Mike Brown Hired as Head Coach

[KI4MVP]

^^ People already wonder what would have happened in 2010-11 had we kept Mike Brown instead of hiring a coach that scrapped his defense.

 

[Rondo]

Here's my biggest question to RCF. I think it's pretty universally acceptable to say that Byron wasn't put in a favorable situation to succeed.

There were reasons for and against keeping Byron, but we can all universally agree that he was dealt a very shitty hand.

If Mike Brown doesn't pan out, will people always wonder what would have happened had Byron been given the 2013 season to prove himself? Was he canned pre-maturely? Will people be asking this again someday?




I guess what I'm saying is, Byron was not given the opportunity to prove himself with a full compliment of players.

Make no mistake about it, if Anderson Varejao plays this whole season Byron Scott would still be our head coach.

I personally do not think the Cavaliers did their due diligence in our coaching search. Chris Grant went with the safest pick in Mike Brown, I believe because he's looking out for his own job (Grant).

If this Mike Brown thing doesn't work out again, will people re-hash the fact that Byron didn't get a fair chance to prove himself? Byron clearly took his foot off of the gas, but there was little he could have done to significantly improve our record.

There are two sides to every coin. Clearly Mike Brown has some things that Byron doesn't, but the same can be said the other way around. I don't think Byron Scott is a bad coach, he was just put in a terrible situation (by Grant) and became the scapegoat here.

Byron Scott was terrible last season. Even when we had Andy, we were still losing a ton of games. He was given a fair chance to prove himself. All he had to do was take a few steps forward each season. The first season after Lebron left, we were terrible. When we got Kyrie and TT, the team improved a little bit. This year, we regressed. When that happens, it is time for a culture change. Whatever Byron was doing (if he was doing anything) wasn't working.

Now that Mike Brown is back we know what we are getting. With Byron we still had no idea after 3 seasons. It was time for him to go.

 

[Anglefan]

I think Byron Scott is a bad, lazy coach who was given a chance to show he was such and that's why he was let go.

 

[Kovah]

I put together an MB wallpaper in my little honeymoon phase yesterday evening. I've heard the slogan is terrible and the obvious style will be sure to repulse some. I couldn't help the nostalgia. Perhaps someone will like it regardless:

I know where he got that from

 

[Cavatt]

In the Mike Brown press conference they kept emphasizing "a guy that will work hard". They didn't feel like Byron was following his own advice about working hard every day. To me that is the one thing that is not forgivable. It has been a major criticism of him throughout his career, so I doubt that the Cavs just made it up. He didn't want to be in Cleveland anymore and Brown does.

I am not the biggest Brown supporter, but he always overachieved with his teams. All you have to ask is talent level on the 66 Cavs win team and the talent on the 66 win Heat team. The Cavs had no business seeing the Spurs in the finals, had no business taking the championship Celtics to within 5 points in 7 games. I still think the Orlando series was a bit of a fluke despite Browns poor adjustments. None of those guys are any good anymore, and couldn't shoot for shit on the Lakers.

I think the jump next year is going to be big. I'm actually a big advocate of trading the 2014 pick because I think another team will overvalue it. They are likely to think mid-lottery, but I don't have any doubts that the Cavs will compete for a playoff spot higher than the 8th seed. The East is just too weak. It depends of course on chemistry and the players buying into Brown's system.

 

[Frank Reynolds]

My biggest problem with Mike is that he can be annoying and the players tune him out. He's going to be on these kids, every single day.

Camp Scott is nothing compared to Mike's detailed breakdowns of things day in and day out. I'm sure our youngsters need to learn these things, but it's not going to be easy. It's probably going to be a serious challenge for these young guys to learn this level of detail.

They have never seen anybody that's as thorough as Mike Brown. He's going to nit pick them to death, it's going to be a serious wake up call.

I just hope our young guys afford Mike the opportunity to prove that he's got a plan. It's going to be tough for these players to see the grand plan, particularly Kyrie, who prizes his own scoring ability over all else, particularly defense.

Mike could teach these guys to win, he really could show them the door and teach them the lesson of what it really takes to have continued success in the league.

Cavatt you are absolutely right in that Byron was hypocritical in the fact that he didn't work as hard as he should, and that might have rubbed off on the players to a certain extent. I personally felt that Byron was too easy on Kyrie, he was too much of a friend to Kyrie.

