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A dream deal if NO continues to suck real hard.

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That is still a pretty realistic deal for Paul though if NO would ever put him on the block. I mean what other teams can put together a better package in terms of somewhat replacing Paul with Mo, giving them cap relief with Z for Peja, and young talent with JJ and 2 first rounders.

The big issue is NO putting Paul on the block or Paul doing the dirty and demanding a trade.

My big issue is a team like Golden State cooking up a package of Randolph, Morrow, Ellis, and picks. That would be impossible to beat.

However, the amount of teams that can legitimately offer cap relief, young talent, and a replacement for Paul are few and far between.
 
The interesting thing is that Mo+Z+JJ for Paul + Peja does work financially. Dealing for CP3 would be tricky because his contact is BYC.
 
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Change Gay to AI cause AI is not available in the trade thing right now. We'll give 1st and $$ to NO. Cavs 2nd to Griz (via NO). NO will get a ton of expiring. Jaric is a trade off cause they are getting rid of Peja's massive contract, plus they get to see Lima. This would only work if NO goes on a massive Christmas sale where everything goes

Why on earth would Memphis do this.
 
Northstar what is the difference between a BYC and a regular contract when it comes to trading.
 
Northstar what is the difference between a BYC and a regular contract when it comes to trading.

73. What is "Base Year Compensation?" How does base year compensation affect trades? Why does it exist?
Base year compensation (BYC) prevents another salary cap loophole. Without BYC, a team over the salary cap that wants to trade a player, but can't because of the Traded Player exception (which says teams can't take back more than 125% of the salary they trade away), could just sign the player to a new contract that fits within the desired range, then do the trade. BYC says "if you re-sign a player and give him a big raise, then for a period of time his trade value will be lower than his actual salary."

BYC defines the salary that's used to compare players for compliance under the Traded Player exception (see question number 68 for more information about the Traded Player exception). Usually the salary used for comparison is the player's actual salary. But under either of the following circumstances, a different salary is used when comparing salaries for trading purposes:

The team is over the salary cap, used the Larry Bird or Early Bird exception to re-sign the player, and the player received a raise greater than 20% (unless it's the minimum salary).
The team is over the salary cap, it extended the player's rookie scale contract, and the player received a raise greater than 20%.
If either of the above apply, then the player is considered a base year player. A player remains a base year player for six months, or until June 30, whichever comes later. When trading a base year player, the salary used for comparison is the player's previous salary, or 50% of the first-year salary in his new contract, whichever is greater.

Here is an example of a BYC calculation: A player earned $2 million in 2004-05, after which he became a free agent. He then signs a new contract (re-signing with his previous team, which is over the salary cap) starting at $9 million. This player qualifies for BYC, so his trade value is the greater of his previous salary ($2 million) or 50% of his new salary ($4.5 million), or $4.5 million. So this player, who actually earns $9 million, is worth $4.5 million for trading purposes.

When comparing salaries for trade, teams use their own player's BYC value and the other player's full salary, even if the other player is also BYC. Here is a simple example -- two $5 million players, both of whom are re-signed (by teams over the cap) for $10 million. Both players become base year players whose base year amount is $5 million (50% of the new salary). If the teams want to trade these players for each other they compare their player's base year amount to the other player's full salary. So each team can take back a maximum of 125% plus $100,000 of their player's $5 million base year amount, or $6.35 million. They compare $6.35 million to the other player's full $10 million. $10 million is way too high, so this trade can't be done, even though the players' actual salaries match exactly.

If one of the teams in the above example was below the cap, the trade still couldn't be done. For the team under the cap, their player would not be BYC, so they would be comparing $10 million to $10 million. But since the other team is over the cap, their player is BYC, and they'd still be comparing $5.85 million to $10 million, which prevents the trade from working. (See question number 75 for more information about trading BYC players.)

For Larry Bird or Early Bird players, the player's BYC begins on the date he signs his contract. For extended rookie scale contracts, the player's BYC begins on the day after the July Moratorium which precedes the first season of the extension. For example, if an extension of a rookie scale contract is signed on 10/30/05, his BYC begins on 7/12/06, because the first season of the extension is 2006-07. A player's BYC goes away if the team falls below the salary cap, the player signs with a different team, or the player is traded.

