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Cleveland Browns Quarterback Position

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There is a first time for everything, but if all 4 of the top qbs have good careers it would be the first time in relevant history that's ever happened. Closest we've come is the 2004 draft where Eli, Rivers, and Ben all hit. JP Losman spoiled it though.

In fact that's the only time the top THREE were hits. Let alone 4. Unless you want to count Jason Campbell as a 3rd hit behind Alex Smith and Rodgers in 2005.

History tells us at least one of these guys will bust. In the years 4 or more QBs were drafted in the 1st:

2012 - Weeden
2011 - Locker, Gabbert, and Ponder
2004 - Losman
1999 - Akili Smith, Cade McCown, (Couch)
1987 - Stouffer
1983 - Blackledge, Eason



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Allen is a day 3 QB
I would love to take you up on that bet. Start looking around the league and start putting down on paper where the starting qb'' and backups went to school at. It is not the Ohio State or Florida type of schools. Most of the guys on rosters were hardly ever very well known.

I am new to the board and don't want to be an ass, but your statement is laughable. Although Mel Kiper jr. isn't always right on, he is not usually very far off and has him going #1. McShay has him going top 2 qb's, Mike Maycock has him as his #2 qb in the draft. I could keep going but I think I made my point. The draft changes all the time, so one never really knows. But I feel the farthest he goes is the 4th qb taken. And if he does the combine, his draft status will only go up. He will blow them away. And more than one draft guru has said that. The kid is a winner and a competitor. He has never been given anything. He played baseball, football and basketball in high school and worked in the summers. He didn't have time to go to qb schools like Darnold and Rosen. He wasn't groomed like they were. He didn't get one div.1 scholly offer out of high school. And only two out of the JC he went to. Fresno State wouldn't even let him walk on. And after two years at Wyoming he has talk about him going #1. That alone tells you the kid is special. Wait until he gets a good qb coach under him. It probably won't be overnight that he starts playing to his potential, but he will sooner than later. The kid is a winner. It helps if you know a little about him, but most don't, so no big deal. Time will tell who is right on this one. I feel pretty confident, as much as one can when it comes to NFL qb's.
 
I would love to take you up on that bet. Start looking around the league and start putting down on paper where the starting qb'' and backups went to school at. It is not the Ohio State or Florida type of schools. Most of the guys on rosters were hardly ever very well known.

I am new to the board and don't want to be an ass, but your statement is laughable. Although Mel Kiper jr. isn't always right on, he is not usually very far off and has him going #1. McShay has him going top 2 qb's, Mike Maycock has him as his #2 qb in the draft. I could keep going but I think I made my point. The draft changes all the time, so one never really knows. But I feel the farthest he goes is the 4th qb taken. And if he does the combine, his draft status will only go up. He will blow them away. And more than one draft guru has said that. The kid is a winner and a competitor. He has never been given anything. He played baseball, football and basketball in high school and worked in the summers. He didn't have time to go to qb schools like Darnold and Rosen. He wasn't groomed like they were. He didn't get one div.1 scholly offer out of high school. And only two out of the JC he went to. Fresno State wouldn't even let him walk on. And after two years at Wyoming he has talk about him going #1. That alone tells you the kid is special. Wait until he gets a good qb coach under him. It probably won't be overnight that he starts playing to his potential, but he will sooner than later. The kid is a winner. It helps if you know a little about him, but most don't, so no big deal. Time will tell who is right on this one. I feel pretty confident, as much as one can when it comes to NFL qb's.

Mel Kiper is a fucking joke, but Josh Allen also isn't a day 3 QB.

The truth lies somewhere in the middle. I don't really care about his background or not getting any offers or excusing his lack of progress based what we can readily define as horrible decision making from the pocket.

He's a bag of tools that someone will need to piece together.

He's not a "winner," he's never done that. There are worse QBs who have gone well before day three and he'll certainly be gone before the middle of round two at worst.

With that said, he's miles behind the Top 4 QBs in this class and that's inarguable at this stage.
 
I
There is a first time for everything, but if all 4 of the top qbs have good careers it would be the first time in relevant history that's ever happened. Closest we've come is the 2004 draft where Eli, Rivers, and Ben all hit. JP Losman spoiled it though.

In fact that's the only time the top THREE were hits. Let alone 4. Unless you want to count Jason Campbell as a 3rd hit behind Alex Smith and Rodgers in 2005.

