Cavaliers, Mavericks and Bobcats interested in DeMarcus Cousins

[Nathan S]

I'm a huge Andy fan as well. Just don't love where the trends of age and his injury history(it's not just the last 3 years) are headed. I also wonder about this: Andy is a hard worker. And a lead by example guy. But as a guy from a different country, I wonder how much of a leader and mentor he can be for our young guys. Is there a culture disconnect or has he now been over here and in the league that he can connect with everyone in the locker room.

When someone brought up the ridiculous notion of #1& Andy for Cousins, I cringed. Way too much.

But if Sacramento called, offered Cousins straight up for Andy and no picks, and gave me one hour to get back to them with an answer, I'm going to spend a hard hour thinking about not the last 3 years or next year, but the next five years, and the talent necessary to win championships. I'm going to dig deep and wonder about the coaching staff that's been set up and the front office, and what vet players(we need to do this regardless of adding someone like Cousins) we could add to create the right locker room, I'm probably going to call back at the end of the hour and take that deal. Might feel a little dirty about it, but will also feel a ton of optimism about the talent I just added to the team and the options that had just been opened up with the #1, #19, 31, and 33 + FA

I can see that. I agree that it's not clear cut. I would hate to be Chris Grant in that situation...If you bring in Cousins, there's a chance he continues to be a headcase, tears apart the lockerroom, and remains stubbornly lazy and inconsistent on the court, and the Cavs drift into perpetual 6-8 seed mediocrity while a healthy Varejao stars next to Wiggins on an up-and-coming Kings team with a revitalized, winning culture. If you pass on Cousins, there's a chance that two years from now Varejao's retired while Cousins is making all-star teams for someone else. There's no easy answer.

I was initially thinking of the keep-Andy option as the "safe" option and the get-Cousins option as the "risky" option, but it's not quite so clear cut, looking at it now.

 

[MirORich]

I can see that. I agree that it's not clear cut. I would hate to be Chris Grant in that situation...If you bring in Cousins, there's a chance he continues to be a headcase, tears apart the lockerroom, and remains stubbornly lazy and inconsistent on the court, and the Cavs drift into perpetual 6-8 seed mediocrity while a healthy Varejao stars next to Wiggins on an up-and-coming Kings team with a revitalized, winning culture. If you pass on Cousins, there's a chance that two years from now Varejao's retired while Cousins is making all-star teams for someone else. There's no easy answer.

99% likely it won't come to that. From the Sac perspective, if they do decide to move Cousins, they'll seek out a better package for them. Younger guys, draft picks , or guys under 30. Andy won't have the same value to them as he would to a contending team. So while we can have fun(?) debating the theoretical deal for days, pretty sure Grant will not have to spend any time debating the merits of an Andy for Cousins straight up deal.

As Wuck said, we should probably be more interested in what moves Sacramento makes in the draft and FA under new management and new coach Mike Malone. We don't need them to be great, just the 13-14 spot in next years draft or 11-14 spot in 2015,2016, or 2017.

 

[MirORich]

Or we need another team to come to believe that the Kings will be good enough to raise that pick's trade value. Rather than have it be seen a kind of throw-in pick, which is how many treat it now.

The Kings have had caretaker coaches and inadequate GM vision. I'd like to see them make some decisive moves this off-season, whatever those happen to be.

Wonder if our resident Mike Malone expert will be able to shed any light on that franchise as the months progress.

The main guy behind the new ownership group is thought of highly and just spent a fortune to buy the Kings. I have no doubt that he will be extra driven and focused to creating an environment that leads them to the playoffs within 4 years. What we want, is to be the beneficiary of that first bump/improvement they make before making the playoffs, so that we still end up with a pick in the 11-14 range.

I've never thought of that pick as a throw-in, just something we were going to have to be patient for. Even the worst franchises occasionally come up for air/catch fire and make the playoffs every ten years. The Kings have missed them for 7-8 years now. Their turn is coming soon.

 

[wuck]

Kings reporter, Dave Mason:

Source says DeMarcus Cousins was first person Vivek reached out to after the deal was approved.

