Cleveland Browns Quarterback Position

[dark2332]

Ho

How is he not a winner? Look at Wyoming's record with him and without him. It is not like they had much success there in years. Allen took them to back to back bowls. Something that hasn't happened there for a very long time. I agree somebody will have to put him together. So what did you say when they were talking Wentz as number 1? I have time to wait and see how Allen turns out. I have watched the guy a lot and know his weaknesses and his strengths. I didn't just read about him or get a quick look. Allen needs some coaching up, but I think he is getting it and will continue to progress. If I am wrong no big deal, most of the people out there want him to fail because he didn't play at a big school. He loves being underated.

Takes moxie to call a man "Ho" right off the bad when addressing him.

Baker Mayfield? Is that you? Hoping we take Allen instead of you I see....

 

[Midwestcav]

No sense in arguing with a guy who knows everything.

*Goes on to factually state how many games they'd win without Josh Allen.

Cool.

No sense in arguing with a guy who knows everything.

*Goes on to factually state how many games they'd win without Josh Allen.

Cool.

The only thing factual is that you think you know what you are talking about. Saying Wentz is light years ahead of Allen just came flying out of your piehole. Is that factual? Who gets to decide what someone else says is factual or not? You are a crappy internet bully. I would eat you up and spit you out for fun. I just joined this site because most of the posters look like pretty good guys. Unfortunately you feel threatened by someone knowing more than you do. I have not once questioned anyone on here about Browns or Cavs players. I know a little about them , but not like the board does
So I keep my mouth shut. It might do you wonders if you did the same. Keep to what you actually know. I will leave it at that. But knowing guys like you I am sure you will have to get the last word in. Have at it. Regardless, this is a pretty good and respectful board from what I have seen so far. So I won't judge the board because of a few.

 

[AZ_]

The only thing factual is that you think you know what you are talking about. Saying Wentz is light years ahead of Allen just came flying out of your piehole. Is that factual? Who gets to decide what someone else says is factual or not?

Not me, I was giving my opinion.

Wentz is a few years older, a five year player and was universally considered a better prospect by everyone not a Wyoming fan.

Better accuracy, feet, experience and knowledge of a pro-style offense makes him better.

But by all means, go for it.

You are a crappy internet bully. I would eat you up and spit you out for fun. I just joined this site because most of the posters look like pretty good guys.

Eh, I doubt that. But welcome to the board.

Unfortunately you feel threatened by someone knowing more than you do. I have not once questioned anyone on here about Browns or Cavs players. I know a little about them , but not like the board does

I'm not sure why anyone would consider you to know something, when all you've done is say Josh Allen is a winner and tell us he'd be great with more coaching.

So I keep my mouth shut. It might do you wonders if you did the same. Keep to what you actually know. I will leave it at that. But knowing guys like you I am sure you will have to get the last word in. Have at it. Regardless, this is a pretty good and respectful board from what I have seen so far. So I won't judge the board because of a few.

Good to know.

Weird that it's another new poster coming out with some odd aggression and trying to rile people up.

Good stuff, nothing at all suspicious about a guy from Wyoming who joined a Cavs message board to pick fights about Josh Allen.

 

[dark2332]

The only thing factual is that you think you know what you are talking about. Saying Wentz is light years ahead of Allen just came flying out of your piehole. Is that factual? Who gets to decide what someone else says is factual or not? You are a crappy internet bully. I would eat you up and spit you out for fun. I just joined this site because most of the posters look like pretty good guys. Unfortunately you feel threatened by someone knowing more than you do. I have not once questioned anyone on here about Browns or Cavs players. I know a little about them , but not like the board does
So I keep my mouth shut. It might do you wonders if you did the same. Keep to what you actually know. I will leave it at that. But knowing guys like you I am sure you will have to get the last word in. Have at it. Regardless, this is a pretty good and respectful board from what I have seen so far. So I won't judge the board because of a few.

You may like Allen, and that's fine. He seems like a good guy. He has all the tools. However, he's not close to being what Wentz was when Wentz was leaving school. I watched Wentz tape and could not believe this guy was hidden in North Dakota. He had the anticipation, the ball placement, the knowledge of a pro-style offense. He was a joy to watch. He, too, was a fine human being off the field. And even still, Carson Wentz had his ups and downs as a rookie in the league.

