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Frye to Suns 2/yr $3.8 mill (pg. 37)

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Prime 1978 said:
Beside's Ariza what marquee free agent has turned us down?
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Believe me, the last thing that I want to do is defend Ferry. That said, this offseason's FA market kinda sucked. Ariza, Artest, CV, Gordon. Those four were the cream of the crop. Boozer's opting in pretty much ruined CV for us. Gordon and Artest weren't realistic. Ariza was the only realistic target that the Cavs could've had. I'm actually glad that Ferry didn't panic and pursue Rasheed, Channing Frye, or Kleiza. I just don't want any of those guys on this team. Frye and Kleiza aren't very good and Sheed is far too flaky. At this point, unless an S&T could be worked out, I don't see anyone worth pursuing.
 
Wulfgar1224 said:
Believe me, the last thing that I want to do is defend Ferry. That said, this offseason's FA market kinda sucked. Ariza, Artest, CV, Gordon. Those four were the cream of the crop. Boozer's opting in pretty much ruined CV for us. Gordon and Artest weren't realistic. Ariza was the only realistic target that the Cavs could've had. I'm actually glad that Ferry didn't panic and pursue Rasheed, Channing Frye, or Kleiza. I just don't want any of those guys on this team. Frye and Kleiza aren't very good and Sheed is far too flaky. At this point, unless an S&T could be worked out, I don't see anyone worth pursuing.
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I think Kleiza would fit in nicely as a backup sf/pf. He's tough and can score. He reminds me of Andres Nocioni. I think he could fill Wally's role from last year very well!
 
Exactly why did we draft two young PF's last year if we're not going to give them any minutes?

Andy is going to be getting virtually all his minutes at the 4. If we want to see if either of our two young bigs are going to develop, then they need some available minutes to do that. Signing Frye would essentially have sucked up those minutes, and we'd then have three young PF's to develop at the same time. So I can see why Frye may not have been much of a priority. Joe Smith would be a nice vet fallback for those 12-15 minutes at the 4 if neither JJ or DJ shows anything.

And if for some reason we need to pick up a Channing Frye-quality big at the deadline because of injury, or because neither DJ nor JJ shows anything, I'm guessing that wouldn't be too difficult.
 
Smooth said:
For those guys complaining about the off-season thus far, I'd love to hear your plan to turn this team around (realistically)..

Bunch of armchair quarterbacks on this board...
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I am an armchair quarterback, just as Im sure you are when you talk cavs w/your buddies...

Here is a suggestion...

1. I would have waited on making the Shaq deal. Hold your chips to see what options may have come available through trades.

2. Move up in the draft. We need to start aquiring some young athletes on this team. I know this draft class appears weak, but Earl Clark would have been a really nice fit for our needs. If you stay at 30 (which we did) draft someone who can contribute!! Its not that hard. If we would have grabbed a Sam Young or Dejauin Blair maybe we dont have to blow our load on Andy, we would have gained even MORE leverage in dealing w/him. (yes, I know Lebron loves Andy, this is the only reason I could see us jumping the gun on him. I like Andy, but the signing to me looks like a team panicking because all their other FA targets went to the wayside) The draft thinking really blows my mind, probably the only thing I can fault Ferry for so far.

3. Find a target player(s). Someone who can contribute that you like as a GM and GET HIM. Don't sit around. This summer we needed to make an impact. With Wallace and Sasha as trading chips, plus our MLE you find your guy and figure out a way to make something happen.

***If the plan was to retain cap space for next year, fine. However, we were never sure we would have the cap space to do anything big next year when the market is going to be saturated with a lot more teams ready to spend. There were hardly any teams willing to spend in this weak FA period and we didnt really come away with the product Ferry was probably envisioning as home run impact off-season.

Mind you, if Shaq pans out and comes ready to f*** some Shit up, I'll retract my worrysome rant.

I like me some Ferry, just not sure if we accomplished what we set out to accomplish this summer.
 
"Losing" Frye to Phoenix is not that big of a deal. He was the fourth best big on a team admittedly deep in bigs. But some wanted him to start? I would anticipate the FO making some sort of deal. The season is still a couple months away, so we have time.
 
1. I would have waited on making the Shaq deal. Hold your chips to see what options may have come available through trades....

3. ....Find a target player(s). Someone who can contribute that you like as a GM and GET HIM. Don't sit around.

