Conspiracy Theories / Wild Predictions

[The Oi]

Fuckin hungry for a Big Mac.

 

[David.]

We're not "teaching" people to eat horribly. It's a naturally-acquired vice. My point is that people are choosing to eat the things that make them fat. Not because they mistakenly think those things are healthy, but simply because they like the way the taste. And, they eat too much of whatever it is that is making them fat.

That's not a conspiracy. That's just people being people.

Its a little of both.

Whole foods and organic foods is also largely pseudo science/marketing. Gluten.

The "net carbs" due to fiber thing.

A lot of nutrition is horseshit

 

[David.]

Fuckin hungry for a Big Mac.

They have the grand mac in other places? Wonderful idea

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Its a little of both.

Whole foods and organic foods is also largely pseudo science/marketing. The "net carbs" due to fiber thing. A lot of nutrition is horseshit

Our understanding of nutrition has changed quite a bit over the years as well. It isn't just agribusiness that's been telling us what is good for us, and not always getting it right.

I remember when eggs were bad for us -- obviously pissed off the chicken farmers lobby, but there wasn't much they could do about it.

 

[David.]

Our understanding of nutrition has changed quite a bit over the years as well. It isn't just agribusiness that's been telling us what is good for us, and not always getting it right.

I remember when eggs were bad for us -- obviously pissed off the chicken farmers lobby, but there wasn't much they could do about it.

A lot of this stuff goes back and forth too. Synthetic protein is non beneficial, its not a protein, is one of the last ones i heard. I thought creatine got debunked more than a decade ago, but someone with a good knowledge of nutrtion that had no vested interest just cited it as "the best legal supplement available".

Whenever new stuff like fish oil and dhea comes out, i dont bother. Debunked in a few years.

 

[gourimoko]

I get that. My point is that most of the guidance begin given out to the average person is meant to improve their diet relative to what they were eating before, and that a fair bit of our obesity is due to eating habits that were traceable to a time when obtaining enough calories was a struggle for many people. For a much more sedentary population, caloric intake isn't a problem, so their eating habits aren't a good fit.

Well.. this is a complex point. When you say caloric intake, I'm assuming you mean the composition of those calories?

I also think the recent science that points to early (in life) development of gut bacteria and cultural diet plays a huge role in our ability to metabolize various kinds of calories; and I say that based around my experiences having lived in Hawaii and Asia and seeing first hand very high carb diets that do not result in obesity.

But okay, I'll try it your way. What very unhealthy foods are having those effects "hidden" from consumers?

Aspertame for one. So foods that are labeled "diet" that actually prevent people from losing weight... that's really unfortunate. And many people (I think most) don't really understand just how aspertame can contain no calories but simultaneously contribute to weight gain and an unhealthy lifestyle.

With respect to some of the foods @natedagg mentioned, I get that many folks do understand these days that carbs can contribute to obesity in most Americans; however, I don't think people fully realize just how much this is true.

I also don't think people understand just how unhealthy much of our takeout foods really are; or how important it is to cook foods at home from scratch, using fresh, nutrient rich ingredients, and not rely on boxes/packets/cans that contain a great deal of unhealthy elements like high amounts of sodium, various preservatives, loads of nitrates, etc - many of which we do think are bad for one's health long-term.

Another example might also include BPA. WebMD suggests that 90% of Americans have and constantly maintain measurable levels of BPA in our systems due to our ingestion of foods contained in plastics that are hardened with this substance. Meanwhile in several EU nations like France, BPA has been outright banned for use in food packaging altogether.

There is no doubt that BPA is toxic - the question is how toxic, how toxic is too toxic to tolerate for public consumption, and should companies be forced to use alternatives?

But the concern here is that millions of people, well, actually billions of people, are being used as a running experiment - and really, not much of one since there is no control here; so to put it more accurately, health is really just not as much of a concern as profit.

Because I have to say that there is shitloads of information out there about the right things to eat if people care enough to look.

Right now; in my estimation, most people are completely ignorant as to what is healthy for them, based on general nutrition guidelines that they remember from growing up. Moreover, there is an active element in the food industry to prevent informative labeling of products that contain genetically modified ingredients, insecticides, or other potentially adverse components.

 

[ajz20]

Fuckin hungry for a Big Mac.