Josh Allen may eventually get there--but right now, he's a project. He's nowhere close to what Wentz was entering the league. His accuracy isn't there. His consistency breaks down from a mechanics standpoint far too often. He's still learning to throw with touch. He still makes head-scratching throws at too high of a rate. As a guy who is going to need two years to develop, you can't take him in the top 5 of the draft. You just can't. Someone may get a steal in the late first, and that's fine. That's the type of place he needs drafted to. Somewhere he can sit and learn.

I was all aboard the Josh Allen train last year. If you searched to the first pages of the 2018 Draft Prospects thread, I was all on it. I expected a large step from him this year--despite the exodus of talent--because that's what good quarterbacks do. Yes, his line has been poor. Yes, it rushes him. However, he has made his share of horrible decisions and inaccurate throws from a clean pocket. He didn't progress. In some ways, his lack of progression can be pointed to as regression.

I wish him well. He's just not what I wish he was at this very moment in time.

 

[sportscoach]

No sense in arguing with a guy who knows everything.

*Goes on to factually state how many games they'd win without Josh Allen.

Cool.

https://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/teams/page/SJST/san-jose-state-spartans

Allen was injuried for the San Jose State game and did not play. Honestly b00bie, you do know your stuff, but when your team loses to the worst D1 team in football and the only difference was the fact you didn't have your starting QB then yeah, there is a lot here you are missing (or at least in your quotes seem like you are missing). No one is saying Allen is the immediate answer since he does need some time to develop, but if he is given time and with the right coaching, I have no doubt he will be a very good NFL player.

That being said Wentz was more polished as a QB, but having similar skill sets and the same coach working and developing them, Allen is a lot like Wentz and if you said he doesn't have similar potential then you are way off. He has a good chance of being an NFL QB especially in the right system. He can make plays and will be better than Kizer as a rookie without a doubt, but he does need more time than Wentz did to the pros. Also Allen knows pro style offense better than anyone else but maybe Rosen in this draft. Allen played under center more than majority of the QBs in college and if you want to, go ahead and find stats, but watch film and you will see that.

Also @Midwestcav isn't actually trying to attack or offend anyone, he is just saying that he is the guy who knows Allen better than anyone else on this board, including you b00bie and he just wants ya to respect his judgement of the kid not just tear apart anything he is saying (which whether you know it or not you keep doing). He never said he will be amazing right away, but he is a lot closer in ability to Wentz than you want to give Allen credit for.

You may like Allen, and that's fine. He seems like a good guy. He has all the tools. However, he's not close to being what Wentz was when Wentz was leaving school. I watched Wentz tape and could not believe this guy was hidden in North Dakota. He had the anticipation, the ball placement, the knowledge of a pro-style offense. He was a joy to watch. He, too, was a fine human being off the field. And even still, Carson Wentz had his ups and downs as a rookie in the league.

Josh Allen may eventually get there--but right now, he's a project. He's nowhere close to what Wentz was entering the league. His accuracy isn't there. His consistency breaks down from a mechanics standpoint far too often. He's still learning to throw with touch. He still makes head-scratching throws at too high of a rate. As a guy who is going to need two years to develop, you can't take him in the top 5 of the draft. You just can't. Someone may get a steal in the late first, and that's fine. That's the type of place he needs drafted to. Somewhere he can sit and learn.

I was all aboard the Josh Allen train last year. If you searched to the first pages of the 2018 Draft Prospects thread, I was all on it. I expected a large step from him this year--despite the exodus of talent--because that's what good quarterbacks do. Yes, his line has been poor. Yes, it rushes him. However, he has made his share of horrible decisions and inaccurate throws from a clean pocket. He didn't progress. In some ways, his lack of progression can be pointed to as regression.

I wish him well. He's just not what I wish he was at this very moment in time.

To me the only QB in this draft that isnt really a project is Rosen and he still has some work but could play right away. Darnold still has mechanical and turnover issues, Mayfield needs to learn more schemes/pro style of offenses, Allen needs to adapt to a faster play and work on his touch and Jackson still needs to develop as a QB overall (everything is there, just needs more time than anyone else of the top 5). Now I feel Allen didn't regress, but at the same time, with how bad his team was around him, he couldn't progress either.