If a team trades an extended rookie between the date his extension is signed and the date it takes effect, his "trade value" for the receiving team is the average of the salaries in the last year of the scale contract and each year of the extension. This is called the poison pill provision. The sending team uses the player's actual salary when calculating their outgoing salary. They use the current-year maximum salary in place of the (unknown) maximum salary for a future season, if necessary.

Here is an example of a poison pill calculation: Carmelo Anthony earns $4,694,041 in 2006-07, the final year of his rookie scale contract. Prior to October 31, 2006 he signed a five year extension (bringing the total seasons to six) for the maximum salary, with the maximum 10.5% raises. Anthony's actual salary will not be determined until July 2007, when the maximum salary amounts for 2007-08 are set. During the 2006-07 season the 2006-07 maximum is assumed for the 2007-08 season ($13,762,775), and the salary in subsequent seasons is based on this amount ($15,070,550, $16,378,325 and $17,686,100, respectively). If Anthony is traded during the 2006-07 season, then his outgoing salary from the Nuggets' perspective is his actual salary of $4,694,041. His incoming salary from the other team's perspective would be $13,518,358 -- the average of his 2006-07 salary and the assumed salaries in the extension.

Source: http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

So, in this case, a Z for CP3 trade works financially if Paul isn't BYC, but doesn't because Paul is BYC, as he only counts for about $6.75M of value that the Hornets are sending out, yet Z is $11M coming in, which is more than 6.75*1.25. This really limits what other teams can trade for Paul. For instance, a team with a lot of young, talented players, like say the Blazers, could put a much more compelling offer together in terms of raw talent, but it wouldn't work financially.

If Paul wasn't BYC, Portland could offer Aldridge, Oden, Bayless, and Outlaw, which surely is enough talent to land Paul if he wants out, and the trade would work financially. However, because Paul is BYC, this trade has no chance of working, as the trade machine says that New Orleans has to cut $14M from it's incoming salaries. Adding Peja to the deal then makes the money not work the other way, as the Blazers take back $5.6M in salaries more than they are allowed to; there is really no way to get a deal done between those two teams that I can see if you involve the players I have listed above. The fact that Z+JJ+Mo for CP3+Peja works financially is intriguing, though I doubt that is enough talent to land CP3, even with taking Peja off their hands.
 
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That is still a pretty realistic deal for Paul though if NO would ever put him on the block. I mean what other teams can put together a better package in terms of somewhat replacing Paul with Mo, giving them cap relief with Z for Peja, and young talent with JJ and 2 first rounders.

The big issue is NO putting Paul on the block or Paul doing the dirty and demanding a trade.

My big issue is a team like Golden State cooking up a package of Randolph, Morrow, Ellis, and picks. That would be impossible to beat.

However, the amount of teams that can legitimately offer cap relief, young talent, and a replacement for Paul are few and far between.
GS isn't the only team that could make a better offer, though. Add the Thunder, Wolves, Nets, Blazers & Heat to the list (and that was just off the top of my head). There are actually quite a few teams that could offer decent cap relief and loads of talent. The Cavs might be able to provide cap relief...but talent, not so much.
 
GS isn't the only team that could make a better offer, though. Add the Thunder, Wolves, Nets, Blazers & Heat to the list (and that was just off the top of my head). There are actually quite a few teams that could offer decent cap relief and loads of talent. The Cavs might be able to provide cap relief...but talent, not so much.

It all goes back to Paul's BYC contract, however. All of those teams you listed don't have a big contract like Z's and Mo's to make the deal big enough in terms of $$$ to counteract what Paul's BYC contract does to a trade. The only way that a deal becomes big enough is if there is a whole multitude of players thrown in from the other team to New Orleans.

For instance, if OKC wants Paul, they could give New Orleans Durant, Green, Harden, Thomas, and Sefalosha, but OKC would have no one left besides Russel Westbrook. I can't see OKC giving up that much young talent for CP3.