:confused:

If we would have grabbed a Sam Young or Dejauin Blair maybe we dont have to blow our load on Andy, we would have gained even MORE leverage in dealing w/him.

So....you're saying that Andy and Fegan would have reduced their asking price if we'd drafted Sam Young? You don't think drafting both Hickson and DJ last year filled that "there's a young guy who wants your job" slot?

Or are you saying that if we'd have drafted Young, we could have blown Andy off because Young could have been our starting 4?
 
LukeWitte said:
1. I would have waited on making the Shaq deal. Hold your chips to see what options may have come available through trades....

3. ....Find a target player(s). Someone who can contribute that you like as a GM and GET HIM. Don't sit around.

:confused:

If we would have grabbed a Sam Young or Dejauin Blair maybe we dont have to blow our load on Andy, we would have gained even MORE leverage in dealing w/him.

So....you're saying that Andy and Fegan would have reduced their asking price if we'd drafted Sam Young? You don't think drafting both Hickson and DJ last year filled that "there's a young guy who wants your job" slot?

Or are you saying that if we'd have drafted Young, we could have blown Andy off because Young could have been our starting 4?
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What I meant by my 3rd point was:

Pick a player you want to aquire through FA and/or Trade that will contribute to this team for more than a year. If Ferry really felt like Shaq is the number one option, then fine. However, I would have really surveyed the field to bring in someone that could contribute for more than a year. I just don't get the feeling Ferry and his staff sat down and said, "ok, lets go get this guy whatever it takes". That's my point.

and to address the Draft:

I probably should have clarified that the statement COULD HAVE played a role in what we did with Andy. If we would have drafted a player that could contribute in one of our needed spots then perhaps we don't have to sign Andy like our hair is on fire. Yes we have JJ and DJ, but these dudes are by no means Lottery picks. I'm not going to say we are safe at PF because we have not one, but two projects in that position. You draft young talent for many reasons, I just listed one. Another thing they could have concentrated on is drafting the best player available in the hopes that he can contribute or turns into a valuable trade piece in a couple years. EYENGA is YEARS away from even sniffing an NBA Locker room. This does nothing for our "impact" off-season. That was my point.

Now, to digress....If the Eyenga pick was made because the FO is positive Lebron is staying long-term then I understand.

Hope that clears some things up, I tend to think faster than I type.
 
I just don't get the feeling Ferry and his staff sat down and said, "ok, lets go get this guy whatever it takes". That's my point.

Thank god they didn't. "Whatever it takes" is a ridiculous standard to use in getting a player because you may end up giving up more than you gained, and making your team worse.

If we would have drafted a player that could contribute in one of our needed spots then perhaps we don't have to sign Andy like our hair is on fire. Yes we have JJ and DJ, but these dudes are by no means Lottery picks.

This was a very weak draft, and at the least, Hickson is a lot closer to being a lottery pick than Young. So I'm still not understanding the Young thing at all. As for trading up, again, it was a weak draft, and the FO clearly didn't think it would have been worth the cost.

Another thing they could have concentrated on is drafting the best player available in the hopes that he can contribute or turns into a valuable trade piece in a couple years. EYENGA is YEARS away from even sniffing an NBA Locker room. This does nothing for our "impact" off-season.

Here is something to consider. Great athletes -- the guys with high ceilings -- get drafted in the lottery if they've got demonstrated skills. The Cavs don't figure to be in the lottery again for a long time. So if we're not going to be drafting in the lottery, how are we ever going to get a shot at a great athlete?

The answer is by taking a project athlete later in the draft. If the kid would help you in the next year or so, he'd have gone in the lottery and you couldn't have drafted him. Kids that low in the draft are hit or miss anyway. Hell, kids higher than that in the draft, except the top guys, are hit or miss. No guarantee that a guy drafted at 30 is even going to be on the roster. So we decided not to go for the low ceiling guy with a higher chance of making the team. Instead, we took a shot on exceptional athleticism that, unless we draft it late in the form of a project player like Eyenga, we wouldn't be able to sniff otherwise.
 
.... I just don't get the feeling Ferry and his staff sat down and said, "ok, lets go get this guy whatever it takes". That's my point.


Respectfully, I think that is the WRONG strategy. ID a free agent and get him "whatever it takes" is the quickest way to cap jail and reaks of panic. Paying over market value will get your guy NOW, but it is usually regretable. You see this year after year, especially in the NFL. This may be a more valid consideration for weak teams who need to overpay for a Star simply to put fannies in the seats (Shawn Kemp comes to mind), but I don't think is a move for a Championship caliber team.

