Jason Lloyd: Major Roster Shakeup in Next 3 Weeks

[OptimusPrime]

I'm imagining this team with a good off-ball player replacing Waiters and I don't see it turning out much better. Off-ball players require a functioning offense to be effective, as we're seeing with Deng. This team needs a real head coach and/or a real PG.

Off ball players, or at least the players people think we need around Kyrie, need someone not only to pass them the ball, but to create the shot for them by drawing the defense to them and then making the pass. They will be sorely disappointed while they are out there waiting for that to happen. Not to mention come playoff time when Kyrie is being locked down by elite defenses, spot up shooters aren't going to bail the team out. Playmakers will. Guys that have the skill set Waiters has. Does Waiters need to grow up? Absolutely. Does he need to get more consistent with shot and learn how to finish through contact? Of course. Does he need to take better shots? Yes. Are those things you can learn? Yes. Is his court vision and first step something you can learn? Nope. Can he learn those things being played 20 minutes a game, out of position, away from what is supposed to be the core of the team, for a guy with no set offense and pulls him off the floor for any kind of mistake?

 

[OptimusPrime]

If we had Bradley Beal instead of Waiters, this team would be in the 8th seed right now? I don't think so.

It wouldn't be any better than it is now.

 

[Tlyons]

I see T.T having value and I see teams willing to gamble on Dion. Some coaches like Offensive ball handlers and some teams will see and deal with Dions attitude and If he goes to a team ala Harden where he could have the keys to the car I am sure we could get good value for him. I could see Philly, MIl, Even the Lakers as a spot for him. the problem Is you would have to sell. There are not many players to buy and the ones that are I do not think T.T and Dion alone even with a future first would do It.

Keys to the car? Dion?

Kyrie is the only player on this team who could get keys to anything.

Dion? Lucky to get the combination to a mountain bike lock.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Off ball players, or at least the players people think we need around Kyrie, need someone not only to pass them the ball, but to create the shot for them by drawing the defense to them and then making the pass. They will be sorely disappointed while they are out there waiting for that to happen.

Kyrie seems pretty willing to do that for Miles.

 

[OptimusPrime]

Kyrie seems pretty willing to do that for Miles.

Surely you have some proof of this. I'm sure he did it once or twice, but I bet Dion has as many if not more passes leading to open 3s for Miles and they rarely played together.

 

[Nathan S]

Surely you have some proof of this. I'm sure he did it once or twice, but I bet Dion has as many if not more passes leading to open 3s for Miles and they rarely played together.

This is something that can be answered objectively.

Miles has made 19 threes so far this season while on the court with Dion, and Dion assisted on 6 of them.

Miles has made 39 threes so far this season while on the court with Kyrie, and Kyrie assisted on 18 of them.

I think we can all agree that Kyrie is more comfortable passing outside-in at this point in his career, while Dion shows great feel driving and kicking. Just 21% of Kyrie's assists come on three pointers, compared to 33% for Dion. However, the hyperbole that Kyrie is a chucker who ignores open shooters and is incapable of running an offense needs to die.

 

[KI4MVP]

This is something that can be answered objectively.

Miles has made 19 threes so far this season while on the court with Dion, and Dion assisted on 6 of them.

Miles has made 38 threes so far this season while on the court with Kyrie, and Kyrie assisted on 18 of them.

I think we can all agree that Kyrie is more comfortable passing outside-in at this point in his career, while Dion shows great feel driving and kicking. Just 21% of Kyrie's assists come on three pointers, compared to 33% for Dion. However, the hyperbole that Kyrie is a chucker who ignores open shooters and is incapable of running an offense needs to die.

where do you get these stats and do you have minutes totals for those two pairs?

 

[Nathan S]

where do you get these stats and do you have minutes totals for those two pairs?

nbawowy.com (thanks to tornicade/troll)

1. Select which players on court/off court (in this case Kyrie and Miles on court) and hit submit.

When it finishes running (takes like 15 seconds on my computer) you should see a bunch of tabs to choose from. The currently selected one (shooting) is what we need for this particular purpose.

