Cavs Draft 2008

[bigtyme]

I think you are confusing finesse with soft.

Chris Mihm is soft. Z and Joe Smith finesse. By your definition guys like Kareem and McHale were soft.

I still dont understand this now stuff. No big man the Cavaliers draft will be anything more than a 4th big 5th if Varejao starts the season with the team.

Championships arent won or lost by what the 4th or 5th big man does. The Cavaliers are in position to wait on a player. They cant be held hostage by the fear of James leaving.

Because of the Jim Paxson Occupation the Cavaliers have been bereft of assets the past 3 years. Other teams like Detroit have been drafting and stocking young big men in preparation for when they have to transition from members of their aging core. Dumars doesnt whine or complain about draft position. He goes out and finds players whether it be at the end of the first or second round.

The last thing the Cavaliers need to do is get old around James and have young players that nobody wants because they are marginal.

Ferry has to start restocking the young talent base on the team with guys who have potential to be NBA starters on good teams not just simply rotation players.

The win now part of the Cavaliers will come in trades not from the draft. This organization will have to focus on player development rather than banking everything on using expiring contracts in trades. You can forget about free agency because regardless of LeBron James and that lavish practice facility this is still Cleveland and all things being equal players are going to pick the coasts and warm weather over the Cavaliers.

I hear your argument and all... And I live in Vegas . But Posey wanted to sign with us this offseason but we chose to pursue Pavs instead. We didnt get it done in free agency. Ive always liked Ferry and nothing thats happened thus far makes me hate the man. He, Lebron and MB all share the same goal and have all stated they like the team... but want to get better.

At 19 maybe we missed a gem, maybe we got a solid contributor. Maybe we got a sleeper stud. Who knows til they lace them up. But most teams that win it these days get their pieces in free agency, not the draft. SA is probably the only example of a team drafting its peices. Boston, Chicago, Detroit, LA got their major peices in FA. Some of these picks will still be on the move. Some players who may or may not have been projected will be working out and evaluated in the offseason. Josh Duncan may be one to consider.

 

[Chardon]

Ill wait untill the season starts. BUT ITS SO FAR AWAY

 

[bigtyme]

I think this was the one time I mentioned JJ, it was right after I had gotten back from watching him and workng him out in mid May, and he stood out like a sore thumb in terms of his work ethic, bull doggedness ....just really opened ny eyes as to being a guy that seemed tho be under the radar and needed to be looked at alot closer.

This is the first time I think I've actually had a guy open my eyes, tipped the scouting staff off on the guy, and we ended up on the same page.

I know he wasn't a well publicized and highly ranked kid ...not nearly as high as I thought he should be quite frankly ...he played on a very poor team and I think that plays alot into it as well...

I think when all is said and done this guy will be a guy that you will all grow to appreciate..... exactly the type player we have needed for some time here, in my opinion....

But, don't be surprised if some deals get done ... I seealot of teams out there that have inbalanced rosters that they will need adjustments made to them .... gotta run ...I'll be arounfd to explain more later on tomorrow after the camp closes out ...

Appreciate the insight. I seem to recall you talking about Hickson in terms of the D-league and a player we might take in the 2nd round as a project. Did something change? Or were you sandbagging, while giving us a hint?

Personally, I like the pick and I can see exactly where the front office was going with this pick. Teams like Bos and Det have been stocking up on young bigs for years and those bigs paid dividends for both teams this post season. I think its also fairly obvious is that teams dont trade bigs with JJ's skill set. They especially do not trade them to the Cavs. We got Booz with a late pick and this pick seems to be right along those lines. In fact, I like this guy better than booz on paper.

Unless something changes I expect to see more roster movement, which could push JJ into an early spot in the rotation, which I hope is the case. I like to see young players getting minutes and learning on the job.

Another thing that may get lost... Young unproven bigs like Jackson, Hickson and Kaun seem to become valuable assets once theyve been on the roster for almost a year. People seem to forget or to not know, maybe because of a lack of evaluation, how limited some players are. Every year you see teams with a bunch of excess bigs shipping them out mid season for picks and cash because other teams have injuries and then overreact.

We picked up 3 bigs and there is a ton of potential talent in the undrafted pool. We might enter the season with more trade assets than we thought at first.

I also like that Ferry worked out a ton of players this year. The draft was so deep and even that some players were bound to fall through the cracks. Last season we picked up a few players who never really worked for us and over the past few years weve missed on a few that we could have possibly had; Anthony Parker, Jamario Moon. This season I expect Ferry to be much more in tune with whats actually out there and how it could possibly impact us. I think the possibility still remains that we sign a contributing piece from this years undrafted or players drafted in the 2nd round who were released.

 

[Wine and Gold]

Appreciate the insight. I seem to recall you talking about Hickson in terms of the D-league and a player we might take in the 2nd round as a project. Did something change? Or were you sandbagging, while giving us a hint?

Hickson I never saw as a second round type talent ....he's definitely a 1st round player, even raw. But, I think what I posted was for people to look into talented bigs down the rankings, because with having our new Erie affiliate, we would be looking to take on some developmental projects that in past seasons we may not have ...

Hickson has alot of growth left to achieve, but, he's a tireless worker, and extrmely coachable, so, I feel very good about is ultimate development at this level.

 

[bigtyme]

Thanks for the reply!

 

[Ron Mexic]

No problem - any time!

 

[Randolphkeys]

Hickson I never saw as a second round type talent ....he's definitely a 1st round player, even raw. But, I think what I posted was for people to look into talented bigs down the rankings, because with having our new Erie affiliate, we would be looking to take on some developmental projects that in past seasons we may not have ...