I dont think I have had a Big Mac since I was 14. With so many trendy burger places these days with more creative burger creations, I dont think the Big Mac would ever be one of my cravings. I can see why it would appeal to a teen or young child but not an adult. I could be wrong but didn't McDonalds lose share of the market over the past 5 years?

 

[David.]

I dont think I have had a Big Mac since I was 14. With so many trendy burger places these days with more creative burger creations, I dont think the Big Mac would ever be one of my cravings. I can see why it would appeal to a teen or young child but not an adult. I could be wrong but didn't McDonalds lose share of the market over the past 5 years?

Only kids like cheeseburgers?

 

[FiveThous]

Mmm, grass fed burgers on a fresh brioche roll, lettuce, red onion, pickles and some jalapenos.

Great my khakis are getting tighter.

 

[The Oi]

So am I allowed to eat beef and pork or what? What the fuck kind of meat am I allowed to eat these days?

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Well.. this is a complex point. When you say caloric intake, I'm assuming you mean the composition of those calories?

Actually, no. I'm talking about the need to eat as least as much energy as you are expending. Actual calories. For much of human history, that was the goal around which food production/consumption centered. That was true for a lot of folks growing up in the Depression, and that led to emphasis on cheap, easily produced and transportable carbohydrates like potatoes, rice, and wheat. Everyone would rather have eaten more animal protein/fat, for example. They just couldn't afford it, and they needed enough energy to do the work they needed to do. Hence, carbs. And that was true long before the Depression, actually.

Cooking is largely cultural -- you cook and eat what you grew up with. So a lot of our eating/cooking habits are based around those same carbohydrates. That's not a conspiracy -- it's just what happened. But still, people generally knew that some foods were better than others, particularly complex carbs found in vegetables. That's why "eat your vegetables" is one of those enduring American phrases.

But there are two basic problems with that cultural eating/cooking. First, as we've become less active, we've expended less calories on a daily basis, and so need to consume fewer carbs. Second, as there are fewer and fewer homes with a stay at home parent, more people lack the time for someone to make everything from scratch. So, prepared foods became more common. Between those two things, people got fatter, and without a conspiracy.

I also think the recent science that points to early (in life) development of gut bacteria and cultural diet plays a huge role in our ability to metabolize various kinds of calories; and I say that based around my experiences having lived in Hawaii and Asia and seeing first hand very high carb diets that do not result in obesity.

I wouldn't disagree with that. We have learned an awful lot about nutrition over the last few decades, a lot of it coming by examining other cultures. But again, that's new stuff that we've learned, which is not the same as saying that knowledge has been suppressed. And of course, there's the difficulty in asking/expecting people to jettison tastes that have been developed over a lifetime.

I also don't think people understand just how unhealthy much of our takeout foods really are; or how important it is to cook foods at home from scratch, using fresh, nutrient rich ingredients, and not rely on boxes/packets/cans that contain a great deal of unhealthy elements like high amounts of sodium, various preservatives, loads of nitrates, etc - many of which we do think are bad for one's health long-term.

I would agree that most don't know exactly how unhealthy that stuff is, or exactly how important it is to prepare things fresh at home. But I think the basic understanding actually is there. People just choose to do what is more convenient because they value instant gratification in terms of taste/less effort over the alternative.

Another example might also include BPA. WebMD suggests that 90% of Americans have and constantly maintain measurable levels of BPA in our systems due to our ingestion of foods contained in plastics that are hardened with this substance. Meanwhile in several EU nations like France, BPA has been outright banned for use in food packaging altogether.

I wouldn't argue with the idea that the food industry fights against labelling of contaminants and GMO's. I just don't think they're the primary reason we're fat. We're fat because we're basically eating the same way we did when we were expending a shitload more calories.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Is JFK being killed or conspired against by the CIA even a "conspiracy theory" really? Or is it pretty much known that they caused his death?

Because I believe that theory.

@Maximus believes that you can simulate the World Trade centers collapsing by punching styrofoam in your living room.

JFK is the conspiracy theory of all conspiracy theories IMO. Don't think any single, individual event in human history has been more studied than his assassination.

Having things that constantly favor both sides of the argument are why its able to remain a conspiracy too, and why it will remain a conspiracy for as long as its records remain accessible.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

@natedagg -- I'm sorry if I'm coming across as a dickhead -- that's not my intention. It's just that I'm wary of things that sound like excuses for people making stupid fucking decisions of their own. While I don't deny there is some misinformation coming from the food industry itself, I think sufficiently accurate knowledge is out there for most people to make better choices if they want to. It's just that they don't want to.

