#52 DeShone Kizer

[Lee]

I'm willing to work on this. How do I start?

Is there an audiobook or podcast I should be checking out while I mow the lawn or drive to work?

Step 1. Take a 12 inch Black and Yellow Dildo with the Name Roethlisberger on the side and shove it in your ass.

Step 2. Repeat

Step 3. Proffit

 

[The Oi]

Step 1. Take a 12 inch Black and Yellow Dildo with the Name Roethlisberger on the side and shove it in your ass.

Step 2. Repeat

Step 3. Proffit

Living in western PA, one of these shouldn't be too difficult to get ahold of.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I'm willing to work on this. How do I start?

Is there an audiobook or podcast I should be checking out while I mow the lawn or drive to work?

Step 1 - Put @_AZ on ignore.
Step 2 - Um... I'll get back to you. I feel like there should be more steps.

 

[dark2332]

One thing Browns fans need to work on is valuing a mid-tier quarterback. Hoyer has spent the years since being a Brown being serviceable enough to help the positional players around him develop. The Browns didn't value that and assumed it was easily replaceable even if Manziel didn't pan out. Well, as it turns out a QB who finishes between 20th and 30th in the league is very valuable and not that easy to replace after all.

I just want to point out that after a 7-4 start in Hoyer's last season as our starter, the wheels were completely coming off for him. Really the few games before, but we won a few anyway.

He was benched because of his extremely poor play. Johnny was put out there because, well, if the veteran is going to make rookie mistakes, may as well play the rookie.

Would it have been nice to retain him as a backup, sure. I just don't get the narrative that Hoyer was anything better than a bad starting quarterback.

I'd settle for average. Hoyer was not close to average.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I just want to point out that after a 7-4 start in Hoyer's last season as our starter, the wheels were completely coming off for him. Really the few games before, but we won a few anyway.

He was benched because of his extremely poor play. Johnny was put out there because, well, if the veteran is going to make rookie mistakes, may as well play the rookie.

Would it have been nice to retain him as a backup, sure. I just don't get the narrative that Hoyer was anything better than a bad starting quarterback.

I'd settle for average. Hoyer was not close to average.

This reads like the guy in 1994 still making excuses for Guns and Roses. Look at the stats. Hoyer had back to back bad games and the media couldn't wait to start the Manziel circus. Look at current contract values. The Browns fucked up. Why is it shocking the Browns fucked up?

I'll help you: The media greased the wheels on the Johnny Manziel mania and will never admit how badly they handled that season.

Welcome to Cleveland: Athletes and coaches get canned, terrible media mock them and keep their jobs.

But, the Grossi's of Cleveland are being called out now.

 

[dark2332]

This reads like the guy in 1994 still making excuses for Guns and Roses. Look at the stats. Hoyer had back to back bad games and the media couldn't wait to start the Manziel circus. Look at current contract values. The Browns fucked up. Why is it shocking the Browns fucked up?

I'll help you: The media greased the wheels on the Johnny Manziel mania and will never admit how badly they handled that season.

Welcome to Cleveland: Athletes and coaches get canned, terrible media mock them and keep their jobs.

But, the Grossi's of Cleveland are being called out now.

Oh, I agree that the Cleveland media is always ready to move on to the next one and doesn't appreciate a good thing.

However, let's look at the stats as you suggest. In that 2014 season with such a good start, Hoyer ended with a 55% completion percentage in his 14 games, threw 12 TD to 13 picks, and had a 76.5 passer rating.

In his last FIVE games he played that season, he threw 2 TD and 9 interceptions.... 2 to 9.

So yes, there was pressure to switch to your first round pick, but a part of it had to have been Hoyer's extremely poor play. He's the one who opened the door--Pettine didn't even want to make the move until he had no choice. The media may have greased the wheels and started it rolling, but it was Hoyer himself who gave the cart a hefty push down the hill.

That said, I did like Hoyer. I thought he would've been a good guy to retain as a backup the following year. However, Brian wanted to be an NFL starter so he elected to leave and we made the decision to go get a guy willing to mentor in McCown.

Such is the life when you invest in a first round quarterback. It would have been similar had it been Bortles, Teddy, Carr, or Manziel. It just so happens Johnny Manziel was a horribly irresponsible draft choice.