The column headers are all arcane-looking acronyms, but you can scroll over them to get a description in real English. This particular header, for instance, means that the following column tells you what percentage of each player's two point field goals were assisted (when both Kyrie and CJ were on the court).

Scroll a little further to see "3-pt assist details"

Find CJ in the list of players, and you can see who all assisted his 3 pointers

 

[daytripper]

I was listening to Fox Sports radio out here in L.A. Adrian Wojnarowski was on a few hours ago and didn't expect any big deals at the deadline which contradicts Chad Ford. He said of course anything could happen but at this point there are teams that are sellers but not many buyers. He mentioned the 2 New York teams as the most serious buyers at this point but neither team has great assets to deal. Not Cavs related but he was even doubtful Pau Gasol gets dealt since he didn't see Phoenix or any other team giving up a first round pick for him.

 

[KI4MVP]

Nathan, thanks for the link.

I decided to look into some of the myths going around here. Two in particular

Myth 1 - Kyrie and Dion only play together 5 minutes/game

Reality: Kyrie and Dion have played 740 minutes together (an average of 18 minutes/game in the 40 games they've both played). Dion actually plays significantly more minutes with Kyrie than without him.

Myth 2 - Dion passes to Kyrie more than Kyrie passes to Dion.

Reality: While they are on the court together, 31% of Kyrie's assists are to Dion while just 18% of Dion's assists are to Kyrie. Kyrie also has nearly 2x the assist (111 to 60), which he should because he is the better ball handler and passer. Despite Dion having the ball for fewer possessions, they have an equal number of turnovers while they are on the court together because 11.3% of Dion's possessions end in turnovers, 8.6% of Kyrie's end in turnovers.

 

[Snarly]

I have come to the point this whole season at the trade deadline reminds me of the South Park episode where Cartman joins nascar. It Is like Browns defense Is Obama and his Offense Is "Dribble down and pass to the left" That Is gay as hell... Pisses me off.

 

[GreasySpread36]

Re: Jason Llyod: Major Roster Shakeup in Next 3 Weeks

I don't know where I stand about trading him or not, but he plays with way more heart than Kyrie.

Just because Dion looks angry a lot and beats his chest a lot doesn't mean he has more "heart" than anyone else.

 

[Snarly]

Re: Jason Llyod: Major Roster Shakeup in Next 3 Weeks

Just because Dion looks angry a lot and beats his chest a lot doesn't mean he has more "heart" than anyone else.

Kevin Garnett would like to have a word with you.

 

[GreasySpread36]

Re: Jason Llyod: Major Roster Shakeup in Next 3 Weeks

Kevin Garnett would like to have a word with you.

And Larry Bird would like to have a word with you. There's more than one way to show intensity and heart.

Anyway, Dion's heart doesn't particularly interest me. Him feeling mistreated doesn't interest me either. My only interest re: Dion is whether or not he's an asset to this organization. If he's more of a liability than an asset he needs to go. He isn't good enough to get away with being a pain in the rear, frankly.

And this has nothing to do with Kyrie, either. Kyrie has his own issues. And if he's more of a liability than an asset he needs to go as well.

 

[Brandon Price]

This is something that can be answered objectively.

Miles has made 19 threes so far this season while on the court with Dion, and Dion assisted on 6 of them.

Miles has made 39 threes so far this season while on the court with Kyrie, and Kyrie assisted on 18 of them.

I think we can all agree that Kyrie is more comfortable passing outside-in at this point in his career, while Dion shows great feel driving and kicking. Just 21% of Kyrie's assists come on three pointers, compared to 33% for Dion. However, the hyperbole that Kyrie is a chucker who ignores open shooters and is incapable of running an offense needs to die.

Solid reply. And it will be ignored, because a small and very vocal segment of Cavs Nation is in love with a guy who scowls after dunks when we're down 20 with five minutes left.