@Midwestcav, how many other players do you think will make the NFL from Allen's team? If I remember correctly even his top players around him last season were day three picks, so even they weren't over the top talented. I think overall Allen will help make the program better, but I just don't see a ton of talent on offense at all around him.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Not saying Allen is a Favre, but he has a lot of the traits and a lot of announcers used them as comparisons during televised games. But Allen can throw any pass out there. His biggest knock was he had no touch. He dispelled that at the Senior Bowl.

I will say this about the Senior Bowl and the few practice reps I was able to watch: Allen and Mayfield both had a huge audience to showcase their best, and I doubt either one helped themselves as much as they wanted.

Allen had a lot of criticism after the second day of Senior Bowl practices after media initially championed him for showing up on time and being a full participant - which Mayfield did not handle with much grace. After that, Twitter spread some bad balls. In the game itself, he was maddening with his missed throwing windows in the first half. He ended up scrambling when replays showed he melted in the face of pressure, but guys were indeed getting separation.

I felt like he was able to regather and put in a strong drive to open the second half and save his week, but I can't say Allen cemented himself as the best QB as a result of Senior Bowl... a team that wants him will do so because of what he put on tape in the past and whatever he can fix in the combine/individual workouts.

 

[Midwestcav]

https://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/teams/page/SJST/san-jose-state-spartans

Allen was injuried for the San Jose State game and did not play. Honestly b00bie, you do know your stuff, but when your team loses to the worst D1 team in football and the only difference was the fact you didn't have your starting QB then yeah, there is a lot here you are missing (or at least in your quotes seem like you are missing). No one is saying Allen is the immediate answer since he does need some time to develop, but if he is given time and with the right coaching, I have no doubt he will be a very good NFL player.

That being said Wentz was more polished as a QB, but having similar skill sets and the same coach working and developing them, Allen is a lot like Wentz and if you said he doesn't have similar potential then you are way off. He has a good chance of being an NFL QB especially in the right system. He can make plays and will be better than Kizer as a rookie without a doubt, but he does need more time than Wentz did to the pros. Also Allen knows pro style offense better than anyone else but maybe Rosen in this draft. Allen played under center more than majority of the QBs in college and if you want to, go ahead and find stats, but watch film and you will see that.

Also @Midwestcav isn't actually trying to attack or offend anyone, he is just saying that he is the guy who knows Allen better than anyone else on this board, including you b00bie and he just wants ya to respect his judgement of the kid not just tear apart anything he is saying (which whether you know it or not you keep doing). He never said he will be amazing right away, but he is a lot closer in ability to Wentz than you want to give Allen credit for.



To me the only QB in this draft that isnt really a project is Rosen and he still has some work but could play right away. Darnold still has mechanical and turnover issues, Mayfield needs to learn more schemes/pro style of offenses, Allen needs to adapt to a faster play and work on his touch and Jackson still needs to develop as a QB overall (everything is there, just needs more time than anyone else of the top 5). Now I feel Allen didn't regress, but at the same time, with how bad his team was around him, he couldn't progress either.

@Midwestcav, how many other players do you think will make the NFL from Allen's team? If I remember correctly even his top players around him last season were day three picks, so even they weren't over the top talented. I think overall Allen will help make the program better, but I just don't see a ton of talent on offense at all around him.

Sportscoach, I seriously doubt we have any offensive players drafted. It was that bad. Our defense could very well have quite a few players drafted next year. One thing about Bohl is he is building the team the right way. He is not taking shortcuts. Watching our play calling is a very hard thing to do. I hate Vigen, but between him and Bohl they have some magic finding qbs. They also had another kid at NDSU who played in the CFL. Brock Jensen was his name.