If it had been Derek Carr that we drafted and plugged in for a struggling Hoyer those last few games, we never would have looked back, nor would we be having this woe-is-Hoyer conversation right now.

 

[The Oi]

This reads like the guy in 1994 still making excuses for Guns and Roses. Look at the stats. Hoyer had back to back bad games and the media couldn't wait to start the Manziel circus. Look at current contract values. The Browns fucked up. Why is it shocking the Browns fucked up?

I'll help you: The media greased the wheels on the Johnny Manziel mania and will never admit how badly they handled that season.

Welcome to Cleveland: Athletes and coaches get canned, terrible media mock them and keep their jobs.

But, the Grossi's of Cleveland are being called out now.

Sounds like you're probably a big Trump guy.

 

[dark2332]

Sounds like you're probably a big Trump guy.

 

[sportscoach]

Oh, I agree that the Cleveland media is always ready to move on to the next one and doesn't appreciate a good thing.

However, let's look at the stats as you suggest. In that 2014 season with such a good start, Hoyer ended with a 55% completion percentage in his 14 games, threw 12 TD to 13 picks, and had a 76.5 passer rating.

In his last FIVE games he played that season, he threw 2 TD and 9 interceptions.... 2 to 9.

So yes, there was pressure to switch to your first round pick, but a part of it had to have been Hoyer's extremely poor play. He's the one who opened the door--Pettine didn't even want to make the move until he had no choice. The media may have greased the wheels and started it rolling, but it was Hoyer himself who gave the cart a hefty push down the hill.

That said, I did like Hoyer. I thought he would've been a good guy to retain as a backup the following year. However, Brian wanted to be an NFL starter so he elected to leave and we made the decision to go get a guy willing to mentor in McCown.

Such is the life when you invest in a first round quarterback. It would have been similar had it been Bortles, Teddy, Carr, or Manziel. It just so happens Johnny Manziel was a horribly irresponsible draft choice.

If it had been Derek Carr that we drafted and plugged in for a struggling Hoyer those last few games, we never would have looked back, nor would we be having this woe-is-Hoyer conversation right now.

The FO decided that Gordon and Manziel must play and started taking calls from the coach even though they had a winning record. There is no ifs ands or buts about it when it comes to that season. The offense starting going down the crapshoot when Gordon was back out there and Hoyer was trying to target him.

Hoyer went 7-3 with 11 TDs to 5 INTs from week one to week ten. His main target was Hawkins for the most part. Hawkins got two TDs, but had a couple 100 yard games and got about about 22.3% of his throws over those ten games with a catch rate of 63%.

Week 11-14, Hoyer went 1-3 (as him being a QB out there since he came in to replace the injuries Manziel in 14) with 1 TD to 8 INTs. Gordon had a catch rate of 47% from Hoyer but had 36% of the offensive passing targets between week 11-13.

If you look at the actual numbers of the game and game film, you would see Hoyer was forced by someone above Pettine's head to throw to Gordon, rather than spread out the ball like he did between the first 10 weeks. Why would a coach suddenly change his game plan and the way the offense ran when they are winning otherwise?

@thedarkness2332, reread this statement here and you will see why that season wasn't on Hoyer

I know someone on the Browns payroll and I believe him when I hear Haslam has changed as an owner. He lets the football people do their jobs, he wants the best coaches possible and doesn't want others interfering. But those first two or three years, man... they were still sending plays down to the coaches, like it's a game of Madden. Hoyer is a low level starter, but he is solid in the pocket. Shanahan hand-picked him here in S.F. for a good reason. Some of his deep balls could be more accurate, but other than that he's a vertical passer who plays to his strengths and makes the right reads. Browns should have kept him. Oh well, hoping Kizer develops in the pocket and I don't have to consider the Hoyer teams "the good old days."

