Farewell Kyle Korver

[BimboColesHair]

They played him on a hurt knee, there's no doubt about that. Korver said flat-out his knee hurt but he was playing anyway. They starting sitting him when it became undeniable that his performance was off.

Windy on The Insiders today said that he was worried about Korver, that Korver was "not moving well" and just didn't look good. This one is on Lue and the team in not sitting him after that knee injury.

Seriously...someone who actually believes the bolded...please explain this to me, just so I understand.

How can the same team which willingly sits players out of games just to give them rest and in the process effectively just throw games away, then turn around and play a 35 year old on an injury that can get worse just because?

Answer that question...I want to get the logic of people who actually believe this team would force guys to play through injuries that can get worse, which it appears you are assuming here, while at the same time sitting LeBron, Ky, and Kevin any chance they can get while effectively forfeiting games in the process...

Because that just makes 0 sense to me, logically.

Also, its a foot injury he is dealing with, one I believe RJ said was from his new shoes...not a knee.

 

[cavsfever]

Seriously...someone who actually believes the bolded...please explain this to me, just so I understand.

How can the same team which willingly sits players out of games just to give them rest and in the process effectively just throw games away, then turn around and play a 35 year old on an injury that can get worse just because?

Answer that question...I want to get the logic of people who actually believe this team would force guys to play through injuries that can get worse, which it appears you are assuming here, while at the same time sitting LeBron, Ky, and Kevin any chance they can get while effectively forfeiting games in the process...

Because that just makes 0 sense to me, logically.

Also, its a foot injury he is dealing with, one I believe RJ said was from his new shoes...not a knee.

As you may have noticed, the entire human body is connected. All the bones and muscles work together to move you around. This means that when one part of your body is hurt, the movement patterns of the other parts change. For example, as you may recall, in 2015 Kyrie's left knee injury quickly contributed to a strained foot that bothered him during the entire playoffs.

It's not an opinion or a guess to say that we played Korver with a knee injury, it's a fact. Korver stated himself that his knee hurt but he would play through it. So this isn't about "what makes sense to you", this is about a plain fact. Here he is after the game saying that his knee is "bruised and sore" but "I don't like to miss games" --

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g71naC6W1s
.

Here he is two days later saying the knee is still sore -- View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6nwBgmJ9Sw



Since Korver said several times that he didn't like to miss games it's pretty clear that he wanted to play through pain and the team didn't stop him. Again, that is not an opinion but a fact -- Korver said his knee hurt, but he wanted to play, and he did play. It doesn't surprise me that we didn't force him to sit, given that we are playing 32 year old Lebron a league-leading number of minutes and we were at that point short of depth.

 

[Ohio]

This again?

He was hurt - it was obvious immediately after that fall - yet the Cavs continued to play him for several games. It was stupid and careless. Hopefully he's back to normal when he returns.

 

[LeShaq]

Windy's OPINION on Korver not moving well is also a bit outdated

True.

Korver did some practice today, and I think Lue said Korver was moving around fairly well.

 

[BimboColesHair]

As you may have noticed, the entire human body is connected. All the bones and muscles work together to move you around. This means that when one part of your body is hurt, the movement patterns of the other parts change. For example, as you may recall, in 2015 Kyrie's left knee injury quickly contributed to a strained foot that bothered him during the entire playoffs.

It's not an opinion or a guess to say that we played Korver with a knee injury, it's a fact. Korver stated himself that his knee hurt but he would play through it. So this isn't about "what makes sense to you", this is about a plain fact. Here he is after the game saying that his knee is "bruised and sore" but "I don't like to miss games" --

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g71naC6W1s
.

Here he is two days later saying the knee is still sore -- View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6nwBgmJ9Sw



Since Korver said several times that he didn't like to miss games it's pretty clear that he wanted to play through pain and the team didn't stop him. Again, that is not an opinion but a fact -- Korver said his knee hurt, but he wanted to play, and he did play. It doesn't surprise me that we didn't force him to sit, given that we are playing 32 year old Lebron a league-leading number of minutes and we were at that point short of depth.

