#52 DeShone Kizer

[Randolphkeys]

Are we actively trying to talk about things other than DeShone Kizer in the DeShone Kizer thread? First it was the Browns running game, specifically Crowell. Now we've moved onto to rehash the great "Brian Hoyer is a terrific bridge QB" debate. Isn't there anything else to talk about?

 

[buzzdog]

I've speed read my way to catch up from early June in this discussion so forgive me if I rehash anything that's been discussed.

As to what's best for Kizer I can only say that my vast experience in watching Browns quarterbacks fail shows me one thing, and that's that there is no single tried and true formula to develop a quarterback. Whichever way you try it it can succeed or fail and with the Browns it has pretty much been the latter since Bernie left.

A few comments on what I've read here. For one I'm surprised to learn that Kessler is one concussion away from being brain dead. I seriously doubt Kessler has actually had a third as many concussions as Tom Brady or Aaron Rogers, based on nothing but opportunity potential. Is Kessler's skull particularly thin compared to them and every other veteran QB in the league? I'm one of apparently the few people who thinks Kessler could be very solid especially to start the season. Kessler does know how to go through his reads and he gets rid of the ball pretty quickly when the center of the OLine isn't allowing a jail break. So put me down as advocating for Kessler to at least start out the season as #1 unless Kizer blows his doors off.

I would be delighted if Kizer could actually win the starting job in his rookie year out of training camp and although I've always been a proponent of the Keys-ian line of thinking that you give rookies a red shirt season if possible, I think there are a lot of factors that would cause me to be fine with throwing Kizer into the fire if Hugh thinks he can handle it.

I think the success that guys like Russell Wilson, Dak Prescott, even to some degree Wentz have shown shows that it's not completely insane to throw a rookie into the fire IF there is a solid offensive line and running game, and especially if the defense can keep scores on the low side relieving pressure on the offense. If the Browns truly think they've taken steps forward with the OLine, running game and the defense then that gives them a lot more breathing room to give Kizer reps sooner rather than later.

I think the supposedly rich QB draft next year and our potentially strong draft position kind of forces our hand in testing out Kizer whether we like it or not. I really think we need to gauge Kizer under live fire for a significant number of games this season regardless of whatever else happens because if we did hit the jackpot with him we really really need to know it before the next draft.

So based on those things I think we absolutely have to give Kizer all the reps for at least the second half of the season.

As for Osweiler? I haven't seen or heard a whole lot about him since we got him. I thought he was worth a flier coming out of college but I did watch him completely suck in some of his starts at Denver and AZ. For me he'd really have to stand out in a very clear, cut and dried fashion to win the starter reps.

 

[sportscoach]

I've speed read my way to catch up from early June in this discussion so forgive me if I rehash anything that's been discussed.

As to what's best for Kizer I can only say that my vast experience in watching Browns quarterbacks fail shows me one thing, and that's that there is no single tried and true formula to develop a quarterback. Whichever way you try it it can succeed or fail and with the Browns it has pretty much been the latter since Bernie left.

A few comments on what I've read here. For one I'm surprised to learn that Kessler is one concussion away from being brain dead. I seriously doubt Kessler has actually had a third as many concussions as Tom Brady or Aaron Rogers, based on nothing but opportunity potential. Is Kessler's skull particularly thin compared to them and every other veteran QB in the league? I'm one of apparently the few people who thinks Kessler could be very solid especially to start the season. Kessler does know how to go through his reads and he gets rid of the ball pretty quickly when the center of the OLine isn't allowing a jail break. So put me down as advocating for Kessler to at least start out the season as #1 unless Kizer blows his doors off.

I would be delighted if Kizer could actually win the starting job in his rookie year out of training camp and although I've always been a proponent of the Keys-ian line of thinking that you give rookies a red shirt season if possible, I think there are a lot of factors that would cause me to be fine with throwing Kizer into the fire if Hugh thinks he can handle it.

I think the success that guys like Russell Wilson, Dak Prescott, even to some degree Wentz have shown shows that it's not completely insane to throw a rookie into the fire IF there is a solid offensive line and running game, and especially if the defense can keep scores on the low side relieving pressure on the offense. If the Browns truly think they've taken steps forward with the OLine, running game and the defense then that gives them a lot more breathing room to give Kizer reps sooner rather than later.