Mike is not going to be Kyrie's friend. I don't even think Mike Brown realizes how talented our youngsters are, but he's going to stay on them. Whether he gets the same respect as Byron is yet to be seen.

Dan and Chris are viewing this as: the youngsters need to get un-comfortable.. Once they start winning, they will warm to Mike Brown. At first, it's going to be a serious wake-up call though, particularly to Irving.

Kyrie's the man to get buckets, so it's a serious conflict of interests. I tend to believe that Kyrie thinks that it's his "bucket getting" that's going to win us games, not Mike Brown's detailed breakdowns.

 

[The Oi]

Frank,

I often wonder how exactly you come up with your knowledge of the inner-workings of strangers minds. :chuckles:

 

[supergoat52]

I think the jump next year is going to be big. I'm actually a big advocate of trading the 2014 pick because I think another team will overvalue it. They are likely to think mid-lottery, but I don't have any doubts that the Cavs will compete for a playoff spot higher than the 8th seed. The East is just too weak. It depends of course on chemistry and the players buying into Brown's system.

I think this is a great idea. A further advantage would be that it would emphatically kill the tank, and everyone could get behind a winning culture. If we can trade our unprotected first next year for a top 5 this year i think i would do it, then make the playoffs and win the trade.

 

[oasis05]

If you were the suns would you trade the 4th pick for the cavs 2014 pick? Could put us in position to get Porter and Len.

 

[Jack Brickman]

I think this is a great idea. A further advantage would be that it would emphatically kill the tank, and everyone could get behind a winning culture. If we can trade our unprotected first next year for a top 5 this year i think i would do it, then make the playoffs and win the trade.

Absolutely no way would I trade an unprotected pick in next year's draft in anything other than a trade for a legitimate superstar. Too much can go wrong and it would be entirely too Cleveland for us to trade away the pick that became Andrew Wiggins. Any pick we trade in next year's draft needs to be at least top one protected, and preferably top three or five.

 

[Frank Reynolds]

Frank,

I often wonder exactly you come up with your knowledge of the inner-workings of strangers minds. :chuckles:

You're not the first person to tell me this. Psych major here. I can only hypothesize and tell it like I see it.

I make educated guesses based on the Cavalier's past history of wrongdoings, star player(s)' demeanors, personality conflicts on the team, as well as general bucket getting ability vs the coach's master game plan.

In a sense Jigo, I'm kinda like this guy.

[video=youtube;3Xh-NHqQQIs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Xh-NHqQQIs[/video]

If you can make buckets like this guy, you'll probably look past your coach's game plan, but that's not a good thing. I think Mike Brown loses a lot of his players trust at the most crucial times. Mike was the next logical step for us, but I hope we're not fixated on him. I hope the GM and Dan keep an eye on this guy at all times and not just hand him their blind trust. There have been some very legitimate gripes with Mike Brown in the past and that trust-loss is the beginning of the end for a team, particularly when the coach loses the ears of the best player....

 

[Cavatt]

Absolutely no way would I trade an unprotected pick in next year's draft in anything other than a trade for a legitimate superstar. Too much can go wrong and it would be entirely too Cleveland for us to trade away the pick that became Andrew Wiggins. Any pick we trade in next year's draft needs to be at least top one protected, and preferably top three or five.

Yep, this is the mistake the Clippers made. You never know what can happen, and especially the way a team can be hit with injuries could derail the playoff push next year. Like you say though, I could see giving the pick up unprotected for a legit star. Otherwise you have to do minimal protection.

 

[billmac91]

Here's my biggest question to RCF. I think it's pretty universally acceptable to say that Byron wasn't put in a favorable situation to succeed.

There were reasons for and against keeping Byron, but we can all universally agree that he was dealt a very shitty hand.

If Mike Brown doesn't pan out, will people always wonder what would have happened had Byron been given the 2013 season to prove himself? Was he canned pre-maturely? Will people be asking this again someday?




I guess what I'm saying is, Byron was not given the opportunity to prove himself with a full compliment of players.

Make no mistake about it, if Anderson Varejao plays this whole season Byron Scott would still be our head coach.