@Randolphkeys
information about the FO and Haslem trying to control the team like Madden in a way did happen it seems like to in the stats. A QB should never start forcing throws and Hoyer wasnt an amazing QB, but he wasn't turning over the ball until Gordon got out there. He was being efficient with the ball and at least keeping the offense moving at a decent clip. He was forced to throw to Gordon rather than do what he was doing. So that stats of him doing poorly in the last 5 games wasn't on Hoyer, it was on the FO deciding they should run the team and use Pettine as a puppet

 

[sportscoach]

One thing Browns fans need to work on is valuing a mid-tier quarterback. Hoyer has spent the years since being a Brown being serviceable enough to help the positional players around him develop. The Browns didn't value that and assumed it was easily replaceable even if Manziel didn't pan out. Well, as it turns out a QB who finishes between 20th and 30th in the league is very valuable and not that easy to replace after all.

Sorry back to Kizer discussion, hence why I want them to with the guy who wins out this season and just keep him out there really the whole season as long as he is running the offense properly. I am tired of trying to role the dice on a franchise guy, I want a guy who will allow them compete every week and at least give them chances to win ball games regardless of if it's Kizer, Osweiler or Kessler. Kizer does have upside, but I doubt in one off-season he will go from the big arm boneheaded QB in Notre Dame to a top 30 QB and good enough to start in the NFL. Kessler or Osweiler make a lot more sense with more experience. Jackson will know after this season whether or not Kizer can start long term I am pretty sure. QBs need the locker room just like coaches do.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Week 11-14, Hoyer went 1-3 (as him being a QB out there since he came in to replace the injuries Manziel in 14) with 1 TD to 8 INTs. Gordon had a catch rate of 47% from Hoyer but had 36% of the offensive passing targets between week 11-13.

It's about time we switch this back to Kizer, but I'm glad you pointed this out. Hoyer was absolutely forcing the ball to Gordon. In the bye week leading up to Gordon's return, McManamin wrote an article on how many plays seemed designed for Gordon. The logic behind it was Gordon was by far the #1 receiver and Hoyer had great success with him under Turner the previous season. The biggest problem was Gordon didn't bother to learn Shanahan's offense while on suspension. He often ran the wrong routes during that stretch as well. Was it all Gordon who derailed Hoyer? No, Hoyer still made some bad forced throws, but a #1 receiver who doesn't know the plays doesn't help.

So in spite of all @The Oi confefe, Hoyer spent the last two years playing a solid regular season for the Texans - along with a historically bad playoff game - and taking Cutler's job in Chicago before breaking his arm. Solid bridge QB stuff while the Browns wasted my fall. I'll happily catch a few 49er games this season.

All that said, Kizer is the guy who might end up a top 15 QB... If he works on a few of his holes, he brings a lot more physical talent than Hoyer has ever had. I'm watching again this year because the Browns have an entertaining young group. Im optimistic the front office and scouting department has been gutted of it's general shittiness during the Farmer Era.

Things are looking up.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Problem with Hoyer was that we wasn't willing to be a bridge QB here, and thought he was better than he really was. Too bad, because had his attitude been different, it would have been nice to have him.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Problem with Hoyer was that we wasn't willing to be a bridge QB here, and thought he was better than he really was. Too bad, because had his attitude been different, it would have been nice to have him.

He publicly states the young QBs should have to beat him out. Considering Johnny was on cocaine, that isn't too much to ask. Again, when the owner and GM are forcing the coaches to pull you, you might not feel wanted. The guy still reps Cleveland, attended the 7th game of the World Series with his family last Tribe season despite playing for the Bears. Again, just a shame the way everything was handled, but if Kizer fixes a few things he's going to make the discussion moot.

 

[Phills14]

Are we actively trying to talk about things other than DeShone Kizer in the DeShone Kizer thread? First it was the Browns running game, specifically Crowell. Now we've moved onto to rehash the great "Brian Hoyer is a terrific bridge QB" debate. Isn't there anything else to talk about?

 

[sportscoach]

Are we actively trying to talk about things other than DeShone Kizer in the DeShone Kizer thread? First it was the Browns running game, specifically Crowell. Now we've moved onto to rehash the great "Brian Hoyer is a terrific bridge QB" debate. Isn't there anything else to talk about?

Sadly not really right now. I mean I check rumors and whatnot daily and nothing is going with the Browns except speculations who is the starting QB. Outside of that there is absolutely nothing going on. Essentially we go off in a tangent and then someone gets it back onto Kizer lol