Wyoming is not an easy place to recruit to. And at NDSU Bohl could at least get those big farm boys to play the line. That is why they like to run clock, shorten the game. It gives them a better chance to stick around. And when you have less talent, you have to win ugly. We are finally starting to see some depth on defense, that part is going well this last year after we got a new DC. Offense will always be a challenge with Vigen calling the shots. But Bohl is loyal, and I guess you have to take the good with the bad. Bohl is getting us to the point where we will challenge for the conference title every year. We played in the conference title game in Allen's sophomore year and barely got beat by San Diego State, after beating them two weeks before that. But we have to go through Boise State for the title every year. They have been one of the most consistent teams in America for a decade or longer. I think Bohl will get us there.

I hate guys that try and be know it alls on a fan board, and don't want to come off like that. But I do have a loyalty to Allen and can honestly say that guys like him don't come around very often. I have watched a lot of qbs over time and see a lot of potential in him. But he needs to sit and learn to get better. He has his flaws, but the good easily outweighs them. He is definitely a class act. I would have liked to see hip play one more year of college, but his chances of getting hurt in our scheme are too high. They use him on designed runs way too much because it is the only way for us to win. He was our best running back. And in Vigen scheme, his stats would not improve much. The other team knows what we are calling before we break the huddle. It really is that bad. So he is better off leaving now before he really gets hurt. He got hurt on a trick play, one where he handed off to the running back and the back tossed the ball back to him after a fake buck into the line. Bad play call considering our offensive line play being so bad. We had a 14 point lead at the time against Air Force. I was suprised Vigen called it. It was out of character for him. I just want Allen to go somewhere so that they have a bridge qb. Give him some time to learn and adjust. He will need it more than likely.

 

[Triplethreat]

You said it right there.

You have a loyalty to Allen. So you're biased as shit. Let's wrap this up now.

 

[Midwestcav]

You may like Allen, and that's fine. He seems like a good guy. He has all the tools. However, he's not close to being what Wentz was when Wentz was leaving school. I watched Wentz tape and could not believe this guy was hidden in North Dakota. He had the anticipation, the ball placement, the knowledge of a pro-style offense. He was a joy to watch. He, too, was a fine human being off the field. And even still, Carson Wentz had his ups and downs as a rookie in the league.

Josh Allen may eventually get there--but right now, he's a project. He's nowhere close to what Wentz was entering the league. His accuracy isn't there. His consistency breaks down from a mechanics standpoint far too often. He's still learning to throw with touch. He still makes head-scratching throws at too high of a rate. As a guy who is going to need two years to develop, you can't take him in the top 5 of the draft. You just can't. Someone may get a steal in the late first, and that's fine. That's the type of place he needs drafted to. Somewhere he can sit and learn.

I was all aboard the Josh Allen train last year. If you searched to the first pages of the 2018 Draft Prospects thread, I was all on it. I expected a large step from him this year--despite the exodus of talent--because that's what good quarterbacks do. Yes, his line has been poor. Yes, it rushes him. However, he has made his share of horrible decisions and inaccurate throws from a clean pocket. He didn't progress. In some ways, his lack of progression can be pointed to as regression.

I wish him well. He's just not what I wish he was at this very moment in time.

Good post Darkness. I respect your opinion. I also wanted Allen to progress more, but I also see why he didn't. I was expecting a lot more from him. When we lost to San Jose State without him it kind of explains how bad a team we were on offense. Allen started forcing balls into places and he shouldn't have but the offense was on his shoulders. Wyoming scored in the red zone every single time we got there but once. It was against New Mexico and we had a 42 point lead. Bohl is too honorable to run up the score, and just ran the ball on that last possesion. Otherwise we would have been at 100% in the red zone. The funny thing about it was New Mexico ran up the score on us the year before. It didn't matter to Bohl, he is not built that way. We got lucky when we got him as our coach. He is not flashy, but he is solid as a coach. As far as Allen goes, it was definitely a weird season. We finally had a defense, but the offense was really bad. I also thought Allen would have progressed regardless, but I guess you had to see it to believe it. When Brian Hill left early for the NFL, it showed how bad our line actually was and how good Hill was as a running back. Hill got drafted by Atlanta even though they had a 3 deep backfield the way it was. He got cut later in the year after injuries and he is on the Cincinati roster. Hollister our tight end signed to the Patriots and receiver Gentry to the Bears. Our center Roullllier to Washington, and receiver Maulhardt signed a FA contract with the Saints. We had 5 offensive players in NFL camps to start the season that Allen had to do without. For a small school like Wyoming (12,000 students) that is hard for a qb to adapt to. I don't like using excuses, but only Hill our running back, and Roullier our center, were drafted. So Allen is doing this without weapons. If Allen had the UCLA or USC practice teams to throw to, his numbers would be a lot better than they were this year. Not saying we can't play with those teams on a given day, but not on a week to week basis. We just don't get to sign 4 or 5 star recruits. And not many 3 star recruits at that. As soon as we sign a 3 star recruit, they get knocked down a star by Rivals or some other recruiting site and are then a 2 star recruit. One last thing I will add, if you ever play a Wyoming football team you will know you were in a game where the kids have no quit in them. That is one main reason I am so high on Allen. If you didn't know better you would think he was from Wyoming. The kid has no quit in him. He is of high character. He could have taken the money last year and been taken in the early tounds, but he felt he owed his coaches and fans one more year.

