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2018 Draft Prospects Thread
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Los216
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sportscoach
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Duke to me is like Darren Sproles, decent RB but were he makes his mark is his ability to catch out of the back field. He's not a strong in between the tackles RB so we need a strong in between the tackles RB to go with him.
I feel in this draft in round 2 we can easily get a good every down back, so that's why I am skipping on Barkley unless we decide for whatever reason to skip on a QB in the first round and decide to go BPA, but as I have said before, I'd rather trade out of one if we don't draft a QB since the Broncos or the Jets would have to offer at least a 1st next season and another 2nd round this season.
Ward + 2nd > Barkley
Sutton +two 2nds > Barkley
He may be the best considered RB in this class, but with the fact we can get WRs and RBs galore with trading down and acquiring more picks, drafting just Barkley at a very injury prone position that high, isn't what I would like.
Los216
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Duke Johnson is all The Patriots RB's rolled into one. We should maybe figure out a way to utilize him better. Add another back who' stronger in the areas where Duke is weakest. That would be a guy who can run between the tackles on 1st and second down. Those guys will be cheap in FA and available in the 2nd and 3rd round of this draft. There' really no reason to take Barkley so high when he doesn't do a really good job complimenting Dukes' weak areas. I'm not saying Barkley won't be a great player but that would be the definition of a wasted pick.
Jack Brickman
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As much as I like Duke, I don't think you let the presence of a good player prevent you from drafting a great one. You don't say, "Well, we've got Marvin Jones...we don't need Odell Beckham."
At any rate, I'm not saying we should definitely draft Barkley, but the idea that we should wait until a later round and just draft a pure grinder seems like nonsense to me. I'd much rather use one of those high seconds and end up with an all-around back than just try to grab another Crowell. Duke is good enough to earn touches regardless, especially since we'll want to give our other back some plays off anyway.
FiveThous
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You don't become MIA's all time leading rusher by not being a good RB between the tackles, I just don't buy this argument.
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A three down back at the college level is different than a three down back at the pro level. Dion Lewis and Gio Bernard are similarly productive in limited roles at the pro level due to size and durability, despite clear talent. Bernard tests out as better in short yardage than Jeremy Hill, but they went and drafted Joe Mixon. Lewis generated about the same total yards from scrimmage as Duke, but also found himself as a bit player on many drives. Why? These guys are all built for smaller roles at around 5'8 and 200 pounds. That's just what they can handle without their bodies breaking down.
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Being a leading rusher in college is different than in the pros. I mean, if I am remembering correctly, Dayne is one of the top college rushers and he did nothing in the pros. Also guys like Garrett Wolfe from Northern Illinois is like in the top ten overall and he didn't get more than backup snaps in the NFL. What you placed on your college team doesnt always matter even if they are older/long standing programs.
Duke to me is a good, if not great, Scatback in the NFL. He can go between the tackles, but if that was his primary job, then he would never stay in the NFL very long since that is not what he is the best at. He can really catch the ball out of the back field and make plays if he gets to the outsides. Of course you have to mix it up as well, but he won't ever be a 1,000 yard rusher if we try to play him up the middle. He can easily get 1500-1800 all purpose yards in a season though, which is what a top Scatback does for a roster. IF anything a team needs a Duke but he will never be a number 1 RB on any team.
So via the draft, we need to look into finding a back that is good between the tackles/good blocker, so it will mix well with Johnson and helps this offense run more efficiently and give us more options. Starting RBs will be available in this draft on day 2, taking Minkah, who will either play FS or CB, is the best choice overall for this team with who is available.
Los216
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It's interesting that you brought up Joe Mixon. I think Duke and Gio are comparable but when the question of adding Barkely comes that's where I don't put him in the group with guys like Bell, Mixon, Elliot and David Johnson. I don't know if Barkley is as punishing of a runner or as aggressive as a runner as those guys are. Those guys are very physical, run between the tackles, aggressive blockers, dual threat RB's. Is that Barkley? I'm just not so sure it is.
It's not like I'm saying don't draft Barkley because we have Duke. It's more like is Barkley the RB we need or should we opt for a more aggressive three down RB and add another scat back to go along with Duke. I'd rather do that than just draft Barkley.
I'd rather sign Carlos Hyde and draft Michel in the 2nd round than take Barkley at #4.
FiveThous
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I'm well aware of the differences between college and the pros. Duke is big enough to be a lead back in the NFL and has the college workhorse metrics you look for in a feature back. He's ever so slightly undersized but it's not like he's Sproles.
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FiveThous
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I can't, Hue won't use him.
Los216
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53% snap count in 2017, higher than Crow. No Patriots back had more than 36%. Kamara had 45%.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/2017-snap-counts.htm
This is why the whole Duke fallacy annoys the everliving shit out of me. He was on the field a lot for a running back slotted for passing downs.
Jack Brickman
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There's no fallacy. Most of us just would have liked to have seen him get 3-5 more touches a game considering he was our team's best player by a wide margin for most of the season.
I agree that he's probably not cut out for workhorse duties. His BMI, while not awful, isn't what you want for a workhorse back. However, you constantly pretend that he can't run the ball at all, and I think that's total bullshit. He's a good runner. Not elite, but good. He's elite in the pass-catching game, though, so there should be a role for him in the NFL so long as he stays healthy. He'd be best paired with an elite RB so that they can swap them in and out on any given play like Atlanta does with Freeman and Coleman. I don't want to see a situation where Duke is used almost solely as a passing down back and the other back is used almost entirely as a running down back. I want to see Duke and the other guy used interchangeably, which makes it harder for the other team to know what the Browns will do on any given down.
Regardless, Duke was one of the most efficient backs in the NFL on a per touch basis, so it's impossible to deny, much though you've tried, that he was effective this year.