JR Smith

[JMoneyYourHoney]

Again, the point isn't JR Smith. The people who are saying "but JR was a turd!" are completely missing the boat (though they're probably used to that). When a team dicks over a player, that behavior isn't going to be lost on other players on the team, or players around the league, or agents. That's the issue.

JR dicked the Cavs over multiple times. He, LeBron and Klutch strong-armed them into giving him a contract he didn't deserve and which he at no point lived up to. He forgot the score of a FINALS game. He badmouthed our 19-year old rookie point guard and openly questioned the organization's direction, thereby creating/fostering a toxic environment.

The Cavs did right by D-Wade by trading him back to Miami for a measly 2nd-rounder. They did right by K-Love by giving him a generous extension for being a good soldier for the organization.

Waiving an uncooperative, malcontent JR to reset the repeater tax isn't going to engender hostility towards the organization. It might even be construed as an act of goodwill if wants to play for the Lakers (and they want him, of course.)

 

[Cavatt]

They've had plenty of opportunities to trade him; they've just chosen not to do so. Don't want to divulge protected content here, but I'm sure you saw that too.

Again, the point isn't JR Smith. The people who are saying "but JR was a turd!" are completely missing the boat (though they're probably used to that). When a team dicks over a player, that behavior isn't going to be lost on other players on the team, or players around the league, or agents. That's the issue.

Yeah I just meant that no one wanted to trade for him to play for them like at the trade deadline. JR is loved by our fans, but even players around the league think he is a knucklehead.

 

[sailfish]

JR dicked the Cavs over multiple times. He, LeBron and Klutch strong-armed them into giving him a contract he didn't deserve and which he at no point lived up to. He forgot the score of a FINALS game. He badmouthed our 19-year old rookie point guard and openly questioned the organization's direction, thereby creating/fostering a toxic environment.

The Cavs did right by D-Wade by trading him back to Miami for a measly 2nd-rounder. They did right by K-Love by giving him a generous extension for being a good soldier for the organization.

Waiving an uncooperative, malcontent JR to reset the repeater tax isn't going to engender hostility towards the organization. It might even be construed as an act of goodwill if wants to play for the Lakers (and they want him, of course.)

The Cavs basically gave D-Wade back to Miami by trading him for a highly protected second round pick, which is unlikely to ever convey.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

They've had plenty of opportunities to trade him; they've just chosen not to do so. Don't want to divulge protected content here, but I'm sure you saw that too.

Again, the point isn't JR Smith. The people who are saying "but JR was a turd!" are completely missing the boat (though they're probably used to that). When a team dicks over a player, that behavior isn't going to be lost on other players on the team, or players around the league, or agents. That's the issue.

The disconnect here is that you see him as being "dicked over", and some others - me included - don't.

If players want to have more control over their own fate, they should just sign shorter term deals.

 

[CavsFanJapan]

The Cavs basically gave D-Wade back to Miami by trading him for a highly protected second round pick, which is unlikely to ever convey.

Doesn't matter anymore, that pick was traded draft night in the Porter Jr. trade.

 

[Man Called X]

They've had plenty of opportunities to trade him; they've just chosen not to do so. Don't want to divulge protected content here, but I'm sure you saw that too.

Again, the point isn't JR Smith. The people who are saying "but JR was a turd!" are completely missing the boat (though they're probably used to that). When a team dicks over a player, that behavior isn't going to be lost on other players on the team, or players around the league, or agents. That's the issue.

While I agree, to be fair. After Gilbert's letter, Kyle Lowry talked all kinds of shit that he'd never sign for an owner like that. It was less than 2 seasons later that he signed an offer sheet with the Cavs that was eventually matched. But money talks, bullshit walks.

 

[inliner311]

Could JR be traded into someone's caps space? If so the Lakers could trade us for JR to flip so they can use the 125% rule to get closer to gaining a max slot in a sign and trade. On the Cavs side they can give us an asset but it doesn't have to be an amazing asset because there isn't a contract coming back. We actually have more room to work before hitting luxury tax compared to just waiving him and we get a trade exception that can be used later for another asset.

 

[Cavatt]

Could JR be traded into someone's caps space? If so the Lakers could trade us for JR to flip so they can use the 125% rule to get closer to gaining a max slot in a sign and trade. On the Cavs side they can give us an asset but it doesn't have to be an amazing asset because there isn't a contract coming back. We actually have more room to work before hitting luxury tax compared to just waiving him and we get a trade exception that can be used later for another asset.

No idea, but it's interesting. Problem is there is probably no time for that now.