Source says Cousins and Vivek are in constant contact and all talks are positive.


----

I'm moving this thread back to the Trade Forum until more news about Cousins' availability surfaces.

 

[HNR]

Cousins. Demarcus. :::Shakes head::: So much talent. He could make Dwight Howard look like a wanna-be. If only he was fully invested. Is Mike Brown the guy to get him there? Is Kyrie, Tristan and Dion the teammates to assist with that? Is Gilbert the right Owner?

Hypothetically, if DMC could become fully invested, and reach his full potential here, there is not a single player on our roster with his talent, and nobody I wouldn't part with. Just the facts. He may be an azzhole now, but if he became fully invested & reached his full potential, he is worth more than any other player in the NBA with the possible exception of LeBron - possible exception! I am not advocating a trade because it is too scary to think about the possible ramifications if DMC didn't change. If he did - wow. He is capable of 30/15 a night. He wont ever be a beast on defense. He is more Shaq than Dwight. Making the assumption Brown & co. could turn him around, and keeping in-mind the luxtax, and DMC's current reputation, here are a few scenarios where the Cavs could trade for him:

Note: For salary cap purposes, and the belief that there is no sure-fire future star in this draft class, I do not believe the Cavaliers want to make the first pick. I am of the opinion that the Cavaliers' front office believes that there is no player worthy of the first pick. Noel could be. Mclemore could be. Bennett could be. Porter could be. Len, Burke, etc. could be. The problem the Cavaliers' front office has (I believe)is that the general feeling is that the best player in this draft would go no higher than #3 in any of the 4-5 previous drafts. With the Salary cap structured the way it is, and with their goals, is it wise to pay #1 overall pick money to a player they don't fully believe in? With that in mind, here are some scenarios:

Scenario one

• To Sacramento:#1 and #19 , release rights to Sacramento 2014 1st round pick
• To Cleveland: Demarcus Cousins

Scenario two

• To Sacramento: #1, #19, Anderson Varejao
• To Cleveland: #7, Demarcus Cousins

Scenario three

• To Sacramento: #1, #13 (via Dallas), Release rights to 2014 Sac pick
• To Dallas: Alonzo Gee
• To Cleveland: Cousins, Marion

Scenario four

• To Sacramento: #1, #19, Anderson Varejao
• To Cleveland: Cousins, Kings lower restriction on 2014 1st rounder to #1 pick protection only.

Some of these may seem excessive, but they really aren't. player Age,ability,and ceiling, as well as Salary cap, and future flexibility are taken into consideration.

 

[Lyuokdea]

I like number 2 - we could take Len at #7 -- don't think Sacramento would go for it though. It's basically Varejao for #7 (compared to trade #1), and I don't see why they do that.

 

[cavfanintexas]

Andrew Bynum so much ability if he could just get his head straight and play up to his talent level

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Cousins. Demarcus. :::Shakes head:::He may be an azzhole now, but if he became fully invested & reached his full potential, he is worth more than any other player in the NBA with the possible exception of LeBron - possible exception! I am not advocating a trade because it is too scary to think about the possible ramifications if DMC didn't change. If he did - wow. He is capable of 30/15 a night. He wont ever be a beast on defense.

I think you're overestimating the guy. He may well be capable of 30/15 per night if he takes a lot of shots and ignores his defensive responsibilities to get a few more rebounds, but I'd really question how empty those numbers would be. He doesn't seem to be a guy who makes people around him better, and as you say, he "won't ever" be a beast on defense. Someone who isn't a beast on defense is never going to be more value than an LBJ who can dominate on both ends of the court.

 

[Triplethreat]

Andrew Bynum so much ability if he could just get his head straight and play up to his talent level

:chuckles:

Wtf?

The guy can't stay on the floor and has structural damage to his knees. His lack of production has no correlation to if his head is screwed on straight. He was being labeled as the best Center in the league just 2 years ago by some.

 

[cavfanintexas]

:chuckles:

Wtf?