Hickson has alot of growth left to achieve, but, he's a tireless worker, and extrmely coachable, so, I feel very good about is ultimate development at this level.

I responded to Wine and Gold back when he asked for opinions on Hickson, and I said "Second round talent that might pay off but only if he improves." If the Cavs say he has the mental makeup and work ethic, then Hickson was the right choice. I was still shocked they didn't say "Koufos," because a connection I have had for years told me he was the guy if a few others were off the board. I guess W & G is more reliable.

We needed youth, scoring and toughness from the 4/5 position, and we might just have it.

 

[Wine and Gold]

I responded to Wine and Gold back when he asked for opinions on Hickson, and I said "Second round talent that might pay off but only if he improves." If the Cavs say he has the mental makeup and work ethic, then Hickson was the right choice. I was still shocked they didn't say "Koufos," because a connection I have had for years told me he was the guy if a few others were off the board. I guess W & G is more reliable.

We needed youth, scoring and toughness from the 4/5 position, and we might just have it.

Not necassarily ...actually, I was sitting there in front of my TV watching the draft and when the pick right before us went off the board and it was McGee ..I was like sitting there and I had my post where I said we were going to be taking Hickson all typed out and I was ready to click it and send it off, and then I'm thinking to myself ....hold on now, I'm not so sure because we never anticipated Koufos and the Kansas kid still being on he board as well.... right then I get a call on my cell with about a minute before our time is expired for our pick and it's MM, and he's pumped up, and excited and at that point I didn't have a doubt, because he was probably the one guy that was more with the Hickson selection than even me ....he said "We got our bulldog, we got our bulldog" !! LMAO ...

I'm sure Mike and I will both be very intinately involved in the development of this kid ...and I look forward to it, because he's a guy that has no issues with putting the time in the reach his goal. When I worked him out for the first time he was talking about how he'd love to have the opporunity to work with Lebron, and was asking how Lebron was with bringing the other Cavs players with him and working out and lifting etc ... because he is just one of those kids that is driven, and is a gym rat ..

I asked him about his personal life and it was like he looked around the gym and had a big smile on his face and said, "This is it man, this is my life" ...you gotta love that, and everyone I talked to on the State staff concurred ...he was hands down the hardest worker on the team.

Intellignece wise, he may not have been the best student, and he's didn't have the best schooling through his high school years ..I mean he never was a poor student but, he, at a young age had to learn how to study ..and he's doen that, and actually had better grading as a college freshman than he had as a high schooler ..and when you see that, and you know how tough that transition is for kids going from high school to college and being their own for the first time ...you appreciate that.

So many kids with ability basically leave school now after the freshamn season because they basically rode out their studies their first year and wouldn't be academically eligible the sophomore year, that wsn't the cae with this kid ...he could have, and probbly should have stayed in, but that's wayer under the bridge. No way we would have ever been able to get him next year ..he would have been too high a pick for us to land...

It will be interesting to see what angle we decide to take in his development ..whether we keep him in Cleveland, or take him to Erie...if he's in Erie I would guess that I would ask for the opportunity to mentor this kid, I actually have ties to Erie with my daughter and her new husband ...we could set him up in nice temporary living accomodations (with me basically) and I would love the opportunity to take him under my wing and help develop him ...

But, back to my response to your post ...Koufos could have easily been the choice ...the decision to go Hickson wasn't a 100% lock ...

 

[ClevelandFanati]

W&G: What are your expectations for Hickson in 2008-2009? How long before he is ready to contribute off the bench? As a starter? Thanks!

 

[bigtyme]

If this kid is the bulldog you guys say he is, im excited.

 

[Wine and Gold]

W&G: What are your expectations for Hickson in 2008-2009? How long before he is ready to contribute off the bench? As a starter? Thanks!

I honestly can't predict anythinfg of that nature yet ...but as time passes I'll let you guys know how he's developing and where I see he's at in terms of PT.

 

[TyGuy]

As of now obviously hickson is coming off the bench. From there he can dictate his pt for the rest of the year but I wouldn't expect the guy to come in right away and start if some people were thinking that.

 

[CBBI]

As of now obviously hickson is coming off the bench. From there he can dictate his pt for the rest of the year but I wouldn't expect the guy to come in right away and start if some people were thinking that.

I'm sure it's all going to depend on what the coaching staff feels Hickson is ready for. Obviously, he's going to be coming off the bench for at least 1 year and probably 2.

Here's what other big men picked in Hickson's range last year got in terms of minutes per game last year.

Sean Williams: 17.5 MPG
Jason Smith: 14.5 MPG
Jared Dudley: 19.0 MPG
Carl Landry: 16.9 MPG

Ideally you would like to see Hickson playing 10-15 minutes a night this year but it's all going to depends on what he's ready for.

 

[ClevelandFanati]

As of now obviously hickson is coming off the bench. From there he can dictate his pt for the rest of the year but I wouldn't expect the guy to come in right away and start if some people were thinking that.

Just so it's clear, I wasn't suggesting that he would be a starter this season. I asked how long before W&G thinks he could get PT and ultimately be a starter? (i.e. next season, two years, etc.)

 

[clebron]

Here's what other big men picked in Hickson's range last year got in terms of minutes per game last year.

Sean Williams: 17.5 MPG
Jason Smith: 14.5 MPG
Jared Dudley: 19.0 MPG
Carl Landry: 16.9 MPG

None of those guys were freshmen or even sophs