I personally do not think the Cavaliers did their due diligence in our coaching search. Chris Grant went with the safest pick in Mike Brown, I believe because he's looking out for his own job (Grant).

If this Mike Brown thing doesn't work out again, will people re-hash the fact that Byron didn't get a fair chance to prove himself? Byron clearly took his foot off of the gas, but there was little he could have done to significantly improve our record.

There are two sides to every coin. Clearly Mike Brown has some things that Byron doesn't, but the same can be said the other way around. I don't think Byron Scott is a bad coach, he was just put in a terrible situation (by Grant) and became the scapegoat here.

I think you're missing the overall picture of how this all went down. A few things:

-Mike Brown was hired well before anyone is leading on out of respect for Byron Scott

-Byron Scott was finished as the Cavaliers coach a quarter into the season
*Grant and Gilbert were not impressed with the work ethic of Scott or the on court strategies being utilized by Scott
*Scott probably back-filled the worst possible coach in his case, a guy who lived and breathed his job the way most professional head coaches do
*Scott actually opened the eyes of Gilbert and Grant to the work-ethic and drive of Mike Brown.

-If Byron Scott was showing anything, anything at all, in regards to play-calling, game management, scouting, player development, work ethic, and most importantly improved team defense he could still be employed.....he had every chance to be the Cavs coach another season. As it stands, his assistants are responsible for nearly all development while Byron managed from an authoritative position with a heavy hand but little leadership.

- The development of Kyrie's defense as well as the team, was a final breaking point. The effort was embarrassing. Which leads to this...
*Does Scott not know how to teach on ball defense?
*Does Kyrie respect what Scott is trying to teach?
* Arguably, both of the above scenarios are equally as bad
*Based off of the previous 3 seasons, Grant and Gilbert had had enough, which is why Brown was hired well before anyone knew

-Grant and Gilbert would not have fired Byron Scott without their coach-in-waiting signed off.
*Any rumors outside of Mike Brown were for show
*As bad as Byron proved to be, nobody wanted to show him up and Mike Brown doesn't want to be seen as a guy stealing someones job
*The last thing Gilbert would have done, is put himself in a position where a guy like Tom Izzo, Brian Shaw, etc. could publically turn him down
*Phil Jackson was THE PERFECT diversion for how the situation went down. Nobody expected him to have interest in the job

-Chris Grant is not worried about his job one bit and has 100000% support from Gilbert

-Due diligence is subjective here. After 3 years of Byron Scott, both Gilbert and Grant were in agreement this team needed a defensive overhaul. Scott was done after this seaon no matter what. Once Mike Brown hit the open-market early this season, the Cavs had him wrapped up relatively quickly. They knew if they wanted to become a team that hung their hat on defense, there was no better option than Mike Brown so they sewed it up quickly in-season.

-With this season being predicated on driving the tank, there was zero reason to fire Scott mid-season. The idea all along was to be very gentle with the core players in regards to injuries and minutes, and coax this team to a high lottery pick.
*The amount of overhaul this team needs, it really made little sense to fire Scott in-season

-Again, I will reiterate, Byron didn't lose this job because of his record. He lost this job because defensive principals were left wayside, our offesnive schemes didn't show any promise at all, and in tight situations, this staff put the team in awful positions to succeed.

-Byron is what he is. His style wasn't successful at all. He motivated through playing time, media call-outs, and verbally. Problem is, he didn't teach on the backend. Telling someone their defense sucks without proper guidance doesn't fix anything. I think Byron's style would work better with a veteran team that has proven they understand the fundamentals of playing in the NBA. With a young team that needs a ton of guidance of teaching, his style was brutal.

Again, as I've stated in previous posts, I'm not huge on the Mike Brown hire because I don't believe his style is conducive to winning championships. It's way to fixed in its approach and inflexible to change. However, that type of structure is exactly what this young team needs. It needs a defensive system installed and someone who is willing to teach every basic principal from the top down. It isn't enough to have an assistant coach working late hours on individual development. This team needs a guy who holds everyone acountable to the same standards he holds himself too. The old "lead by example" motto fits here.

 

[oasis05]

Yeah what if the cavs don't get Irving if the clippers kept protection on their pick? Very important to get that number one.

 

[KilgoreTrout]

Re: Lloyd: Mike Brown expected to be announced as head coach tomorrow

I feel ill.