Instead, gauge the market, ascribe market values to the FA, and get your guy within that value. If you miss on one, move to the next, but never overpay. Deal from strengh, not panic. Never* "whatever it takes".

(* NOTE: does not apply to SuperDDuperStar like LBJ. Then, whatever it takes)
 
I have to aggree with some of the others... this off season sucks :( I dont think the sky is falling or anything, but every time it looks like we're going after someone, we dont get them. Its just kind of dissapointing that we've missed out on like 5-6 guys that could definetely help this team. Hopefully Ferry has a Plan G and its a decent one...
 
LukeWitte said:
I just don't get the feeling Ferry and his staff sat down and said, "ok, lets go get this guy whatever it takes". That's my point.

Thank god they didn't. "Whatever it takes" is a ridiculous standard to use in getting a player because you may end up giving up more than you gained, and making your team worse.

If we would have drafted a player that could contribute in one of our needed spots then perhaps we don't have to sign Andy like our hair is on fire. Yes we have JJ and DJ, but these dudes are by no means Lottery picks.

This was a very weak draft, and at the least, Hickson is a lot closer to being a lottery pick than Young. So I'm still not understanding the Young thing at all. As for trading up, again, it was a weak draft, and the FO clearly didn't think it would have been worth the cost.

Another thing they could have concentrated on is drafting the best player available in the hopes that he can contribute or turns into a valuable trade piece in a couple years. EYENGA is YEARS away from even sniffing an NBA Locker room. This does nothing for our "impact" off-season.

Here is something to consider. Great athletes -- the guys with high ceilings -- get drafted in the lottery if they've got demonstrated skills. The Cavs don't figure to be in the lottery again for a long time. So if we're not going to be drafting in the lottery, how are we ever going to get a shot at a great athlete?

The answer is by taking a project athlete later in the draft. If the kid would help you in the next year or so, he'd have gone in the lottery and you couldn't have drafted him. Kids that low in the draft are hit or miss anyway. Hell, kids higher than that in the draft, except the top guys, are hit or miss. No guarantee that a guy drafted at 30 is even going to be on the roster. So we decided not to go for the low ceiling guy with a higher chance of making the team. Instead, we took a shot on exceptional athleticism that, unless we draft it late in the form of a project player like Eyenga, we wouldn't be able to sniff otherwise.
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CruiserNFL said:
.... I just don't get the feeling Ferry and his staff sat down and said, "ok, lets go get this guy whatever it takes". That's my point.


Respectfully, I think that is the WRONG strategy. ID a free agent and get him "whatever it takes" is the quickest way to cap jail and reaks of panic. Paying over market value will get your guy NOW, but it is usually regretable. You see this year after year, especially in the NFL. This may be a more valid consideration for weak teams who need to overpay for a Star simply to put fannies in the seats (Shawn Kemp comes to mind), but I don't think is a move for a Championship caliber team.

Instead, gauge the market, ascribe market values to the FA, and get your guy within that value. If you miss on one, move to the next, but never overpay. Deal from strengh, not panic. Never* "whatever it takes".

(* NOTE: does not apply to SuperDDuperStar like LBJ. Then, whatever it takes)
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I understand where you guys are coming from. Im very aware of the lack of talent in the draft, the lack of talent in FA, and the idea that we shouldnt "overspend" on a guy.

I guess we just view things differently. My opinion is that if we only compare this offseason to what we have done in offseason's passed, then we did a great job. However, we just are not hitting a "home run" in my opinion. "whatever it takes" to me, means you outline a plan, and you hit the home run. If the intention was to borrow shaq for a year and to add a role player here and there then I am happy, mission accomplished. But, if the plan was to rock the NBA world, then I can't say that that has happened, sorry. And from what I've read from Windy and W/G and from the way Ferry has spoken before the off-season started is seems like a home run was a lot more likely than a role player and borrow-a-shaq.

To be clear, I LIKE the moves we've made, I'm just confused as to what our intentions were for the off-season.
 
bucksprime99 said:
People who think THIS offseason sucks haven't been Cavs fans very long...
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Jesus yes...

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2001-2002 What a great year. Bryan Stith, Lamond Murray, RICKY DAVIS, and the Coup D'etat

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