Normally I would want Allen to stay for his senior year, but I think he will be better off hopefully sitting behind an Eli Manning or Big Ben, or a bridge qb the Browns bring in. I was hoping you guys would have gotten Smith from KC, but that ship has sailed. I am not a big Cousins fan, but he may suprise me playing for a different team. Whoever gets Cousins is going to pay through the nose for him. I don't know if he is worth it. I don't think he will sign with the Browns if the Browns are going to draft another qb. Cousins sounds like he is wanting to go to a team where he can win right away and retire there years down the road. I like underdogs and am rooting for you guys to figure it out. I like you guys getting the qb you want and Barkley. Barkley is damn good. He can take the pressure off a qb and a young offense. But I don't know the Browns needs like you guys do, is I just sit back and watch. Good insight on your post.

 

[Midwestcav]

You said it right there.

You have a loyalty to Allen. So you're biased as shit. Let's wrap this up now.

Not biased, loyal. A big difference . Dictionary time? I can at least admit Allen has faults. Prepare to eat crow,Allen has been proving people wrong for a long time. I think it will continue as long as he doesn't get thrown into the fire.

 

[dark2332]

Good post Darkness. I respect your opinion. I also wanted Allen to progress more, but I also see why he didn't. I was expecting a lot more from him. When we lost to San Jose State without him it kind of explains how bad a team we were on offense. Allen started forcing balls into places and he shouldn't have but the offense was on his shoulders. Wyoming scored in the red zone every single time we got there but once. It was against New Mexico and we had a 42 point lead. Bohl is too honorable to run up the score, and just ran the ball on that last possesion. Otherwise we would have been at 100% in the red zone. The funny thing about it was New Mexico ran up the score on us the year before. It didn't matter to Bohl, he is not built that way. We got lucky when we got him as our coach. He is not flashy, but he is solid as a coach. As far as Allen goes, it was definitely a weird season. We finally had a defense, but the offense was really bad. I also thought Allen would have progressed regardless, but I guess you had to see it to believe it. When Brian Hill left early for the NFL, it showed how bad our line actually was and how good Hill was as a running back. Hill got drafted by Atlanta even though they had a 3 deep backfield the way it was. He got cut later in the year after injuries and he is on the Cincinati roster. Hollister our tight end signed to the Patriots and receiver Gentry to the Bears. Our center Roullllier to Washington, and receiver Maulhardt signed a FA contract with the Saints. We had 5 offensive players in NFL camps to start the season that Allen had to do without. For a small school like Wyoming (12,000 students) that is hard for a qb to adapt to. I don't like using excuses, but only Hill our running back, and Roullier our center, were drafted. So Allen is doing this without weapons. If Allen had the UCLA or USC practice teams to throw to, his numbers would be a lot better than they were this year. Not saying we can't play with those teams on a given day, but not on a week to week basis. We just don't get to sign 4 or 5 star recruits. And not many 3 star recruits at that. As soon as we sign a 3 star recruit, they get knocked down a star by Rivals or some other recruiting site and are then a 2 star recruit. One last thing I will add, if you ever play a Wyoming football team you will know you were in a game where the kids have no quit in them. That is one main reason I am so high on Allen. If you didn't know better you would think he was from Wyoming. The kid has no quit in him. He is of high character. He could have taken the money last year and been taken in the early tounds, but he felt he owed his coaches and fans one more year.

