2023-24 Season | Game #16 | Lakers @ Cavs | Nov. 25, 2023 | 7:30 p.m.

[Tlyons]

Mitchell has 22 points/5 rebounds/6 assists. He also initiated at least 3 or 4 hockey assists that ended up being big man lobs/layups/dunks.

Mitchell was trying to pass the ball but hardly anyone wants to admit it. Unfortunately when Mitchell initiated by passing a lot of those ended up in empty possessions. RCR says it was because he doesn't move without the ball but I did see him running around and going around screens off the ball on a number of possessions tonight, watch the game again if anyone doesn't believe it. People only want to talk about the missed floaters, Donovan the ball stopper, Donovan the hero ball guy. That's the new kool-aid in here.

Don't forget about Donovan the injury faker

 

[Real Deal]

This is what we and Spida has to live with:

What an awful game by Mitchell

 

[Jscc]

[

JBB is already at his ceiling as a coach.

It aint getting any better.

Now the team is regressing because of it. I blame him for D-Rose'ing Don's hamstring too. It's going to linger. Hopefully it gets JBB fired when the losses start piling up in the second half when teams start trying.

 

[Pierre Pan]

Mitchell has 22 points/5 rebounds/6 assists. He also initiated at least 3 or 4 hockey assists that ended up being big man lobs/layups/dunks.

Mitchell was trying to pass the ball but hardly anyone wants to admit it. Unfortunately when Mitchell initiated by passing a lot of those ended up in empty possessions. RCR says it was because he doesn't move without the ball but I did see him running around and going around screens off the ball on a number of possessions tonight, watch the game again if anyone doesn't believe it. People only want to talk about the missed floaters, Donovan the ball stopper, Donovan the hero ball guy. That's the new kool-aid in here.

Well, when you shoot 22.2% from the field (4 for 18) , some criticism seems justified. There’s always some confirmation bias running around. People see what they want to see.

What I saw is a Cleveland team that allowed 70 points in a half and lost to a Lakers team that had been 2-5 on the road. Is it reasonable to expect some amount of rust assimilating Okoro and Mitchell? certainly, but it’s also reasonable to expect that their additions would make the team better, too

 

[buzzdog]

Let me look into my crystal ball and see what the future holds...

I see Donovan Mitchell traded for parts and pieces.

Then.. oh no, Darius Garland goes down with injuries.

But in comes CPJ to the rescue, the new forum darling. But try as he might, and as awesome as he is, he isn't quite the all world point guard everyone is building him up to be. So... the forum knives come out for CPJ, and he becomes the next whipping boy for the whiners.

It's too predictable, and sad.

 

[buzzdog]

Well, when you shoot 22.2% from the field (4 for 18) , some criticism seems justified. There’s always some confirmation bias running around

Fair enough. Not his best night by a long shot. There were a lot of shots that should have gone down that didn't, and not just by Mitchell.

 

[Cassity14]

I hear you

Mobley had 2 assists and 2 buckets late. Half of that in transition, half of that in half court after the sold out to double Donovan.

Mobley was as much the reason for the 4 game winning streak and it was primarily his secondary playmaking. When Philly was selling out to stop Garland and pretty much everytime the ball found him in the Denver game.

His BBIQ is the strongest facet of his offensive game and it supercharges his playmaking

Donovan is an amazing iso scorer, but his perimeter playmaking is selfish and iso centered as well. If he's not getting the ball to score, he's not moving and that shrinks the floor for everyone else

Yeah, you and I are seeing the same things translate, I just think maybe we disagree on who the onus is primarily on.

Mitchell sharing the backcourt with Okoro is going to make this happen. He’s *not* a lead playmaker. He really plays like a stronger and more vertical Kyrie. He’ll make the wide open pass that results in a shot, but that’s the extent of his ‘playmaking’

The Cavs have the personnel to ensure Mitchell never has to be the point guard. He should always share the court with Garland or CPJ. That player should be bringing the ball down to initiate half court sets. Mitchell should only be firing up a shot early in the clock that’s designed.

I have not seen or heard of anything that tell me Mitchell is unwilling to play the role of a more traditional shooting guard. I’ve also not seen or heard anything to suggest that’s an idea in anybody’s head but our own.

 

[Rich]

Let me look into my crystal ball and see what the future holds...

I see Donovan Mitchell traded for parts and pieces.

Then.. oh no, Darius Garland goes down with injuries.

But in comes CPJ to the rescue, the new forum darling. But try as he might, and as awesome as he is, he isn't quite the all world point guard everyone is building him up to be. So... the forum knives come out for CPJ, and he becomes the next whipping boy for the whiners.

