Amare Stoudemire - Lights Out

[Benny08302]

Re: Amare Stoudemire

This is completely different than Marion, Amare is a legitimate 24-28ppg player and has done damage in the half-court. He wasnt complaining when they were winning, he's upset right now because the offense is running through Shaq which is a joke. How many teams has Shaq poisoned with his customary "I need my touches" mantra? I'll admit Amare isnt giving 100% effort, but it's due in large part because Shaq is the feature of the offense, Amare went from being the go to guy, to 2nd or 3rd fiddle now behind two aging dinosaurs that cant bring it nightly.

How can you say he doesnt get it? He's never had a coach on Mike Brown's level when it comes to teaching defense, and he even said D'Antoni only had them working on offensive drills, rarely if ever defense. I dont judge players off of one game, he's proven he can be a legitimate 2nd option in the past, a primetime scorer.

Look, I don't think the guy sucks. Obviously, he's a really really talented scorer and rebounder (and I'll readily admit that I've never been a big Amare fan).

I just think that the only way the Cavs get him is if they pay through the nose. And I don't think he's a guy you sell the farm for. I'm honestly surprised that he's even on the block to begin with (there's been rumblings of Amare for Bosh amongst other rumors). The fact that Phoenix isn't looking to make him The Guy once Shaq and Nash retire is telling IMO.

You find me a way to get him for cheap and I'm on board (with reservations). But I wonder how A) he'll do outside of Phoenix B) if he can become a defensive presence (or just "not terrible" defensively)

(and I'm not judging him off of one game. Just pointing out that they needed him that game and he didn't show up).

 

[Lyuokdea]

Re: Amare Stoudemire

I'm kind of an idiot.....since we still have szczerbiak, you can make use of that to save varejao.... something like this (with a couple picks sent to Charlotte)

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...1~568~1026&teams=5~21~30~21~30~5~21&te=&cash=


if you wanted a deal that phoenix actually probably would accept (if they're looking to trade amare) you can do this:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...~1026&teams=5~5~21~30~21~30~21~5~21&te=&cash=


I know people don't like giving up a lot of talent, or ripping up a team that's going together so well, but it's the top three or 4 players that win championships, not depth (look at Boston last year).... LBJ/Amare/Z/Mo is really about as good as it gets at the top (and with Delonte/Gibson/Wallace) we still have better depth than the Celtics had last year.

Anyway, i don't really think that this deal will happen...but these are the best deals i could think of.

~Lyuokdea

 

[glockcoma]

Re: Amare Stoudemire

To say you don't want him if we could get him at a fair price (or because you don't want to lose JJ ) is ridiculous.

When did I say I didn't want him? I just said I thought Phoenix would ask too much for him.

 

[Walter White]

Re: Amare Stoudemire

I'm kind of an idiot.....since we still have szczerbiak, you can make use of that to save varejao.... something like this (with a couple picks sent to Charlotte)

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...1~568~1026&teams=5~21~30~21~30~5~21&te=&cash=


if you wanted a deal that phoenix actually probably would accept (if they're looking to trade amare) you can do this:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...~1026&teams=5~5~21~30~21~30~21~5~21&te=&cash=


I know people don't like giving up a lot of talent, or ripping up a team that's going together so well, but it's the top three or 4 players that win championships, not depth (look at Boston last year).... LBJ/Amare/Z/Mo is really about as good as it gets at the top (and with Delonte/Gibson/Wallace) we still have better depth than the Celtics had last year.

Anyway, i don't really think that this deal will happen...but these are the best deals i could think of.

~Lyuokdea

JJ is the only one Im sad about losing in those trades..... in that second one with Wally...is it possible to take out JJ and give them a first rounder instead.

 

[MYoung23]

Re: Amare Stoudemire

I wouldnt want Stoudemire and it has nothing to do with his game or talent.


For years I have heard nothing but bad things about him in the locker room. The Suns were winning 60 games and Stoudemire would bitch about shots, touches, credit etc along with Shawn Marion who would do the same thing.

The Suns as an organization under D'Antoni put up with it and hid it.


Now with D'Antoni gone you still have Stoudemire complaining about his role, the style of play (even though Phoenix is 7th in pace) and what it does to his game and his stats.

All the while you now have 2 different coaching staffs begging the guy to give a more an effort defensively and to not slack on the boards.

The Cavaliers solar system revolves around LeBron James. Nothing in Stoudemire's history suggests that he would be accepting of how things are done in Cleveland. Nothing.

He seems like a selfish player who is ultimately unwilling to do what it takes to win a championship. Winning doesnt soothe him. Playing with great players doesnt soothe him. Money hasnt soothed him. Being an All Star hasnt soothed him. The only consistent thing is that he wants more shots and touches to put up more stats and get the more fame he thinks he needs to attain.

 

[Lyuokdea]

Re: Amare Stoudemire

JJ is the only one Im sad about losing in those trades..... in that second one with Wally...is it possible to take out JJ and give them a first rounder instead.

Truthfully, i think losing AV is worse.... JJ becomes kind of redundant if you already have Amare.... if we kept JJ i'd want to turn around and trade him and somebody else for a big time defensive Center who would fit better with Amare anyway.

~Lyuokdea

 

[-Akronite-]

Re: Amare Stoudemire

When did I say I didn't want him? I just said I thought Phoenix would ask too much for him.

I wasn't directing that at you, just some of the people (look right above) that seriously see JJ as a deal breaker for Amare freaking Stoudemire.

 

[Walter White]

Re: Amare Stoudemire

Truthfully, i think losing AV is worse.... JJ becomes kind of redundant if you already have Amare.... if we kept JJ i'd want to turn around and trade him and somebody else for a big time defensive Center who would fit better with Amare anyway.