History tells us at least one of these guys will bust. In the years 4 or more QBs were drafted in the 1st:

2012 - Weeden
2011 - Locker, Gabbert, and Ponder
2004 - Losman
1999 - Akili Smith, Cade McCown, (Couch)
1987 - Stouffer
1983 - Blackledge, Eason



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
I agree, 4 is pushing it. Just trying to be nice. I have my doubts on some of them. I know Allen is used to the pressure, that is all he knows behind his line. Lol. In four years of watching Wyoming's OC, I have seen him get in a rythem maybe 5 times when calling plays and keeping the defense on it's toes. And that is only until he gets a lead. Then he goes back to running clock, managing the game instead of throttling a team.
 
Ho
Mel Kiper is a fucking joke, but Josh Allen also isn't a day 3 QB.

The truth lies somewhere in the middle. I don't really care about his background or not getting any offers or excusing his lack of progress based what we can readily define as horrible decision making from the pocket.

He's a bag of tools that someone will need to piece together.

He's not a "winner," he's never done that. There are worse QBs who have gone well before day three and he'll certainly be gone before the middle of round two at worst.

With that said, he's miles behind the Top 4 QBs in this class and that's inarguable at this stage.
How is he not a winner? Look at Wyoming's record with him and without him. It is not like they had much success there in years. Allen took them to back to back bowls. Something that hasn't happened there for a very long time. I agree somebody will have to put him together. So what did you say when they were talking Wentz as number 1? I have time to wait and see how Allen turns out. I have watched the guy a lot and know his weaknesses and his strengths. I didn't just read about him or get a quick look. Allen needs some coaching up, but I think he is getting it and will continue to progress. If I am wrong no big deal, most of the people out there want him to fail because he didn't play at a big school. He loves being underated.
 
2012 - Weeden
2011 - Locker, Gabbert, and Ponder
2004 - Losman
1999 - Akili Smith, Cade McCown, (Couch)
1987 - Stouffer
1983 - Blackledge, Eason

There is a very good chance the hype won't match the production with one or two of these guys. Sometimes injury or development get in the way. Usually what I've seen is that a second or third tier QB prospect with some serious drawbacks gets lumped in with the top tier, and a team desperate for an answer long-term at the position talks themselves into that glaring hole being fixable. We were desperate when the Browns took a stab at Quinn, looking past his weak tools. The Browns hoped Kizer's mechanics and accuracy were fixable. Other teams were less desperate and saw them as backups.

But the Browns are picking number one, and it's a whole different kind of strategy.
 
I would love to take you up on that bet. Start looking around the league and start putting down on paper where the starting qb'' and backups went to school at. It is not the Ohio State or Florida type of schools. Most of the guys on rosters were hardly ever very well known.

I am new to the board and don't want to be an ass, but your statement is laughable. Although Mel Kiper jr. isn't always right on, he is not usually very far off and has him going #1. McShay has him going top 2 qb's, Mike Maycock has him as his #2 qb in the draft. I could keep going but I think I made my point. The draft changes all the time, so one never really knows. But I feel the farthest he goes is the 4th qb taken. And if he does the combine, his draft status will only go up. He will blow them away. And more than one draft guru has said that. The kid is a winner and a competitor. He has never been given anything. He played baseball, football and basketball in high school and worked in the summers. He didn't have time to go to qb schools like Darnold and Rosen. He wasn't groomed like they were. He didn't get one div.1 scholly offer out of high school. And only two out of the JC he went to. Fresno State wouldn't even let him walk on. And after two years at Wyoming he has talk about him going #1. That alone tells you the kid is special. Wait until he gets a good qb coach under him. It probably won't be overnight that he starts playing to his potential, but he will sooner than later. The kid is a winner. It helps if you know a little about him, but most don't, so no big deal. Time will tell who is right on this one. I feel pretty confident, as much as one can when it comes to NFL qb's.
I would take that bet but I know too well that the NFL is full of morons who will fall in love with him. The guy is a flat out project, hence why I said day 3 QB.
 
The Browns have made a habit of taking overrated prospects who were sliding on draft day. Those prospects slid during the draft for good reasons. When on the Browns, their development was stunted by a bad team around them.

The reason I have optimism is that the Browns have better scouts and picking at the top. This pick will be unlike Anderson, Quinn, Frye, Colt, Weeden, Jonny, Kizer, and the other heavily flawed developmental prospects of the past.

How they handle the developmental QB will be the line between the future of the franchise and Tim Couch all over again.

To me the way we got Anderson, Frye, McCoy weren’t all that bad. We have to avoid drafting a QB at 22 since that number is cursed for QB drafting for us.