Thanks for the lesson on how the human body works, doctor. I never knew that...

See...I'm not questioning if he was injured or not with regards to the knee.

I'm questioning your belief that this team forced him to play through an injury. Same team which throws games to give guys rest is the same team that forces aging vets to play through injuries? I don't buy that for one second...but you do, so I want to hear why...and don't give me the LeBron minutes, and lack of depth shit...we've sat the big 3 before with no depth...why would they play a role player through an injury with no depth...again, makes no sense.

And I choose to believe someone actually on the team, RJ, who mentioned the foot problem stemmed from Korver's new shoes, over you speculating that it came from his knee.

 

[BimboColesHair]

This again?

He was hurt - it was obvious immediately after that fall - yet the Cavs continued to play him for several games. It was stupid and careless. Hopefully he's back to normal when he returns.

Yes, this again.

I want someone to explain the logic to me of a team willingly losing games just so they can rest players, then turning around and playing an injured 35 year old guy in games on an injury that can get worse or lead to other injuries...cause that doesn't make sense to me at all...

 

[cavsfever]

Thanks for the lesson on how the human body works, doctor. I never knew that...

See...I'm not questioning if he was injured or not.

I'm questioning your belief that this team forced him to play through an injury. Same team which throws games to give guys rests is the same team that forces aging vets to play through injuries? I don't by that one second...but you do, so I want to hear why...and don't give me the LeBron minutes, and lack of depth shit...we've sat the big 3 before with no depth...why would they play a role player through an injury with no depth...again, makes no sense.

And I choose to believe someone actually on the team, RJ, who mentioned the foot problem stemmed from Korver's new shoes, over you speculating that it came from his knee.

We didn't force him to play through an injury when he wanted to sit, we didn't stop him when he wanted to play through pain. That's different. And there's no contradiction between occasionally resting players, which is becoming standard NBA practice for older guys, and making some dumb decisions about letting guys play through pain.

 

[Ohio]

Yes, this again.

I want someone to explain the logic to me of a team willingly losing games just so they can rest players, then turning around and playing an injured 35 year old guy in games on an injury that can get worse or lead to other injuries...cause that doesn't make sense to me at all...

They may not have forced him to play, but they should have forced him to sit.

edit: @cavsfever just said the same thing

 

[BimboColesHair]

We didn't force him to play through an injury when he wanted to sit, we didn't stop him when he wanted to play through pain. That's different. And there's no contradiction between occasionally resting players, which is becoming standard NBA practice for older guys, and making some dumb decisions about letting guys play through pain.

But then that just points me to your entire argument being made on hind-sighted assumption. That his knee injury led to his foot problem, because that's what you have access to as a fan. You aren't a doctor with the team, at least I don't think, so how do you know what the MRI showed? If it was bad, and it could get worse, why would professional trainers and doctors let him play on it?

This team, which cares so much about workload (in both practice and regular season), would not play a guy on an injury they think could get worse.

They've played Tristan through knee tendinitis that got better...but I can't see them playing someone on an injury that can get worse, knowing how they monitor shit all the time. I just can't buy that line of thinking that this is Lue or the training staffs fault for playing him after the knee scare...especially when a player on the team who is in the lockerroom is literally saying his current injury is unrelated to his knee...

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

As you may have noticed, the entire human body is connected. All the bones and muscles work together to move you around. This means that when one part of your body is hurt, the movement patterns of the other parts change. For example, as you may recall, in 2015 Kyrie's left knee injury quickly contributed to a strained foot that bothered him during the entire playoffs.

It's not an opinion or a guess to say that we played Korver with a knee injury, it's a fact. Korver stated himself that his knee hurt but he would play through it. So this isn't about "what makes sense to you", this is about a plain fact. Here he is after the game saying that his knee is "bruised and sore" but "I don't like to miss games" --

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g71naC6W1s
.