I think the supposedly rich QB draft next year and our potentially strong draft position kind of forces our hand in testing out Kizer whether we like it or not. I really think we need to gauge Kizer under live fire for a significant number of games this season regardless of whatever else happens because if we did hit the jackpot with him we really really need to know it before the next draft.

So based on those things I think we absolutely have to give Kizer all the reps for at least the second half of the season.

As for Osweiler? I haven't seen or heard a whole lot about him since we got him. I thought he was worth a flier coming out of college but I did watch him completely suck in some of his starts at Denver and AZ. For me he'd really have to stand out in a very clear, cut and dried fashion to win the starter reps.

The biggest question about Kizer for me, is why did he do so many boneheaded things on his film and can one offseason training change what he does in between the lines on game day? I believe he needs to sit this season to develop that part of the mental game. I just feel he will start going into his bad habits if he doesn't actually earn the starting spot. Also how much he plays depends on if we are in playoff contention or not. If we are in playoff contention and he didn't earn the right to start in the preseason, then we have to leave whoever the QB is that is getting us there and skip on playing Kizer.

I think the coaching staff will know who they have before the 18 draft and honestly the 18 also does depend on Osweiler as well. If he leads us to the playoffs then we almost have to skip releasing him and keep him for his contract/restructure it. If he never plays then regardless of what Kizer does, we end up releasing Osweiler and drafting another QB since that is just common sense for this organization. Right now it is really hard to say which way we should go since we havent seen either of these two guys play for us in Cleveland, but how they do changes our plans in 18 completely.

 

[Triplethreat]

The biggest question about Kizer for me, is why did he do so many boneheaded things on his film and can one offseason training change what he does in between the lines on game day? I believe he needs to sit this season to develop that part of the mental game. I just feel he will start going into his bad habits if he doesn't actually earn the starting spot. Also how much he plays depends on if we are in playoff contention or not. If we are in playoff contention and he didn't earn the right to start in the preseason, then we have to leave whoever the QB is that is getting us there and skip on playing Kizer.

I think the coaching staff will know who they have before the 18 draft and honestly the 18 also does depend on Osweiler as well. If he leads us to the playoffs then we almost have to skip releasing him and keep him for his contract/restructure it. If he never plays then regardless of what Kizer does, we end up releasing Osweiler and drafting another QB since that is just common sense for this organization. Right now it is really hard to say which way we should go since we havent seen either of these two guys play for us in Cleveland, but how they do changes our plans in 18 completely.

We will not be in playoff contention. Nor will Osweiler start or lead us to any point where we will be even close to being in playoff contention.

Please stop with this narrative.

 

[AZ_]

We will not be in playoff contention. Not will Osweiler start or lead us to any point where we will be in playoff contention.

Please stop with this narrative.

Just something to talk about LoL

Listen to my garbage takes based on nothing because lol it's the off-season

Sports!

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

What I would like to point out is that none of the 2018 QB prospects really ever looked as good as Kizer did in 2016, sans Darnold.

Even Darnold is not the end all be all at this point, either. Do not get me wrong, he was damn good last year. But his motion is garbage and he certainly is not finished. He also is not going to be a senior as well meaning he could stay in school.

All this to say, whatever Kizer does this year is not a final evaluation and he should be given more time no matter what, 2017 be damned.

 

[sportscoach]

We will not be in playoff contention. Nor will Osweiler start or lead us to any point where we will be even close to being in playoff contention.

Please stop with this narrative.

You honestly never know how a team will do until the season starts. We have a projected top 5 OLine, with likely a strong running game and an upgraded DLine as well. If guys like Peppers and Pryor in the secondary can live up to potential then it is not impossible to make the playoffs as a wild card team. This team won't be drafting in the top 10 in 2018 unless we use the Texans pick with ours to trade up. We have no clue how Kizer and Osweiler will do in Cleveland. I think we can make projections on Kessler for the most part, but the other two, even the experts are divided and cannot come to an agreement on them. I am leaving all the options and possibilities out on the table whether or not people like them or agree with them.