The guy can't stay on the floor and has structural damage to his knees. His lack of production has no correlation to if his head is screwed on straight. He was being labeled as the best Center in the league just 2 years ago by some.

wtf he does not want to play just get paid, he is just not a asshole to his team mates

 

[HNR]

I think you're overestimating the guy. He may well be capable of 30/15 per night if he takes a lot of shots and ignores his defensive responsibilities to get a few more rebounds, but I'd really question how empty those numbers would be. He doesn't seem to be a guy who makes people around him better, and as you say, he "won't ever" be a beast on defense. Someone who isn't a beast on defense is never going to be more value than an LBJ who can dominate on both ends of the court.

I don't know about that. First, any Mike Brown coached player will never "ignore" their defensive responsibilities & get play time (unless there is nobody else to play). Second, I seem to remember Shaq always being questioned about his defense. Shaq is actually a pretty good comparison to Cousins. Would you take a dominate big man over a dominate SF? LeBron is special, but Cousins can be taught "good" defense. If he became a "good" defender (not dominate), and reached his potential on the other end of the court, he'd challenge for MVP's every year (assuming the behavior was in-check). And that is a fact, not a guess.

I like number 2 - we could take Len at #7 -- don't think Sacramento would go for it though. It's basically Varejao for #7 (compared to trade #1), and I don't see why they do that.

No, it is like trading Varejao + 19 + plus a 6-spot jump in the lottery for Cousins. And yes, if Sacramento decides to trade him, I think they'd jump on that deal. I think the Cavs would too.

My fear is this: My buddy & I were talking BS, trying to come up with the best moves for the cavs, etc, etc. My friend suggested the #1, #31, #33, + Tristan for Cousins + 7. That scares me because I could see the Cavs making that deal, and can see Malone endorsing it as well. If things went bad, we'd be set back 2 years.

 

[Nathan S]

Shaq is actually a pretty good comparison to Cousins.

The fuck?

 

[Scholar]

The fuck?

He just keeps shoveling it. I think everyone is gonna need waders in here soon it is starting to get so deep. I mean so far we've gotten "he's gonna be a 30/15 guy," "he's gonna be better then Lebron," and now we get "he's the next Shaq." Only place left for him to go is to start making GOAT comparisons to Jordan. :chuckles:

 

[MattyFos.]

Having Cousins around players with the work ethic of Thompson and Waiters can only help Cousins. Plus the leadership of Thompson and his character will do good things for Cousins. The Cavs need a player who isn't afraid to get in another players face. They just need said player to know where the line is and know how to toe it without getting ejected. But I support a Cousins trade if it is good value. The question is what would it take to get him.

 

[HNR]

He just keeps shoveling it. I think everyone is gonna need waders in here soon it is starting to get so deep. I mean so far we've gotten "he's gonna be a 30/15 guy," "he's gonna be better then Lebron," and now we get "he's the next Shaq." Only place left for him to go is to start making GOAT comparisons to Jordan. :chuckles:

Do not take my words out of context or re-arrange them to benefit your post. I never said "He's going to be a 30/15 guy". I said he has the talent to be. He does.

I never said he was better than LeBron, nor did I say he would be. I said "but if he became fully invested & reached his full potential, he is worth more than any other player in the NBA with the possible exception of LeBron" For clarity, since your reading comprehension is poor, I will make it clear for you. If Cousins reaches his potential, he'd be worth more than any other player currently in the NBA, with the possible exception of LeBron. I give LeBron latitude due to his post acumen both offensively & defensively at the 4 position. A great Center is almost always worth more than any other position-player on the court. LeBron may be an exception, Jordan, and Kobe (in their primes) too. But the rule still applies.

Finally, I never said he was the next Shaq. I said Shaq was a good comparison for Cousins, in the context of what I was talking about, ie: Talent. Cousins has the same offensive capability (perhaps slightly less) in the post, with the size & strength to knock every other center currently in the NBA on their ass. Cousin's defense is also comparable to Shaq's. Whereas Shaq had team-mates who could play the game at a high level and allow him to excel, and top-notch coaching. Shaq is an excellent comparison to Cousins. He [Cousins] is not the "next" Shaq. He is the first DMC!

Next time you want to critique a person's opinion, try doing it without taking liberties when quoting what they said.