Complicating the matter is apparently Scot McCloughan has come in waving a big stick as a former GM like he's the de facto top personnel guy when John Dorsey isnt around. He pulls his "when i was GM" card out in every debate. He is not consulting with other teams as that was just a farce to buy him time to finish some past due work that he and his company owed some teams for purchasing their scouting services. He is a full time Browns employee. This has in particular caused friction with Eliot Wolf as he thought he'd have that "right hand man assistant GM" role and it seems that Scot will have a powerful permanent position after the draft unless something changes and problems can be worked out.

Right now, John Dorsey is supposedly selling Jimmy that Baker is the top prospect as identified by Analytics and Traditional Scouting methodology with Paul DePo in his corner. Dorsey and Scot were blown away by Baker's combine interview while coaches thought he was too defensive.

As a temporary compromise just to keep the peace while much draft work is still to be done, the coaches and personnel execs are now strongly discussing that they will take their number 1 player on the big board Bradley Chubb at #1 overall and their QB at 4. Which to me makes ABSOLUTELY NO FU**ING sense at all when we need a QB.....but again I digress...

Distraught on Skype I immediately asked my b.o.i. " if this was all a joke" and "how certain are you that this isnt just elegant disinformation on the Browns part"?

He told me it's absolutely not a joke and the same spycraft dept heads (some of the best in the business) that he trusted in NY all those years have the Giants new personnel staff convinced that it is real enough to the point where everyone on the Giants staff except for new GM Dave Gettleman and an assistant staffer are operating as if it's true and they'll have their pick of all the QBs at 2 or at worst Baker Mayfield will go 1.

I've jokingly been saying Baker would go 1 but secretly believed Hue and co AND Dorsey all loved Sam Darnold at 1. I never even considered the thought that Josh Rosen wouldve been the unanimous selection among the coaches.

My only hope now is that some compromise is struck and we go Chubb at 1 and Rosen makes it to 4 based on the personality thing, or Hue and the coaches win out and we take Rosen at 1 to guarantee we get our QB, or that meathead Dorsey is running the most sophisticated 4D chess misinformation game utilizing scouts, coaches, and personnel people as pawns to fool the scouting community. I'll hold my breath on the latter.

Say goodbye to Darnold for real my friends. He's the hero we deserved...I'll never stop believing that based on the tape review. It just really sucks...

I'm now going to watch Rosen again and try to 1. convince myself I like him more than Darnold and 2. Somehow the coaches desires win out...wish me luck..

Oh...P.S. I hate-love (more hate than anything) this sh** team with all my heart..
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Hurl Bruce said:
This this linked in a twitter thread and found it at least interesting. I have no idea if there's even a shred of validity to it, but anything that lets me believe that Allen is not #1...I'll cling to that and hope it's true!
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So, this isn’t something I would be apt to trust, but if it had any truth to it, we’re saying that our personnel team is filled with leaks and terrible people.

We have division, jealousy, and a rift before we’ve even made it to our first draft. Awesome.

And couldn’t even be further away from each other in evaluations. Let’s summarize:

Hue, Haley, Zampese, Saunders, Wolf, Berry:
1) Rosen
2) Darnold
3) Mayfield
4) Jackson
5) Allen

Dorsey, Highsmith, McCloughan:
1) Mayfield
2) Allen
3) Darnold
4) Rosen

DePodesta and Analytics team:
1) Mayfield
2) Rosen
3) Darnold
4) Jackson
5) Allen

It’s likely that this dude is a liar or is at least given largely false information. However, it’s not hard to believe that a bunch of stong-minded people are fighting.

If it did happen to somehow be true that they are still arguing amongst themselves on the QB’s, hopefully they read these boards. We clearly have it down to a top 2 consensus. :chuckle:
 
AZ_ said:
All this bullshit about Allen, here are the guys I'd target across the different scenarios over the first round.

First Selection:

1. Josh Rosen
2. Sam Darnold

Rosen has proven to be ahead of Darnold in terms of NFL-readiness, I don't think this is much in question.