~Lyuokdea

True.....but there is NO way we couldnt give up andy to have any chance of getting Amare.

 

[Megamansilly]

Re: Amare Stoudemire

I'd bother offer that for bosh... if we are going to give up all that.

 

[Mr2400]

Re: Amare Stoudemire

Look, I don't think the guy sucks. Obviously, he's a really really talented scorer and rebounder (and I'll readily admit that I've never been a big Amare fan).

I just think that the only way the Cavs get him is if they pay through the nose. And I don't think he's a guy you sell the farm for. I'm honestly surprised that he's even on the block to begin with (there's been rumblings of Amare for Bosh amongst other rumors). The fact that Phoenix isn't looking to make him The Guy once Shaq and Nash retire is telling IMO.

You find me a way to get him for cheap and I'm on board (with reservations). But I wonder how A) he'll do outside of Phoenix B) if he can become a defensive presence (or just "not terrible" defensively)

(and I'm not judging him off of one game. Just pointing out that they needed him that game and he didn't show up).

Amare a good rebounder? Now that is comedy.

The suns aren't going to try and make him the guy because he isn't that caliber of player. He doesn't play defense, he doesn't rebound, and he has a very very low basketball I.Q. He hasn't developed into a franchise player, which is what the suns wanted him to be. I, as a phoenix fan, am not surprised at all to see him on the block, though I know there was never a legit rumor about amare for bosh. That would be stupid on the part of Toronto. I hope he is traded.


Edit: A few stats on Amare's rebounding

.21 rebounds per minute for amare
.29 for Ben
.27 for Z
.26 for Andy

Against other PF's

David Lee- 16 reb
Amare- 4

Garnett- 8
Amare- 1

Bosh- 12
Amare 6


And that's only the last 3 games (before the loss to charlotte).

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Re: Amare Stoudemire

The only way we would be able to acquire Bosh or Amare before THIS DEADLINE is by doing something like

Delonte, AV, JJ, Wally, 09 first, 2011 first for Amare/Dragic or Bosh/Kapono.

Now, We'd still probably be dumb not to do it, but even those trades are pretty un-realistic.

 

[abuC]

Re: Amare Stoudemire

The fact that Phoenix isn't looking to make him The Guy once Shaq and Nash retire is telling IMO.
.

I think they're starting to realize he's not going to re-sign with them, and by the time Shaq and Nash contracts are up he will be a free agent. They bet the farm on Shaq, and his huge ego is getting in the way of what's right, and what's right is to run the offense through Amare.

 

[Mr2400]

Re: Amare Stoudemire

I think they're starting to realize he's not going to re-sign with them, and by the time Shaq and Nash contracts are up he will be a free agent. They bet the farm on Shaq, and his huge ego is getting in the way of what's right, and what's right is to run the offense through Amare.

you couldn't be further off. most phoenix fans would laugh at this. They aren't trying to trade him because they feel he won't resign. he doesn't care about winning, wants to have fun, and wants to score a lot. That's all. Shaq's ego has absolutely nothing to do with the situation in Phoenix. In fact, Phoenix fans think Shaq is the team's mvp. He hasn't been egotistical at all since the trade. He's been the most consistent player on the team by far, and he wants to win. Running the offense through Amare is not the right thing to do by any stretch of the imagination. He scored 12 points on 5-14 shooting against the friggin bobcats. How about 3 points on 0-7 from the field against Boston? He's inconsistent, and the suns never know what to expect from him. Some games he cares, and others he doesn't. Phoenix fans wonder if Amare has given up on the team, even.

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f7/has-amare-mailed-it-in-126508.html


http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f7/shaq-for-mvp-126641.html

 

[diversebeats]

Re: Amare Stoudemire

Would do that trade in the original post... But no way the suns do it.... people on this forum seem to have a fetish for trying to get stars from teams that will no way in hell give them up.

 

[abuC]

Re: Amare Stoudemire

you couldn't be further off. most phoenix fans would laugh at this. They aren't trying to trade him because they feel he won't resign. he doesn't care about winning, wants to have fun, and wants to score a lot. That's all. Shaq's ego has absolutely nothing to do with the situation in Phoenix. In fact, Phoenix fans think Shaq is the team's mvp. He hasn't been egotistical at all since the trade. He's been the most consistent player on the team by far, and he wants to win. Running the offense through Amare is not the right thing to do by any stretch of the imagination. He scored 12 points on 5-14 shooting against the friggin bobcats. How about 3 points on 0-7 from the field against Boston? He's inconsistent, and the suns never know what to expect from him. Some games he cares, and others he doesn't. Phoenix fans wonder if Amare has given up on the team, even.

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f7/has-amare-mailed-it-in-126508.html


http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f7/shaq-for-mvp-126641.html

I already said Amare isnt giving 100% effort, and it's clearly because he's frustrated with the offense. The Suns need to justify their trade for Shaq so they have catered their entire team to him, from offensive philosophy to personnel. Amare was 5-14 against the Bobcats, what's your point? Chris Bosh was 6-18 against the Thunder, the Cavs better not go after him! It's obvious that Amare has quit on the Suns, that doesnt mean he wouldnt play hard for the Cavs, it just means he's frustrated right now and I dont blame him. Running the offense through Amare makes sense, simply because he actually plays full-time, he doesnt take the second night of back to backs off to rest.


As for Shaq not being egotistical? Please, here's the usual Shaq and his "touches" nonsense, which is another way of him asking for the ball.

“I can but I’ve got to get the opportunities. I’m not really the first option on this team but when I get it down there, I’ll do what I do. Like I told everybody, ‘You want me to be Shaq?’ Then I’ve got to get the Shaq touches and Shaq opportunities. I just can’t be taking five shots . . . and then you look at me like I’m old. I could average 27 and 10 until I’m 50.”