It hasn't helped that the nutritional geeks themselves have kind of been all over the map over the last half century or so. Don't eat eggs -- eat eggs. Fat is bad for you/no it isn't. Considering that this amounts to alternately promoting/condemning the exact same foods, it's difficult to imagine it is all part of a single-minded plot.

ETA: I do completely acknowledge the point @gourimoko made about the industry fighting labelling, etc..

 

[Cavatt]

Well.. this is a complex point. When you say caloric intake, I'm assuming you mean the composition of those calories?

I also think the recent science that points to early (in life) development of gut bacteria and cultural diet plays a huge role in our ability to metabolize various kinds of calories; and I say that based around my experiences having lived in Hawaii and Asia and seeing first hand very high carb diets that do not result in obesity.



Aspertame for one. So foods that are labeled "diet" that actually prevent people from losing weight... that's really unfortunate. And many people (I think most) don't really understand just how aspertame can contain no calories but simultaneously contribute to weight gain and an unhealthy lifestyle.

With respect to some of the foods @natedagg mentioned, I get that many folks do understand these days that carbs can contribute to obesity in most Americans; however, I don't think people fully realize just how much this is true.

I also don't think people understand just how unhealthy much of our takeout foods really are; or how important it is to cook foods at home from scratch, using fresh, nutrient rich ingredients, and not rely on boxes/packets/cans that contain a great deal of unhealthy elements like high amounts of sodium, various preservatives, loads of nitrates, etc - many of which we do think are bad for one's health long-term.

Another example might also include BPA. WebMD suggests that 90% of Americans have and constantly maintain measurable levels of BPA in our systems due to our ingestion of foods contained in plastics that are hardened with this substance. Meanwhile in several EU nations like France, BPA has been outright banned for use in food packaging altogether.

There is no doubt that BPA is toxic - the question is how toxic, how toxic is too toxic to tolerate for public consumption, and should companies be forced to use alternatives?

But the concern here is that millions of people, well, actually billions of people, are being used as a running experiment - and really, not much of one since there is no control here; so to put it more accurately, health is really just not as much of a concern as profit.



Right now; in my estimation, most people are completely ignorant as to what is healthy for them, based on general nutrition guidelines that they remember from growing up. Moreover, there is an active element in the food industry to prevent informative labeling of products that contain genetically modified ingredients, insecticides, or other potentially adverse components.

I have been thinking about this a lot. I think this is a huge area that is under studied. I do think fast food and other "factory foods" as my dad calls them promote a specific guy flora that makes people gain weight and not process foods properly. Also, preservatives keep certain bacteria from digesting foods, and that could heavily skew how your gut works if you eat a lot of prepared or non fresh food.

The most convincing study to me, was a case study of a woman who got a fecal transplant. A fecal transplant is to replace microorganisms in the gut after they have been killed with antibiotics. A thin woman got a fecal transplant from an overwight woman, and she ballooned up immediately even though her diet did not change.

http://www.iflscience.com/health-an...bese-after-fecal-transplant-overweight-donor/

It's really fascinating, and while I don't propose that this is a conspiracy in the sense that this is what Frito-lay wanted to happen, but I do think that they are feeding specific bad micro-gut-organisms with their products and they know and don't care.

Everyone knows if you go to eat fast food, you want more maybe that day or even the next day. Those are signals your gut is sending to you to control your behavior. It is a little scary. If you ever listen to a person talking about their cravings for Mcnuggets or something like that, it is gross and seems unnatural. It isn't like a normal hunger feeling like when you really want a steak, it is more pathological. There is a level of mind control here that is not good, and it has been created in a lab to be drug-like in terms of people coming back to it again and again.

In the very near future all kinds of diseases will be cured by introducing the right balance of bacteria/yeast into/back into a person's body and you are going to hear skin biome, gut biome, scalp biome, all the freaking time.

 

[ajz20]

Only kids like cheeseburgers?

No I was talking specifically about the Big MAC vs other burgers at other places.
30 years ago you were mostly limited to fast food joints, or mediocre burgers at some early American chains, but that is not the case anymore.