It's too predictable, and sad.

We've been straight up passed by Orlando in terms of team heirarchy. A younger team that didn't make a massive win-now trade.

Does anyone deserve any blame for the underperformance?

 

[shoes22]

Let me look into my crystal ball and see what the future holds...

I see Donovan Mitchell traded for parts and pieces.

Then.. oh no, Darius Garland goes down with injuries.

But in comes CPJ to the rescue, the new forum darling. But try as he might, and as awesome as he is, he isn't quite the all world point guard everyone is building him up to be. So... the forum knives come out for CPJ, and he becomes the next whipping boy for the whiners.

It's too predictable, and sad.

Nobody expects CPJ to be an All-Star talent. As long as he plays well in his role, no one will complain

 

[buzzdog]

Yeah, you and I are seeing the same things translate, I just think maybe we disagree on who the onus is primarily on.

Mitchell sharing the backcourt with Okoro is going to make this happen. He’s *not* a lead playmaker. He really plays like a stronger and more vertical Kyrie. He’ll make the wide open pass that results in a shot, but that’s the extent of his ‘playmaking’

The Cavs have the personnel to ensure Mitchell never has to be the point guard. He should always share the court with Garland or CPJ. That player should be bringing the ball down to initiate half court sets. Mitchell should only be firing up a shot early in the clock that’s designed.

I have not seen or heard of anything that tell me Mitchell is unwilling to play the role of a more traditional shooting guard. I’ve also not seen or heard anything to suggest that’s an idea in anybody’s head but our own.

Mitchell can run the point in small spurts. But if we're relying on him to do so over long stretches then there's a serious problem with our roster and rotations.

 

[Futuredome]

I question if Garland was really hurt. Chemistry is bad.

 

[Pierre Pan]

Mitchell can run the point in small spurts. But if we're relying on him to do so over long stretches then there's a serious problem with our roster and rotations.

In complete agreement; that’s far from using him to the best extent of his abilities

 

[buzzdog]

Nobody expects CPJ to be an All-Star talent. As long as he plays well in his role, no one will complain

Keep telling yourself that. With this fan base it's only a matter of time. Unless of course we get to the finals with CPJ leading the charge.

 

[buzzdog]

In complete agreement; that’s far from using him to the best extent of his abilities

Yet Mitchell is blamed when he can't be a prolific point guard.

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

Yeah, you and I are seeing the same things translate, I just think maybe we disagree on who the onus is primarily on.

Mitchell sharing the backcourt with Okoro is going to make this happen. He’s *not* a lead playmaker. He really plays like a stronger and more vertical Kyrie. He’ll make the wide open pass that results in a shot, but that’s the extent of his ‘playmaking’

The Cavs have the personnel to ensure Mitchell never has to be the point guard. He should always share the court with Garland or CPJ. That player should be bringing the ball down to initiate half court sets. Mitchell should only be firing up a shot early in the clock that’s designed.

I have not seen or heard of anything that tell me Mitchell is unwilling to play the role of a more traditional shooting guard. I’ve also not seen or heard anything to suggest that’s an idea in anybody’s head but our own.

I agree. You're saying the onus is on bad coaching trying to force him to be a PG

Yes

Donovan's approach to the game needs to be harnessed and needs to be utilized within a system and with rotations that limit his blindspots and allow him to play to his strengths (tunnel vision scorer who wont be denied when he wants to score).

It's tunnel vision. If used correctly, he can get you a bucket because he's wired to do so like a cyborg. But that same tunnel vision is a curse and completely limits the other 4 players if you ask him to run the offense from the top of the key and set tempo and pace to keep a defense on their heels.

Example

I'm doing this from memory but about halfway through the quarter, it was Donovan, Okoro, Strus and the towers and the game was tied and we had a full shot clock. Donovan brought the ball up feigned a pass into a big in the midpost and automatically went to pass to Strus on the left wing. He picked up his dribble and Allen wasnt even at the post yet and then he half heartedly flipped it over to Strus without accounting for his defender or surveying to see if any of our other players were in a spot to attack before the Lakers were set.

Reeves easily recovered and picked it off. I want to say Okoro was streaking up the right wing with a head full of steam as well, a much better option.

The gist of that exercise is that he's programmed to score and he's programmed to create in isolation. Not run an offense and not survey a floor, control tempo and put other players in position to attack to their strengths.

I believe that is a limitation that needs to be brought to his attention irregardless of the coaching but then good coaching should limit him initiating the offense as much as possible as well.