Nets could also do Harris + Lopez + Lee + Hassel for Peja and Paul, but it messes up their 2010 cap room room.

In order for Paul to be traded, Peja pretty much has to be thrown in so that the numbers are big enough to counteract the effect of the BYC contract. For the teams with young talent, those players are on their rookie contracts still, and thus the contracts are pretty small, which means the other team would have to give up 3 or 4 young players and basically blow their whole team up.

I can't see the Thunder giving up Durant, Green, and Harden for CP3 and Peja. I can't see the Nets doing it either, because then they can't go after Wade, Bosh, or LeBron because Peja screws up their cap space (and thus they'd be stuck with CP3 and a bunch of scrubs).

I'm not saying we're going to get CP3, but it doesn't seem like a deal works very well for teams with young talent because they have to basically give up all of their young talent to make the salaries work, and teams like the Nets aren't going to want to do such a trade because it screws up their 2010 gambles.

For the Heat, they could offer something like Haslem and Richardson as expirings, Beasley, Chalmers, and Diawara. However, is that really any better than Z, JJ, and Mo if you consider it's really JJ and MO as compared to Beasley, Chalmers, and Diawara? I'm not sure...
 
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It all goes back to Paul's BYC contract, however. All of those teams you listed don't have a big contract like Z's and Mo's to make the deal big enough in terms of $$$ to counteract what Paul's BYC contract does to a trade. The only way that a deal becomes big enough is if there is a whole multitude of players thrown in from the other team to New Orleans.

For instance, if OKC wants Paul, they could give New Orleans Durant, Green, Harden, Thomas, and Sefalosha, but OKC would have no one left besides Russel Westbrook. I can't see OKC giving up that much young talent for CP3.

Nets could also do Harris + Lopez + Lee + Hassel for Peja and Paul, but it messes up their 2010 cap room room.

In order for Paul to be traded, Peja pretty much has to be thrown in so that the numbers are big enough to counteract the effect of the BYC contract. For the teams with young talent, those players are on their rookie contracts still, and thus the contracts are pretty small, which means the other team would have to give up 3 or 4 young players and basically blow their whole team up.

I can't see the Thunder giving up Durant, Green, and Harden for CP3 and Peja. I can't see the Nets doing it either, because then they can't go after Wade, Bosh, or LeBron because Peja screws up their cap space (and thus they'd be stuck with CP3 and a bunch of scrubs).

I'm not saying we're going to get CP3, but it doesn't seem like a deal works very well for teams with young talent because they have to basically give up all of their young talent to make the salaries work, and teams like the Nets aren't going to want to do such a trade because it screws up their 2010 gambles.

For the Heat, they could offer something like Haslem and Richardson as expirings, Beasley, Chalmers, and Diawara. However, is that really any better than Z, JJ, and Mo if you consider it's really JJ and MO as compared to Beasley, Chalmers, and Diawara? I'm not sure...
Etan Thomas/Jeff Green/Russell Westbrook/Shaun Livingston/'10 first/'12 first for Chris Paul/James Posey

Derrick Rose/Tyrus Thomas/Brad Miller/Jerome James/'10 first/'12 first for Chris Paul/James Posey/Peja Stojakovic

Jermaine O'Neal/Mario Chalmers/Michael Beasley/'10 first/'12 first for Chris Paul/James Posey/Peja Stojakovic

All 3 of those work and are better than what the Cavs could offer. Portland could offer a package centered around Roy or Aldridge. Minnesota could offer a package around Love, Cardinal, Blount, and Rubio or Flynn. The Nets could offer a package around Harris, Williams, Battie, and future picks. Those deals would need some minor tweaking, but again they would still be better than anything the Cavs can offer.

And to answer your last question, yes. Hickson is still unproven and Mo is becoming really overrated (and he's relatively old compared to Beasley/Chalmers).
 
LOL, I can't believe some of you guys.

We couldn't get Stephen FREAKIN Jackson!!!
You guys actually think we can get CP3?