Just something to talk about LoL

Listen to my garbage takes based on nothing because lol it's the off-season

Sports!

Well we all have nothing to go off of, so I guess we can leave this quiet and completely dead since that is what you are saying. I mean at least I am talking sports and not just bashing to bash cause you want to bash. Maybe I just wish to talk sports and hear others opinions so I post my ideas online and see what peeps think and give my opinion to what others think. IF sports where predictable then they wouldn't be anything fun. Sorry I have a very good outlook on the season.

@AZ_ What if Osweiler is starting and we are in a playoff contention, do you still play Kizer or do you just go with what is working? I know your response will be Osweiler will never start so it is irrelevant, but life never works that way, so why don't you answer my what if question like a reasonable human being. Tell me should we start Kizer if this team is able to make the playoffs if a guy like Osweiler is starting and is winning games?

 

[AZ_]

Your narrative isn't even worth discussing, Osweiler remains trash.

 

[sportscoach]

Your narrative isn't even worth discussing, Osweiler remains trash.

I so want him to start and lead us to the playoffs so you can eat your words. I think that will help ya get off your high horse.

Either way Kizer has to earn his reps with the starting guys and if he doesn't and we are in contention of at least a wild card spot, we won't see him play. That is my supposedly horrible take by people on here, but I am stay within my delusions since it makes sense to me.

 

[AZ_]

All the people arguing that Kizer doesn't need to earn his reps better take note.

 

[sportscoach]

All the people arguing that Kizer doesn't need to earn his reps better take note.

There are people on here that do say he should start regardless, which honestly is not bright, but it will always be that way in Cleveland until we actually find someone to take the reigns. My take is the kid shouldn't start unless he beats out the other two guys, which actually is a long shot to be sincere even though he may have the most upside.

 

[Triplethreat]

There are people on here that do say he should start regardless, which honestly is not bright, but it will always be that way in Cleveland until we actually find someone to take the reigns. My take is the kid shouldn't start unless he beats out the other two guys, which actually is a long shot to be sincere even though he may have the most upside.

Just stop pumping and re-hashing over and over your awful Osweiler leading us to the promised land take.

We took him to get a pick. No one else wanted him. He's fucking terrible. I don't even know why you think he even has a smidge of a chance to start after watching how he destroyed an extremely capable offense last season headlined by one of the best Wide Recievers in the league. Whom he made look like complete dog shit.

The Browns section needs to be mostly dormant until training camp.

 

[sportscoach]

Just stop pumping and re-hashing over and over your awful Osweiler leading us to the promised land take.

We took him to get a pick. No one else wanted him. He's fucking terrible. I don't even know why you think he even has a smidge of a chance to start after watching how he destroyed an extremely capable offense last season headlined by one of the best Wide Recievers in the league. Whom he made look like complete dog shit.

The Browns section needs to be mostly dormant until training camp.

Bill O'Brien sucks... hence why the Texans pick may be before the Browns actual pick in 2018!

 

[Triplethreat]

Bill O'Brien sucks... hence why the Texans pick may be before the Browns actual pick in 2018!

No...... it won't. O'Brien and Hopkins were fine the year before Osweiler got there.

Bill O'Brien has coached his team into the playoffs every year he's been in the league. So please, drop the narrative.

 

[sportscoach]

No...... it won't. O'Brien and Hopkins were fine the year before Osweiler got there.

Bill O'Brien has coached his team into the playoffs every year he's been in the league. So please, drop the narrative.

It is cause of the defense, not the offense. He is supposed to be a QB coach yet everyone single one of the QBs that has played for him, have all had issues with him and all looked bad. It wouldn't actually surprise me if he is going to be fired if he doesn't make the playoffs. It is not like his division has been any good the last few years, if anything it is like which person can walk the fastest down the track since none of the them can run with the big boys. Browns are in the toughest Division usually in all of football without a doubt since how many times in the last 5-10 years are 2-3 teams within the division all making the playoffs/being in the championship game. The Texans would have never made it to the playoffs in our division. He is not a good coach and playing Watson will show why he isn't a good coach.