 

[Ozone]

I'm quoting your post because it is the most recent example I've seen of this thinking. That said -- I want to be clear that many others have expressed this same thought, and I am not picking on you specifically.

With that out of the way, I have to say that the "Cavs got KPJ, so they don't have to use the JR contract" line of thinking makes zero sense to me. It's not either-or. It should be both. Let's use every asset at our disposal to build the best team possible. If we happen to get a break, then it means that "the best team possible" just got better ... not that we can slack off.

Sure, it's great that the Cavs got a nice surprise by being able to trade some spare second rounders and then take KPJ at the end of the first round ... but that doesn't excuse them for letting the JR contract (which is a nice asset) expire without being used. I get that they want to avoid the luxury tax for next season, but they have 10 months to make other moves before the tax is determined.

Atlanta recently got two first-round picks for taking Allen Crabbe off the Nets' hands. If the Cavs can't get a return approaching that (and I would bet they can, especially as free agency nears and teams are panicking to create cap space), and just let JR go instead, then they've failed.

yeah I mean it would be great if they still get something for Smith, but I think the willingness to go heavy in the tax for a draft pick at this point seems unlikely.

 

[petes999]

I assume everyone has seen the PD article

Cleveland Cavaliers turned down JR Smith offers on draft night, could end up releasing him before Sunday

While the odds of a trade have reduced, there’s still time. The Cavs have until June 30, to be exact.

www.cleveland.com

Yet, I don’t get the cost of stretch... okay if Cleveland was to continue being close to the luxury tax.. Yet, will adding $5 mill in 2020 and 2021 by stretching hurt us? Basically, the decision is same as always

Will cash spent <= intrinsic value of potential 1st
$5 million plus 3 late 2nds < 30th pick value (thus took it)
$12-$15 million > mid-first value in poor draft (thus skipped it) — yet may be worth it in a deeper draft

The question should be if we buy a pick at proper valuation with JR or other expiring assets... comes down to two decisions
1) JR trade now and extend.... so spend $15 million on scrub next year in cash less $3.5 million we would have paid JR = mid to early-late first. (Extra Cap hit is 1.5 this year + $5 million in 2020 + $5 million in 2021 with stretch).

2) Trade Triston next year on expiring deal
a) if injured, (assuming no value like JR), we would need to eat $11.5 million in 2020 contract to get same pick ... cap hit would be ...assuming same 2019 salaries is $0 in 2019, $11.5 in 2020 and $0 in 2021). ... Note, for illustration purposes, I am assuming same money spent ... so cap hit is same over 3 years. Does it really hurt us?
b) if healthy, Cavs are betting on better pick or less salary need to be eaten for taking back a scrub .... could just trade TT and/or Clarkson for injured players about to expire to get picks (how much who knows)

My point is luxury tax is not the issue... issue is
1) are they getting good value back
2) are they more willing to trade expiring talent to contenders for picks than take back bad contracts (thus tank next year).
3) how much is Gilbert (or now confidant in charge) willing to spend? Yet, note, we do have to reach 90% minimum one way or another.

In my opinion, you do both to accumulate as many future picks to trade for talent (with young contracts and picks) when time comes like Toronto and Phili as stars won’t come here on their own. This avoids overspending on mid-tier FAs...

 

[inliner311]

No idea, but it's interesting. Problem is there is probably no time for that now.

There is 5 days till free agency starts so something could still go down. I think the Lakers screwed up their cap and could be trying all options to get out of it. More I think about it, it would be closer to the Chris Paul opt in and trade to Houston than anything else. The Lakers really don't have many assets left to deal.

 

[sailfish]

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/rick_bonnell/status/1143628963409010690
View: https://mobile.twitter.com/rick_bonnell/status/1143651268122075137

 

[Funkmastabuck]

Hornets would be an ideal trade partner. If Kemba leaves, a 1st round pick is easily in the lotto.

And those bad contracts are only for 1 season.

 

[Green Lantern]

First, it's '' No one will play for the Cavs because of Gilbert's letter to Lebron, now it's how the Cavs supposedly screwed around JR.
Really?
Dude has become unglued since they won the title..and multiple things have happened(maybe some forget???) with him..
I know about some of the trade stuff, but fact is this isn't going to convince players that the Cavs are a bad organization.
I really don't need to hear a pity party. about JR..I like him when he was his best ,but now he's fallen off...just do what needs to be done to rebuild the team.

 

[WorldFreeB]

Hornets would be an ideal trade partner. If Kemba leaves, a 1st round pick is easily in the lotto.

And those bad contracts are only for 1 season.

I assume there would be protections on that pick. What would that be top 10?