Normally I would want Allen to stay for his senior year, but I think he will be better off hopefully sitting behind an Eli Manning or Big Ben, or a bridge qb the Browns bring in. I was hoping you guys would have gotten Smith from KC, but that ship has sailed. I am not a big Cousins fan, but he may suprise me playing for a different team. Whoever gets Cousins is going to pay through the nose for him. I don't know if he is worth it. I don't think he will sign with the Browns if the Browns are going to draft another qb. Cousins sounds like he is wanting to go to a team where he can win right away and retire there years down the road. I like underdogs and am rooting for you guys to figure it out. I like you guys getting the qb you want and Barkley. Barkley is damn good. He can take the pressure off a qb and a young offense. But I don't know the Browns needs like you guys do, is I just sit back and watch. Good insight on your post.

I see his character, and I like Josh Allen a lot from this standpoint. I like that he’s had to work for it. I like that he was virtually unrecruited. I like his entire story.

At the Senior Bowl, his comments about wanting to go to Cleveland and be immortalized as the guy to turn it all around—that’s the shit that gets the blood pumping.

As for Browns fans, many of us were upset when we passed on Wentz the first time. Believe me, if Allen was the second-coming, we wouldn’t miss an opportunity. We’re desperate for a redo.

He’s not there right now.

He just has too many raw traits and bad habits at this point. Many can be fixed, but it’s a long road. Some might not be able to be. It’s a toss up. But, man, you look at his physical stature and a highlight film and you think he’s Football Jesus. He’s just not consistent—no matter how much circumstance played a role.

I hate to say it, but he’ll probably end up in Pittsburgh and sit for 2-3 years behind Ben. He’ll become a fantastic player and dominate us for 15 years. Such is the life of a Browns fan.

I hope for his sake he doesn’t go top 10. He needs time to develop.

 

[Triplethreat]

Not biased, loyal. A big difference . Dictionary time? I can at least admit Allen has faults. Prepare to eat crow,Allen has been proving people wrong for a long time. I think it will continue as long as he doesn't get thrown into the fire.

Are you going to explain his 56% completion percentage?

Because better QB's have done much better with similar surrounding casts

 

[Midwestcav]

I see his character, and I like Josh Allen a lot from this standpoint. I like that he’s had to work for it. I like that he was virtually unrecruited. I like his entire story.

At the Senior Bowl, his comments about wanting to go to Cleveland and be immortalized as the guy to turn it all around—that’s the shit that gets the blood pumping.

As for Browns fans, many of us were upset when we passed on Wentz the first time. Believe me, if Allen was the second-coming, we wouldn’t miss an opportunity. We’re desperate for a redo.

He’s not there right now.

He just has too many raw traits and bad habits at this point. Many can be fixed, but it’s a long road. Some might not be able to be. It’s a toss up. But, man, you look at his physical stature and a highlight film and you think he’s Football Jesus. He’s just not consistent—no matter how much circumstance played a role.

I hate to say it, but he’ll probably end up in Pittsburgh and sit for 2-3 years behind Ben. He’ll become a fantastic player and dominate us for 15 years. Such is the life of a Browns fan.

I hope for his sake he doesn’t go top 10. He needs time to develop.

Too funny Darkness. One never knows what will happen in the draft or a kid. I was encouraged by how fast he picked up on things at the Senior Bowl. Will he keep doing it? I hope so but can't say because the NFL is a different beast. Most Wyoming fans want him to go somewhere and sit and learn. We are realistic about Allen. That being said I fear the wrong team will draft him expecting too much right away and he is out of the league in a flash. Would it be cool to have him drafted #1? Of course. But justifiably not the best thing for him. So I just want him to go wherever it gives him the best chance to develop. And he does need developing. Good post. Thanks.

 

[Midwestcav]

Are you going to explain his 56% completion percentage?

Because better QB's have done much better with similar surrounding casts

 

[Triplethreat]

He's not accurate. He actually proved this at the Senior Bowl missing guys by 10 yards often.