Triump36 is right, the teams he mentioned have a MUCH better shot than we do. CP3 is not going anywhere.
 
LOL, I can't believe some of you guys.

We couldn't get Stephen FREAKIN Jackson!!!
You guys actually think we can get CP3?

Triump36 is right, the teams he mentioned have a MUCH better shot than we do. CP3 is not going anywhere.

Maybe we couldn't get Stephen FREAKIN Jackson because we didn't want to overpay or budge on what we were willing to trade for Stephen FREAKIN Jackson and didn't want to give up a big without getting a big back.

I'm sure for Paul, everybody besides LeBron would be available & we'd go all out.. it just wouldn't have been worth it for Jackson.

Damn, I absolutely hate it when people say "oh we couldn't get player x or player y" without looking at all the objectives.

With already 3 guys that handle the ball for damn near the entire game, getting another guy that needs the ball in his hands all the time to be successful would not be the best fit.

He's a good fit for Charlotte, as he can handle the ball more there, he's just not a good fit here. He'd be useless when he don't have the ball in his hands, which here would be quite often.
 
LOL, I can't believe some of you guys.

We couldn't get Stephen FREAKIN Jackson!!!
You guys actually think we can get CP3?

Triump36 is right, the teams he mentioned have a MUCH better shot than we do. CP3 is not going anywhere.

We offered a straight salary dump for Jackson. GS wanted some sort of talent in return.

Max and/or W&G have said we'd put about everything we have on the table for CP3.
 
Cle Trades Z, West, and Hickon to New Orleans

NO Trades David West, James Posey, Julian Wright to Cleveland

Win-Win for both teams and owners.
 
Cle Trades Z, West, and Hickon to New Orleans

NO Trades David West, James Posey, Julian Wright to Cleveland

Win-Win for both teams and owners.

That's crazy. We need MORE less than useful swingmen for our roster? David's the only one who really can be used well. James Posey and Julian Wright will only clog up the swingman chart on our roster that already has A.P., Moon, LBJ, Danny. And what's worse is that the big man positions lose their luster. It goes back to three players used, not enough for when Shaq is missing. J.J., who is now necessary to having a decent rotation, is now gone. You'd have to assume that Darnell and/or Leon would be put to good use. And we lose a backup point guard as well.

I don't like it. Clearly, West is the winning piece but we lose our 3 rotational players (assuming West had his head on that day) and the rotation takes a setback. That's bad when you want to have as many victories during the season as possible.

I think we can do better nime, please give it another shot...
 
That's crazy. We need MORE less than useful swingmen for our roster? David's the only one who really can be used well. James Posey and Julian Wright will only clog up the swingman chart on our roster that already has A.P., Moon, LBJ, Danny. And what's worse is that the big man positions lose their luster. It goes back to three players used, not enough for when Shaq is missing. J.J., who is now necessary to having a decent rotation, is now gone. You'd have to assume that Darnell and/or Leon would be put to good use. And we lose a backup point guard as well.

I don't like it. Clearly, West is the winning piece but we lose our 3 rotational players (assuming West had his head on that day) and the rotation takes a setback. That's bad when you want to have as many victories during the season as possible.

I think we can do better nime, please give it another shot...

uh, we get a legit 2nd option in West to basically give the team its best starting lineup ever.

Mo, Parker, LBJ, West, Shaq

And then we take a look at our bench and we have

Gibson, Moon, Posey, Powe, and AV.

Also the team would have Danny Green, Julian Wright as 11 and 12 guys to develop with LBJ.

Not sure what you are thinking, but that is the best 10man in Cleveland's history and would instantly give the Cavs the beat chance to win it all this year. It would keep LBJ here with Mo and West coming back next year.

I make this trade without even thinking about it.
 
If West is our 2nd option we aren't going to get far... He is shooting 41% and plays with the best PG in the NBA. He is 29 years old and age is starting to show already. I'd rather keep Hickson and trade Z for a young center or SG.

Hickson + Young Center or a SG > West Thats not even counting Hickson's upside...
 

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