Here he is two days later saying the knee is still sore -- View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6nwBgmJ9Sw



Since Korver said several times that he didn't like to miss games it's pretty clear that he wanted to play through pain and the team didn't stop him. Again, that is not an opinion but a fact -- Korver said his knee hurt, but he wanted to play, and he did play. It doesn't surprise me that we didn't force him to sit, given that we are playing 32 year old Lebron a league-leading number of minutes and we were at that point short of depth.

Kyrie had a bigger issue that a bruise. Totally different situations. And you cannot say definitively that a sore knee caused Kyrie's foot injury. Just as you can also definitely not definitively say Korver's bruised/sore knee had anything to do with his foot. It obviously wasn't a very big deal, a severe bone bruise in the knee would still be something that would be listed on the injury report. But it is not. Everyone plays with a sore "x, y, z" at some point in the year. It's the NBA. Everyone is a little beat up.

The Cavs training staff, if they felt Korver needed to sit due to his knee, would have made sure he sat. They literally have no reason to push him beyond any type of limits. None. No incentive whatsoever. His foot has been sore for awhile too. He was playing on it, and shooting the hell out of the ball on it. Once it got too sore, they decided to give him some time off. But if you wait until everyone is 100% with no soreness whatsoever, you will be playing with 4 dudes every game. That's why the actual team doctors and trainers, with decades of schooling and experience, made the determination, and why trying to conclude that they made a bad decision from afar on a message board is absolutely ridiculous.

Furthermore, we know, through RJ, exactly why Korver's foot is sore. Not because he played on a sore knee, but because of issues with his shoes. Again, you want to talk about facts that are not disputable, those are two facts. You cannot link a sore knee to this foot injury, that is speculation, and in this case, false speculation. I agree that injuries do often lead to more injuries, but it did not happen in this case.

 

[BimboColesHair]

They may not have forced him to play, but they should have forced him to sit.

edit: @cavsfever just said the same thing

Like they do with LeBron, Ky, and Kevin when they sit them for games?

So again, why wouldn't they do the same with a guy who is hurt?

 

[Ohio]

Like they do with LeBron, Ky, and Kevin when they sit them for games?

Right.

So again, why wouldn't they do the same with a guy who is hurt?

I've been asking the same thing for weeks now. Why did they play an obviously hurt player, 35 year old player at that, for 5 games? I don't know, but it happened.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Right.


I've been asking the same thing for weeks now. Why did they play an obviously hurt player, 35 year old player at that, for 5 games? I don't know, but it happened.

Because you are assuming the injury was worse than it was. That's why. Your entire complaint is based on nothing but assumption, fed by an after the fact injury that has been said to be unrelated to the knee injury by his own teammate.

I get being annoyed that he get hurt twice in a short period of time. I get that.

What I don't get is how anyone could possibly believe this team, its coaches, its doctors, and its trainers willingly played a 35 year old bench player through an injury that can get worse or lead to other injuries.

Guessing its just people looking for someone or something to be mad at, instead of accepting that unlucky injuries just happen over the course of an 82 game season. And we seem to be catching a brunt of those this season, in comparison to everyone else.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Right.


I've been asking the same thing for weeks now. Why did they play an obviously hurt player, 35 year old player at that, for 5 games? I don't know, but it happened.

Good luck finding a 35 year old player, anywhere in the NBA, 60 games into the season, who DOESN'T have a sore SOMETHING. Literally. 95% of 35 year olds that play, are playing with something that doesn't feel 100%.

It's all about how sore, at the end of the day. That's a decision that is made and managed between the training staff and the player. Korver and the staff finally decided that the level of discomfort was where he needed some time off. And he took it.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Good luck finding a 35 year old player, anywhere in the NBA, 60 games into the season, who DOESN'T have a sore SOMETHING. Literally. 95% of 35 year olds that play, are playing with something that doesn't feel 100%.

It's all about how sore, at the end of the day. That's a decision that is made and managed between the training staff and the player. Korver and the staff finally decided that the level of discomfort was where he needed some time off. And he took it.

Also, and I believe someone has been mentioning this but I can't seem to remember who, but supposedly he has been having problems with his foot for a few seasons now...same foot he has a problem with now with us that's causing him to miss games right now.