The old adage that you have two guys who run to first with the same time, one guy has poor form and one guy has great form, so you take the guy with poor form because if you teach him the right form he'll be better.

While I respect that, I don't think that's how the NFL works all the time. Rosen has the mental acuity and processing ability that we've seen from some other high-level guys like Rodgers, Brees, etc. Any talk about not putting football first is nonsensical, and he should be the pick at 1.

With that said, Darnold in any other year is still a guy who will go pretty high based on his ceiling, even if he isn't quite ready.



Fourth Selection:

1. Trade Down
2. Bradley Chubb

Aside from the QBs, there is no player in this draft who:
1. Is the best player available
2. Fills a major need for the team

Bradley Chubb is the closest thing to meeting both criteria. In today's NFL, you have to get to the QB. A mix of Gregg Williams heinous play-calling and ineffective pass rushers saw the Browns have one of the least effective blitz and pass-rush success rates in football.

Chubb is good enough to rectify that issue, while being large enough and tough enough against the run to make sense opposite Garrett.

The best option, IMO, is to trade down and force one of the teams in desperate need for a QB or Barkley (Tampa) to move up and get their guy.



Trade Down Options:

7. Tampa Bay Buccaneers

The Browns have made their love of Saquon known, and now that Tampa is a relative RB graveyard, they're a prime candidate to move up for Barkley. Browns could pick up an extra 3 to move down to 7.

11. Miami
12. Buffalo
15. Arizona

All three could be the team to move up for Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson. It's my belief that Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield go 1-3 in some order. These three teams would be wise to move up and secure their guy. The cost for 4, with three QBs off the board, will likely be a 2 with another pick in 2019.



Targets in Trade Down:

1. Denzel Ward - CB - Ohio State
2. Mike McGlinchey - OT - Notre Dame
3. Maurice Hurst DT - Michigan

Dorsey has always valued an elite, lockdown CB with man cover skills. This also is in line with Gregg Williams preference, making Ward the best possible target in a trade down scenario. Almost certainly will be available at 7, maybe 11-12 also. A much better option as a man defender than Josh Jackson, who would be far better served in a zone/Cover 3 environment in which he thrived at Iowa.

McGlinchey gets slept on, but he's a borderline elite LT in the Taylor Decker mold who could immediately step in as the starter and anchor for your line. He's not Joe Thomas, but he's going to be a very good player in this league for a long time.

Hurst is simply one of the best interior defenders to enter the draft in the last few years. He's an impossible assignment for one player, and his pass-rush ability sets him apart as someone who could fit perfectly into this scheme freeing up the defensive ends.



Will get into the Day 2 tomorrow.
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When can you start working for the Brown's!!
 
thedarkness2332 said:
So, this isn’t something I would be apt to trust, but if it had any truth to it, we’re saying that our personnel team is filled with leaks and terrible people.

We have division, jealousy, and a rift before we’ve even made it to our first draft. Awesome.

And couldn’t even be further away from each other in evaluations. Let’s summarize:

Hue, Haley, Zampese, Saunders, Wolf, Berry:
1) Rosen
2) Darnold
3) Mayfield
4) Jackson
5) Allen

Dorsey, Highsmith, McCloughan:
1) Mayfield
2) Allen
3) Darnold
4) Rosen

DePodesta and Analytics team:
1) Mayfield
2) Rosen
3) Darnold
4) Jackson
5) Allen

It’s likely that this dude is a liar or is at least given largely false information. However, it’s not hard to believe that a bunch of stong-minded people are fighting.

If it did happen to somehow be true that they are still arguing amongst themselves on the QB’s, hopefully they read these boards. We clearly have it down to a top 2 consensus. :chuckle:
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If this is all some evil plan to get everyone on board with whichever non-Josh Allen QB they take at #1, it's working like a charm. A few months ago I wanted Rosen, then I softened my stance a bit where I'd be happy with Darnold or Rosen. Now I'd be happy with Jackson as well. Give me another two weeks and I'll probably be ecstatic with Mayfield. Just please dear lord, not Allen.
 
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