Couch never had a line and had some good seasons, but we didn’t put good pieces around him to begin with. Dorsey may like to freelance to much at times as a GM, but he at least knows what he is doing overall. Like he seems to make smart football decisions and that’s what we really need right now. Once Mahomes starts then we will truly know, but I am sure Reid would have been adamantly opposed to starting Mahomes if he wasn’t at least close to being ready to start and wouldn’t have been publicly okay with trading Smith. But overall I think this situation is at least setup right for the future. Now they just gotta make the right choices in free agency and on day 1 and day 2 to really get this team turned around.
 
I would take that bet but I know too well that the NFL is full of morons who will fall in love with him. The guy is a flat out project, hence why I said day 3 QB.

He isn’t as much of a project as you guys are actually projecting. He can play a pro style offense (he was under center more than anyone but maybe Rosen overall) and if he goes to a strong supporting cast he would surprise a lot of people. It would be the speed and timing that he would have to get used to. On paper I would love to see him go to the Steelers and become Big Ben’s replacement in a season or two. That would likely be the place he would shine the most overall.
 
To me the way we got Anderson, Frye, McCoy weren’t all that bad.

I don't feel there's a lot of support for this statement. They ended up career backups miscast as starters. Years of other players were wasted grooming them to be what they could never become. I like the fact the Browns are set up for a more successful process for preparing the right guy for the QB job, probably best setup in a generation.
 
Ho

How is he not a winner? Look at Wyoming's record with him and without him. It is not like they had much success there in years. Allen took them to back to back bowls. Something that hasn't happened there for a very long time. I agree somebody will have to put him together. So what did you say when they were talking Wentz as number 1? I have time to wait and see how Allen turns out. I have watched the guy a lot and know his weaknesses and his strengths. I didn't just read about him or get a quick look. Allen needs some coaching up, but I think he is getting it and will continue to progress. If I am wrong no big deal, most of the people out there want him to fail because he didn't play at a big school. He loves being underated.

Craig Bohl is a good coach who turned that program around, that doesn't make Josh Allen a winner.

Going 8-5 isn't something to hang your hat on as a QB, and means next to nothing for the next level.

Wentz, and Allen, are going where they are because they're big guys with a strong arm. Wentz is obviously light years ahead of Allen as a prospect, but however far Allen goes will have nothing to do with how much he won or didn't win at Wyoming. No more than Ben Roethlisberger's record at Miami matters.
 
I would take that bet but I know too well that the NFL is full of morons who will fall in love with him. The guy is a flat out project, hence why I said day 3 QB.
Just curious, how much "tape" have you seen on Josh Allen? What makes you smarter than the talking heads? I will give you the argument the talking heads don't know shit most of the time. For them it is more about getting people to read their blogs or tweets etc. Trying to break in to the media world. Like I asked AZ, what were you saying about Wentz, before and after he got drafted?

In the college game the QB is usually slotted into a system and he either does well in that system or doesn't. Ohio State is a good one to look at for that. I have followed Urban Meyers career as he is one of the better offensive minds in college football. Urban likes to use a QB that can run the ball, he even did it with Smith at Utah. Tebow at Florida. Most pro teams shudder at their qb's running the ball. Too much money invested in them. Pro qb's mostly manage games if they have all the parts in place. Look at Dallas last year and then look at them one year later missing a few pieces to the puzzle. Night and day. Every now and then you have a Brett Favre come along, but not very often. A lot of qb's are like Manning of the Giants. He manages games, if he has the right pieces. Even Peyton won a title with Denver , hurt to the point where he looked like a 3rd string qb. He managed that game.

Not saying Allen is a Favre, but he has a lot of the traits and a lot of announcers used them as comparisons during televised games. But Allen can throw any pass out there. His biggest knock was he had no touch. He dispelled that at the Senior Bowl. I like Mayfield after watching him practice for 3 days at the Senior Bowl. He is a natural leader. But most people are hating on him comparing him to Manziel. His height might catch up to him every now and then, as I saw it happen in the Senior Bowl. But his playmaking ability and leadership might overtake that. I have seen Darnold and Rosen on tv, but hard to tell from that small of a sample. It helps that Rosen played in a Pro offense like Allen. Allen has some catching up to do, but physically he has all the tools and then some.

I just shake my head when us fans say the NFL people are idiots. They have all the numbers and video plus seeing in person and interviews with the prospects and still miss out on players. And their job is on the line. We can just sit back and second guess all day. The great part of being on a fan board I guess. If we are wrong someone on the board might remember it down the road and throw it in our face. Big whoop. I remember when Wentz got drafted and most everyone said the same thing, he is not even playing in D1. They were pretty much saying the same thing you are right now. Funny how few come back and eat crow.
 
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Craig Bohl is a good coach who turned that program around, that doesn't make Josh Allen a winner.

Going 8-5 isn't something to hang your hat on as a QB, and means next to nothing for the next level.

Wentz, and Allen, are going where they are because they're big guys with a strong arm. Wentz is obviously light years ahead of Allen as a prospect, but however far Allen goes will have nothing to do with how much he won or didn't win at Wyoming. No more than Ben Roethlisberger's record at Miami matters.

No sense in arguing with a guy who thinks he knows everything. I know the Wyoming program upside and down. You only think you do. Without Allen they wouldn't have won 3 games. Bohl is good, but he has the crappiest OC in the business that is holding him back. And two of those losses Allen didn't play. If you ever do start knowing more about Bohl , or Wyoming, or Allen for that matter, is the day I bow down to you. I think I am safe for now. I may be new to this board, but I am not to sports.
 
Just curious, how much "tape" have you seen on Josh Allen? What makes you smarter than the talking heads? I will give you the argument the talking heads don't know shit most of the time. For them it is more about getting people to read their blogs or tweets etc. Trying to break in to the media world. Like I asked AZ, what were you saying about Wentz, before and after he got drafted?

In the college game the QB is usually slotted into a system and he either does well in that system or doesn't. Ohio State is a good one to look at for that. I have followed Urban Meyers career as he is one of the better offensive minds in college football. Urban likes to use a QB that can run the ball, he even did it with Smith at Utah. Tebow at Florida. Most pro teams shudder at their qb's running the ball. Too much money invested in them. Pro qb's mostly manage games if they have all the parts in place. Look at Dallas last year and then look at them one year later missing a few pieces to the puzzle. Night and day. Every now and then you have a Brett Favre come along, but not very often. A lot of qb's are like Manning of the Giants. He manages games, if he has the right pieces. Even Peyton won a title with Denver , hurt to the point where he looked like a 3rd string qb. He managed that game.

Not saying Allen is a Favre, but he has a lot of the traits and a lot of announcers used them as comparisons during televised games. But Allen can throw any pass out there. His biggest knock was he had no touch. He dispelled that at the Senior Bowl. I like Mayfield after watching him practice for 3 days at the Senior Bowl. He is a natural leader. But most people are hating on him comparing him to Manziel. His height might catch up to him every now and then, as I saw it happen in the Senior Bowl. But his playmaking ability and leadership might overtake that. I have seen Darnold and Rosen on tv, but hard to tell from that small of a sample. It helps that Rosen played in a Pro offense like Allen. Allen has some catching up to do, but physically he has all the tools and then some.

I just shake my head when us fans say the NFL people are idiots. They have all the numbers and video plus seeing in person and interviews with the prospects and still miss out on players. And their job is on the line. We can just sit back and second guess all day. The great part of being on a fan board I guess. If we are wrong someone on the board might remember it down the road and throw it in our face. Big whoop. I remember when Wentz got drafted and most everyone said the same thing, he is not even playing in D1. They were pretty much saying the same thing you are right now. Funny how few come back and eat crow.
I'm not even going to pretend that "tape" I view is relevant. I don't know the play calls, I don't know the protections called or the defensive plays called. Average fans watching Youtube cut ups and acting as if that's relevant is funny to me. It's a huge piece of incomplete information.

I was not a Wentz and still think he would have failed here since there was not nearly the amount of talent here or coaching that Pederson's staff had with the Eagles. Pederson might be the best coach in the NFL right now with the way he's approaching aggressive play calling and 4th Down situations. We just watched him school Belicheck, arguably the most analytically driven coach in the leauge. Hue Jackson would have destroyed Wentz here with his lack of ability to work around a player's strengths.
 
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No sense in arguing with a guy who thinks he knows everything. I know the Wyoming program upside and down. You only think you do. Without Allen they wouldn't have won 3 games. Bohl is good, but he has the crappiest OC in the business that is holding him back. And two of those losses Allen didn't play. If you ever do start knowing more about Bohl , or Wyoming, or Allen for that matter, is the day I bow down to you. I think I am safe for now. I may be new to this board, but I am not to sports.

No sense in arguing with a guy who knows everything.

*Goes on to factually state how many games they'd win without Josh Allen.

Cool.
 

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